Afghanistan Has Legalized Rape

[Bluebird]

Harm, maybe not racist (although you did come off that way) but highly ignorant on a subject that you're making pretty bold statements about. If you don't know anything about the subject you're talking about then maybe don't make generalisations that offend a whole country. I'm sure you wouldn't like the same being done to you.

 

[Revolver]

in Afghanistan or Pakistan or something --- whats the diff.

Uh, that they are entirely different places with different laws and governments. Arguments like this do not help your case.

 

[Bluebird]

Harm's Way agrees: people do make assumptions about me, I make them about people, everyone does, really I think you guys just need to toughen up.

People might make assumptions about you, but you're making assumptions about a whole country. There's a difference there. And ok, we'll 'toughen up', whatever that means, so that you can continue saying things like that? Enjoy it while it lasts. 😛

 

[Revolver]

Harm's Way agrees: oh my god, whatever! it's the middle east!

When you are trying to make an argument about a specific place and a group of people, you're not going to win it by citing information that's possibly about an entirely different country. If I were making an argument about the United States, I wouldn't use an example of something that happened in Canada as evidence, would I? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I wouldn't classify Pakistan or Afghanistan as being part of the Middle East.

 

[Selig]

Maybe, just maybe everyone needs to take a deep breath.

It seems pretty clear that everybody's on the same page on this. Harm's Way is trying to make a point rather badly. Others are attacking her when they should be trying to explain.

Everyone agrees that this "law" is crap! All else is just infighting.

It's pointless.

 

[Friendly Lurker]

But knowing that these people in Afghanistan's culture, religion, and ways of living already disrespects women and doesn't think of them as barely anything to begin with, it kind of changes things.

Conservative religious/tribal leaders still have a lot of power but that doesn't mean the entire population should be removed. 😛 I don't think the women of Afghanistan were any worse off than anyone else until the Taleban took over so it's a bit weird to say that it's a part of the Afghan culture.

 

[Revolver]

Yes, I think someone should try reading The Kite Runner for an entertaining, fictional look at how different Afghanistan became after the Taliban took over.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Selig agrees: No, that's a rather complicated subject 🙂
Harm's Way agrees: ok well then whats the proper name for it because it surely isn't europe, africa, or asia.

Agreed it is complicated. I've heard people of Pakistani descent refer to themselves as Asian. I would class Afghanistan as part of Eastern Europe, though some people might classify it as Asian. I think I would call Pakistan central asian. But like I said I wouldn't classify either as Middle Eastern which is not to say nobody would.

 

[Flannen]

I'm racist, but they are the ones with those customs against women. The one that make them cover their whole bodies.

This is just one of their 'customs'. If they were forced into this then they would surely not participate in these 'customs' when they were in another country, which they don't. Their way of showing that they respect their bodies is to not let them be objectified so choose to cover them up.

Am I correct in thinking that Middle Eastern isn't actually classed as a politically correct any more? And I'm not saying that to have a go and say 'you're not politically correct', I'm only asking out of interest, cos I'm not entirely sure I'm correct.

I just really think laws like this are awful. It's so horrible to think that some people have to live a country that will actually kill you if you try and have a different point of view or stand up against things you don't believe in, because a handful of people have gained total control. It really is so sad.

 

[Friendly Lurker]

Agreed it is complicated. I've heard people of Pakistani descent refer to themselves as Asian. I would class Afghanistan as part of Eastern Europe, though some people might classify it as Asian. I think I would call Pakistan central asian. But like I said I wouldn't classify either as Middle Eastern which is not to say nobody would.

Did I misunderstand your post or did you just say Afghanistan is in Eastern Europe? 😛 Afghanistan is nowhere near Europe and couldn't be said to be Eastern European even by the most generous standards.

"Afghanistan is a landlocked country that is located approximately in the center of Asia. It is variously designated as geographically located within Central Asia, South Asia, and the Middle East."

 

[Washburne]

Does this help anyone? Not that it matter for the discussion itself. But just to settle it.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Geographically, the term 'middle east' is accurate because of its location.

The issue with that term is that its founded from a euro-centric idea that is kind of outdated - however in the definitions of what the 'middle east' is, it is that, and is definitely in Asia (something I've never seen argued otherwise).

