Actors Bashing Joss
- Thread starter Buffyverse Fan
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What?! Irrational?! Me?! How very dare you! My love for Vinnie comes from spending time with the wonderful man, there is no irrationality about!!
*leaves thread quickly*
You just proved my point rather nicely there. Ol' Crazy Lyri how I love thee😀
VK still stinks though :eviltongu
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charmingslayer
[No message]
Airam
Zen baby.
ThatDarreinShow
Darrein
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
I stopped reading this half way through but I want to point out something.
All you Connor haters - you're agreeing with Vincent and hating him for it?
He hated how his character was written and made to be.
If you hate the character and the actor is clearly stating he didn't like what the people in charge were doing with him AND he offered ideas on how to make him a touch more interesting, surely he should be commended not villified?
I can totally believe him going on set and saying,
(that last bit you would have to follow my general rants about Whedon to truly understand)
If ALL an actor was supposed to do was read lines then TV, Film and Theatre wouldn't be the thriving business it is. The actor has to be part of the development of the character, if he isn't then it is acting by numbers.
I also don't see the problem with him doing conventions.
He is getting paid, yes, however what he is doing is giving the fans a jolly. He isn't promoting the show as much as he is acknowledging the fans, and to an extent what it has done for his career.
CK sounds like he's having a laugh to be honest.
All you Connor haters - you're agreeing with Vincent and hating him for it?
He hated how his character was written and made to be.
If you hate the character and the actor is clearly stating he didn't like what the people in charge were doing with him AND he offered ideas on how to make him a touch more interesting, surely he should be commended not villified?
I can totally believe him going on set and saying,
(that last bit you would have to follow my general rants about Whedon to truly understand)
If ALL an actor was supposed to do was read lines then TV, Film and Theatre wouldn't be the thriving business it is. The actor has to be part of the development of the character, if he isn't then it is acting by numbers.
I also don't see the problem with him doing conventions.
He is getting paid, yes, however what he is doing is giving the fans a jolly. He isn't promoting the show as much as he is acknowledging the fans, and to an extent what it has done for his career.
CK sounds like he's having a laugh to be honest.
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StuckinTraffic
[No message]
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Parsel Deletriu
[No message]
charmingslayer
How've you been...RAT
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
WOAH, so you're saying you've never had a bitch about your job?
I know for a fact most days I come home and rant about this that or the other, but then it pays my rent, lets me go out and even feeds me, while it bulks up my CV - yeah, maybe I should be more thankful😛
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
Anyone else who got hot when reading this;
"But, in real life, if me and B. got into a fight we'd better pack our lunch. The kid knows how to throw. He's a bad boy. He's got a temper."
He's a bad boy.
It's probably not meant to sound sexy, actually it sounds like David's a bit of a ...hothead? But I still drool.
It's nice that they're honest. Not that being polite and giving the general "Oh, the show meant so much to me"-speech is bad, but this was refreshing to read. I have no idea if I agree, because I was never on set. Oh wait, I can agree with this ;
"To me, the character lost its thrill about four episodes in. From there on out I felt like I was doing the same scene over and over and over. Every week I’d show up and have a scene with Cordelia, then Angel would show up and I’d have some sort of conflict with him. There’d be a couple of fight scenes where I’d fight with them even though I didn’t want to and then I would sulk and leave. That to me was every episode. Ultimately, they wrote him into a corner. There was nowhere for him to go."
He did sulk a lot. And now I wonder, do people feel that Vincent is a bad actor / Connor is dull, simply because Vincent didn't like the show and character and therefore didn't act as well as he could? Could Connor have been made a more popular character?
I think not, since I was don't think it was bad acting that made Connor unlikeble. He was just a messed up annoying kid.
And what's with some of the posts here? It seems like several assume that we think Vincent is spoiled and wants more power and look down on Angel fans. He doesn't say any of that. He says that he would have liked more creative influence(okay, weird if he didn't even watch the show), that he has worked with happier more creative people(okay, a bit rude). And the Joss comment and that he didn't understand the show isn't him bashing anyone. He just doesn't get it the show.
I don't get the "Kane's a nutcase"- comments either. He's colorful. So what?
