Actors Bashing Joss

[Uncle Rory]

Either you respect him for his honesty or lose respect for his raggin on the creative team.

Without really taking sides here - and Edmund will swear that I'm probably the least likely person on the site to back him up BUT ..... the above quote is ONE of many faults in the logic of the whole thread - and a lot of people have weighed in here so just because I have made a quote I think it's indicative of the thread and of many opinions on this site. It's that it's all BLACK and WHITE, either or, and as soon as you tell me that there are only two ways to look at a particular issue I will always 100% guarantee run out and find you a third, fourth and fifth possibility.

Fact - If they gave the Kid the role then they obviously had some confidence in his abilities. If he was uncomfortable with the role then that's "Smoke." So where is the fire? In the fact that they NEVER bothered to develop the character and, like this thread, he just went around and around; interesting to watch (or read) but maybe not so much fun to do if your artistic urge as an actor is to create a "Real or realistic" character.

Fact - Famous folks get misquoted, misinterpreted and have their words taken out of context.

Fact - The written word is one dimensional communication. We do not see the body language that would help us distinguish whether he was laughingly commenting on his take on the role or angrily complaining about the role. Combine that with taking his words out of context and this is where "YOUR" i(general - anyone) interpretation comes in. And where personal preferences and prejudices come into play. It's not so much "HOW" someone says something it's how the listener "decides" to take it.

Fact - Good art, particularly film and literature show characters that could be real and / or characters who grow and change or evolve - (these points have been discussed on other threads) So the real question you have to ask yourself is - Did the writers or Joss really care about this character or did they create some bullseye character that all the blame is just thrown on, who never grows up or gets past their own BS issues? Was the character realistic?

I for one think that in the real world Connor would have committed suicide - God knows I would have put a bullet into him after about the 4th ep of season 4. I have been acussed of being "Whinny" but this kid was just TOO TOO much. He whined more than Dawn for god's sake. He whined and cried more than Kim Bassinger in Batman 1. He was more irritating than JA JA Binks. YUCH!

MY Conclusion - I back the Kid up, he did a good job but the writers DIDN't as far as his character - (and apparently in respect to the continuity of season 4 as well) I think he could have brought a lot more to the character (which really wasn't a character at all but rather a plot device) but he didn't get the chance. Does he have the right to wish that he had had more to work with? - YES. Is it selling out by going to the conventions and charging for his appearances? - Who cares - people pay to see Britney sing - it's a crazy world, guys gotta eat.

Anyone who shares my opinion that the Connor's last two appearances on Angel in Season 5 were his best would therefore logically agree with VK. The writers gave him a little more depth and he rose to the challenge.

Uncle Rory

Note; The moral of my post is that there are no absolutes. I cheerily await the hilarious reply - post in which someone argues the above with a list of absolutes. The only absolute in the universe is change.

 

[Silum]

Without really taking sides here - and Edmund will swear that I'm probably the least likely person on the site to back him up BUT ..... the above quote is ONE of many faults in the logic of the whole thread - and a lot of people have weighed in here so just because I have made a quote I think it's indicative of the thread and of many opinions on this site. It's that it's all BLACK and WHITE...... blah blah whatever

interesting that you chose to quote the one line i used to try and put out the flames on a debate getting more and more pointless and more and more personal.

I think I laid out my point of view quite clearly over about 10 posts and if you cant be arsed to read them then do me a favour and dont quote me out of context. Btw, i stopped reading at this point, I dont see the point in reading what you have to say if you dont care what I have to say.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Without really taking sides here - and Edmund will swear that I'm probably the least likely person on the site to back him up BUT ..... the above quote is ONE of many faults in the logic of the whole thread - and a lot of people have weighed in here so just because I have made a quote I think it's indicative of the thread and of many opinions on this site. It's that it's all BLACK and WHITE, either or, and as soon as you tell me that there are only two ways to look at a particular issue I will always 100% guarantee run out and find you a third, fourth and fifth possibility...(etc.)

All this is why I made the point that this is all I can judge him on. He should know this - he's an actor and he's doing interviews. He either chooses his words carefully, or he runs the risk of being mis/malquoted. From the text that he has put into the public sphere, I have formed my opinion. There is nothing more I can do, and if he doesn't like that, it's his own fault.