Also, I can understand Harms Way and his Afghanistan/Pakistan, potato/potAto comment because there are alot of similarities in custom and law as well as religion.

The problem in this thread is that everyone discussing 'generalisations' are generalising.

I doubt there are many, if any, members of this board that can relate to living in somewhere like that so its hard for people to believe that it will happen and that men will now rape their wives because its the law.

The German/Hitler reference that has been used actually in another context supports Harms Way.
Yes a few people were in charge, but the masses, and I do mean masses, adored the man and believed in what he said - they followed him blindly and did his bidding. My grandparents were amongst those.

IF you believe in the people making the decisions, and there is no proof that the people of Afghanistan don't, then there will be some that follow the law - thats where the real sadness in this is. There are women in Afghanistan who will now be raped when before they weren't.

There are also women in Afghanistan who will not see it as rape because of their beliefs, their customs and their way of life.

I don't know enough about the entire situation to pass judgement and say that this is wrong, even though from what I do know it feels wrongs, it doesn't seem right, but then I'm not going to go to Afghanistan and impose my beliefs on them because we tried that to that part of the world before as well as others and it never works out for us.

We had issues in our country decades/centuries ago and we, the people stood up and made our voices be heard and changed things. Had someone come to us and say we are wrong and not allowed the 'common man' to stand up, then it would have not have helped, it would have hindered.

The people of a country need to 'fight back' themselves, they need their own revolutions to change it, not some outsiders coming in and saying 'this is how we do things, you should do it like that because we know what we're talking about' because thats never right and part of the reason alot of the Western World is despised by countries like these.

 

[Kean]

The German/Hitler reference that has been used actually in another context supports Harms Way.
Yes a few people were in charge, but the masses, and I do mean masses, adored the man and believed in what he said - they followed him blindly and did his bidding. My grandparents were amongst those.

This is exactly the reason I used the German/Nazi reference. Questioning the point of the German race in Post-War Europe could very easily have happened. 50 million Europeans had been killed in the war, the majority of them civilians. The land was beyond devastated and the people were broken. Europe was on its knees and the root of the problem stemmed from Germany and its Nazi party. You're right, the majority of the people were completely assimilated into the Third Reich and believed in their Fuhrer BUT that was over 60 years ago. Apart from Russia no other country was so systematically levelled by the war than Germany. Germany rebuilt itself, it moved on from the destruction and pain of Nazism and has built one of the finest countries in Europe.

I think the same applies to Afghanistan. We have no idea of what the Afghani people have been through and continue to go through. I can understand to a certain extent what Harm's Way is saying but to me that sounds like putting a dog down to put them out of their misery.

 

[Friendly Lurker]

The Ministry of Justice of Afghanistan announced that the law has been put on hold. Can't find it on any English news sites though. :O

 

[mcwitty]

Actually, it's not their religion. The Koran (the Muslim holy book) says nothing about women having to even wear a burqa, and it certainly doesn't condone a husband's control over his wife or rape. The laws the Taliban has set against women are so far off from their religious beliefs that it's difficult to even refer to them as radical interpretations of the text.

With that said, this article is just...I can't even find the right words to describe how horrified I am with it. How can they even consider violating basic human rights like that with a clean conscience?

What really enrages me as a girl about this is that these men hide behind religion; they twist and turn all this rhetoric in holy books that anyone could manipulate to churn out a meaning they find satisfactory in order to carry out their sexist regimes. That's what really gets my blood boiling.
They are such cowards.
There are men like this all over the world, from countries as liberal and 'free' as America to stricter regimes like Saudi Arabia. It's not only a culture or religion that produces men like this; they can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's a disgusting character flaw. The only difference here is men in countries like that where they mix religion with politics can't support their sick ideas with their politics so they use religion as a scapegoat. Sorry to be blunt but **** that.
I know plenty of Western Muslims and this is just total BS.
UGH.
I am so mad at this article I could hit something. 🙁

 

[Friendly Lurker]

The Associated Press: Afghan spokesman: Marital law is under review

"Karzai's spokesman, Humayun Hamidzada, said the president has consulted with Afghanistan's leading clerics and his Cabinet over the law, and that it has been sent to the Ministry of Justice for review."

"The Justice Ministry has said the law, which has not been published in the official registry, is not being enforced while it is under review."