I don't know exactly what you meant about Carpenter's comments and such, but I just want to say that nothing that was quoted from the actors in the first post is too disrespectful. Just because someone helped your carrier and let you earn lots of money doesn't mean that you need to kiss butt. Be fair and respectful yes, but there's no need to always agree.
"But, in real life, if me and B. got into a fight we'd better pack our lunch. The kid knows how to throw. He's a bad boy. He's got a temper."
He's a bad boy.
It's probably not meant to sound sexy, actually it sounds like David's a bit of a ...hothead? But I still drool.
It's nice that they're honest. Not that being polite and giving the general "Oh, the show meant so much to me"-speech is bad, but this was refreshing to read. I have no idea if I agree, because I was never on set. Oh wait, I can agree with this ;
"To me, the character lost its thrill about four episodes in. From there on out I felt like I was doing the same scene over and over and over. Every week I’d show up and have a scene with Cordelia, then Angel would show up and I’d have some sort of conflict with him. There’d be a couple of fight scenes where I’d fight with them even though I didn’t want to and then I would sulk and leave. That to me was every episode. Ultimately, they wrote him into a corner. There was nowhere for him to go."
He did sulk a lot. And now I wonder, do people feel that Vincent is a bad actor / Connor is dull, simply because Vincent didn't like the show and character and therefore didn't act as well as he could? Could Connor have been made a more popular character?
I think not, since I was don't think it was bad acting that made Connor unlikeble. He was just a messed up annoying kid.
And what's with some of the posts here? It seems like several assume that we think Vincent is spoiled and wants more power and look down on Angel fans. He doesn't say any of that. He says that he would have liked more creative influence(okay, weird if he didn't even watch the show), that he has worked with happier more creative people(okay, a bit rude). And the Joss comment and that he didn't understand the show isn't him bashing anyone. He just doesn't get it the show.
I don't get the "Kane's a nutcase"- comments either. He's colorful. So what?
I don't know exactly what you meant about Carpenter's comments and such, but I just want to say that nothing that was quoted from the actors in the first post is too disrespectful. Just because someone helped your carrier and let you earn lots of money doesn't mean that you need to kiss butt. Be fair and respectful yes, but there's no need to always agree.
It's a sad day in Lyri-Land when Al makes more sense than I do in an argument about Connor/Vinnie. But everything he said makes total sense to me, and it's what I was trying to say, had a not been doing two things at once, lol.
Thanks Al.
Thanks Al.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Don't worry Lyri - I got your back.
Besides, I'm not exactly a VK hater. He did a movie with Andy Garcia called The Unsaid which I thought was great.
VisionGuy
Oh Plerr
EXACTLY! Just because Joss hired them, does not mean that they are supposed to kiss his ass and act like they're rolling in puppies all the time. So what if he gave them work? It benefitted him in the long run. Who knows what the Buffyverse would have been like if he chose other people to play those characters. Some of you are acting like Joss is the messiah who died for everyone's sins. He's a person like everybody else. He makes mistakes and I am sure he can be unpleasant sometimes. Kudos to Vincent for speaking up and being honest about his feelings while he was doing Angel. I don't like Joss so maybe I'm being biased.
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Edmund Blackadder
I'm with you on all this - including the Joss love:p
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Ohh I am REALLY liking this thread and hope it continues for a while.
I think I should be singing some Frankie...
"When two tribes go to war..."
I think I should be singing some Frankie...
"When two tribes go to war..."
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
A
atticus
Guest
You see, i'm not a Connor hater, i actually like Connor, especially his return in season 5. I just think respect is something an employer deserves. Maybe that's just me, i may not like the people i work with and i certainly don't like my job, but the person who put's cash in my hand, and helps me pay the bill's, will always get my respect and loyalty. And again, this won't make me popular but i think an actor should know his place, if his chosen profession, is an actor, then read the lines and follow direction. If he wants to talk direction, and script writing, go to film school. Be a writer or director instead. If he want's to do all three, then all respect, but it can't be when you are new to a show,that is being run by someone else.