 

[Fusions2]

To be honest Im not surprised that Vincent didn't enjoy playing Connor so much. I could see it in his acting and just got a sense he wasn't connecting as much as all the actors did with their characters. It makes sense that they only bought him back for a few episodes in season 5, I think even the writers didn't know what to do with Connor if he had stayed with Angel in season 5.

He probably would have whined some more and gone on another boring mission to find Cordy, it would have got old at some point. Also I don't blame Christian for the things he said about his characters death, it was a lame way for him to end. Once again the writers failed to make another character go out with the show on a bang.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Re: Christian
While he probably shouldn't have said it to the media, I agree that it just seemed like a jab from Joss to have Angel call Lindsey a "tiny Texan." I know the line stood out to me as odd when Angel said it. I don't know if Christian's right about him being "bigger than David (in terms of weight I guess), since David looks to be over 200lbs. But I don't really think Christian's "tiny." I mean, he looks to be the same height as Spike & Xander who weren't referred to as tiny.

Re: Vincent
If he didn't connect with the cast, it worked for his character since Connor didn't connect with Angel inc. I didn't enjoy him in S4, but I think he was as believable as anyone else.

 

[JCC]

I think Christian Kane needs to get over himself. Someone called you small, it's not something to write home about, David Boreanaz was a good sport when they ribbed him about his forehead.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I think Christian Kane needs to get over himself. Someone called you small, it's not something to write home about, David Boreanaz was a good sport when they ribbed him about his forehead.

But having a big forehead isn't necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, David's a good sport, on MadTV, when he was on they claimed he had "work done" (ie plastic surgery) and on Bones they made fun that his eyes were too close together, lol.

I mean it was in poor taste for Kane to drag it into an interview, but it makes sense that he wouldn't love to be called "tiny" when other lead males are his height and skinnier, yet they're not "tiny."

 

[Washburne]

Ok, seriously. I must miss something about this whole "tiny texan" thing. Isn´t the whole purpose that Angel don´t like Lindsey and want to put him down to show how insignificant he is? One of the ways people do that in real life is to say things the person clearly would take offence by. Which sounds like the thing this does. So I must clearly miss something, right?

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

The thing is, IIRC, Christian was also joking around in this interview. You can pretty much tell that from the comment about the fight, no? That's his style in almost every interview I've seen with him. All he was doing was seperating himself from the character. David and Christian were good friends off set, the whole alpha-male sparring thing clearly carried over. CK just wanted to show that when Joss did things like that to the character, it didn't reflect on him as a person.

TK, you are right. That's basically what CK said about the "cutting his nuts just a little bit". The character of Lindsey wouldn't work without it.

 

[wehappyfew]

haha this thread's funny.

i agree with you all.

 

[Frketson]

i was just reading another interview with vincent (done a while back) and i thought this was interesting.

AM: Connor is not going to be a regular cast member in season five. Would you like to come back from time to time? VK: Yes. It's sensitive question, but I would love to come back. To tell you honestly, this is the best group of people I've ever worked with. I'm saying "˜people' - as artists, they're very accomplished and as people their set was so was so pleasant and I had so much fun, I really made some good friends there. It was nice for me to have that stability in life. I'm really going to miss that, and I'm really going to miss some of the opportunities that it gave me too, to stretch and to try some things. But I'm also looking forward to going on and trying new stuff. I never really wanted to do five seasons, so one season I feel was nice. And hopefully they do want me back. Tim [Minear] spoke to me about bringing me back for a few episodes, and I would definitely do that.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

There's a new interview here with Christian Kane, in which he mostly talks about "Leverage", but they get in an "Angel" question too. This should lay to rest any questions about his respect for JW:

9. One "Angel" question: what did you enjoy most about working on that show? I know you were already friends with Boreanaz before then.

There were two best things about working on that show. Number one, I got to go to work every day and try to kill my best friend. (Laughs) And number two was to be a part of something like Joss Whedon's world, where it's fresh, it's new, it's crisp, and"¦it was something that we usually only get to dream about. Most people never get to fly around on cables and see vampires and demons and weird spells and sorcery and things like that. Hardly anybody ever gets to do it, but I got to do it. It was there. And it wasn't all CGI. I was watching stuff happen right in front of me. I lived in a make-believe world for about five years, and to me, that's just"¦that's something that's unbelievable to have been a part of, to have lived in Joss Whedon's head.