Cohen
Hellhound
Personally, I never liked Connor all to much. At the same time, I didn't like the acting either, so I'm kinda in a toss-up between which one I think sucked more: Vincent's acting or the character itself. Either way, they should have NEVER made Angel have a son. And if so, it should have been a son with either Buffy or Cordelia. Don't care which. Just with someone he LOVES. Then again, I'm a romantic, so.. what can I say?
Point is, both the acting and the character sucked. So he was right about the part where the character sucked.
Point is, both the acting and the character sucked. So he was right about the part where the character sucked.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Well, as a Kennedy defender, I'm certainly not going to bash Connor. 🙂 Honestly, I've never really felt motivated to hate any character in the Jossverse. They're all parts of the whole, and the whole is a really, really good story. Some characters are annoying, some are obnoxious, but... it takes all kinds.
I'm not going to judge Kartheiser on the basis of one comment, either. Lots of actors don't watch their own shows. I love Lucy Lawless, but she never watched Xena, and she would often drive fans crazy at conventions by not knowing what they were talking about when they cited something from an episode.
If he had negative experiences on the show it's certainly not an automatic given that his attitude was the cause of them. But he would be a little naive to show up on Joss Whedon's set... a young, pretty much unknown actor... and think he's going to be making conceptual decisions about his character. It just doesn't work like that. Even the Joss veterans like David and Charisma and Alexis probably only had very limited influence in that area.
As for Christian Kane's comments, I never got the idea that he meant them too seriously. I mean, the "tiny Texan" comment was Angel deliberately trying to insult and belittle a character that he didn't like. Why would CK interpret that as an insult by Joss against him personally?
Joss gave him some of the very best scenes in that entire series. That resignation-from-W&H scene? One of the best scenes anywhere, ever. He even got to sing on the show. And most actors would kill for the chance to have a memorable death scene in the series finale. Why would CK feel abused?
I'm not going to judge Kartheiser on the basis of one comment, either. Lots of actors don't watch their own shows. I love Lucy Lawless, but she never watched Xena, and she would often drive fans crazy at conventions by not knowing what they were talking about when they cited something from an episode.
If he had negative experiences on the show it's certainly not an automatic given that his attitude was the cause of them. But he would be a little naive to show up on Joss Whedon's set... a young, pretty much unknown actor... and think he's going to be making conceptual decisions about his character. It just doesn't work like that. Even the Joss veterans like David and Charisma and Alexis probably only had very limited influence in that area.
As for Christian Kane's comments, I never got the idea that he meant them too seriously. I mean, the "tiny Texan" comment was Angel deliberately trying to insult and belittle a character that he didn't like. Why would CK interpret that as an insult by Joss against him personally?
Joss gave him some of the very best scenes in that entire series. That resignation-from-W&H scene? One of the best scenes anywhere, ever. He even got to sing on the show. And most actors would kill for the chance to have a memorable death scene in the series finale. Why would CK feel abused?
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I thought Kartheiser did a great job with Connor, he seemed to really embody the lines, I just didn't really like him in S4. I did like him in S5, but he was almost like a different character. It's revealed in After the Fall that at this point, he really has had 3 fathers, and what now defines his character is deciding which one of their paths to follow when making his decisions. That would explain why he's so different in S5, and I think it was for the better.
Personally I think Kartheiser's acting & the writing were both very good and created the kind of character they needed. He was the most screwed up lead, imo, and he acted like it. I'm not even sure if he was supposed to be likable, because I don't think Angel really liked him, he loved him, and would die for him, but it didn't seem like he enjoyed his personality.
LadyLavinia
Scooby
Why is he ungrateful? Is he not allowed to be unhappy with his work on the show? He probably continued working because he needed the job and the money. But he also seemed put out by how Connor was written.
He didn't like working on ANGEL. Live with it. There is no rule that he had to love the show or the job.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Yes there is.
Seems to be the unwritten rule of fandom.
I believe its something like:
As an actor involved in anything Whedon you should praise him for giving you work and believe the character was amazing.
Also you must spend the rest of your life committed to loving this character and follow every change with baited breath and be knowledgable to answer all and any questions as Con.
Least I am sure thats how its written in the Holy Bible of Joss.
