Am I The Only One Who Hated Season 6?

Because I think she wasn't as shocked by Buffy's death, if that makes sense. I mean, you're talking about two different types of love. The love for your best friend, vs. the love for you partner. Tara's death was so instant, so unexpected, it was just WHAM, Tara dies. Willow is devestated, to the point that she just snaps. Looses all control, turns dark. I mean, yes, the same could be said for her reaction to Buffy's death. But having said that, perhaps Dawn told them all what Buffy had said to her. Perhaps Willow too understood that at that time, Buffy needed to die to stop the portal opening. I'm not too sure on that one, but it's an interesting thought.
 
Yea that's why I pointed that out, I know that Tara's death was instant and that's what made Willow snap, it's just, if she had the knowledge before hand, Buffy's 'second' death wouldn't have happened in this reality 'cause in the other reality according to Cordelia's wish in Season 3, Buffy does die there by the Master, but in this reality "of the show obviously lol" she dies in Season 5 and that was supposed to just be the end of it, but they brought the show back and I'm wondering if Tara's death should have happened at the beginning of season 6 instead of the end, if that makes sense, or no it doesn't skip that, but I mean Willow knew this, and she should have used it when Buffy made the decision to dive into the energy portal to save her, or bring her back sooner without going behind Giles's back and all that jazz.
 
I'm thinking that perhaps Willow didn't have this knowledge before, as she was still learning. Sorry to have mis-read your post before!

Rowen, also sorry to you, I mis-interpreted the context.

Apologies and cookies all round!
 
Oh it's okay I may not have been specific about that, it just made me wonder, and that's a possibility too that she was still learning, because when she did bring Buffy back as I am remembering now, she was doing research before the group decided that it was a good idea to try bringing her back with a spell by Willow. It was in the first episode of season 6 I think when she even mentioned something about bringing her back from an unnatural death and I don't know if she mentioned Cyrus or not but that may have been the case. I do know she had to do the research before trying anything though.
 
R
Rowan Hawthorn
Not to nitpick (yeah, right...) but it's "Osiris"
I'm thinking that perhaps Willow didn't have this knowledge before, as she was still learning. Sorry to have mis-read your post before!

Rowen, also sorry to you, I mis-interpreted the context.

Apologies and cookies all round!

No worries, I probably shouldn't have been so sarcastic, anyway.

Also: Mmm'Cookies!

Edit:

Oh it's okay I may not have been specific about that, it just made me wonder, and that's a possibility too that she was still learning, because when she did bring Buffy back as I am remembering now, she was doing research before the group decided that it was a good idea to try bringing her back with a spell by Willow. It was in the first episode of season 6 I think when she even mentioned something about bringing her back from an unnatural death and I don't know if she mentioned Cyrus or not but that may have been the case. I do know she had to do the research before trying anything though.

I think you're right - it was a different situation between the end of Season 5 and the end of Season 6. Willow had gone much deeper into the dark magick by the time Tara was killed, it was just reflexive. And she did call on Osiris during the spell to resurrect Buffy, so it makes sense that her first instinct would be to call on him again to try and save Tara.
 
Okay thanks for the correction on Osiris. I am thinking that the difference between her calling upon Osiris the first time and then the second time was the first time it was done properly with the vase that was needed for the ritual. It was done as 'Wicca' participants would have had to adhere to if they were attempting something like this. Between the middle of Season 6 and the end after Tara's death, Willow had covered the basics of magic dutifully, then proceeded to the other forces when Amy was brought back as a human... with that new knowledge and the frustrations she felt when Tara was shot in their room, she felt the need to care less to call upon Osiris the natural "Wicca" way and just go straight to the source.
 
I sometimes wonder if the reason why so many dislike the later seasons is because they focused upon Buffy being forced to mature in the usual messy way that people are forced to do. I also wonder if many fans would prefer if Buffy had remained in arrested development between ages 16-18, harboring her black-and-white morality and wallowing her "twu luv" relationship with Angel.
 
B
Blondie Bear
Entirely possible.
I sometimes wonder if the reason why so many dislike the later seasons is because they focused upon Buffy being forced to mature in the usual messy way that people are forced to do. I also wonder if many fans would prefer if Buffy had remained in arrested development between ages 16-18, harboring her black-and-white morality and wallowing her "twu luv" relationship with Angel.

I'm fairly certain both of those statements are accurate. But speaking as someone who liked the early seasons, and the late ones: I'm also fairly certain that, given a choice between "wallowing" in a "twu luv" relationship with someone who actually cares about you and wallowing in a destructive relationship with an obsessed demon, I have serious doubts as to whether those choosing the latter has any better grasp of the term "mature" than the others...
 
Oh gosh. Wait til WA and Keanoite get here to debate the twu wuv vs. complex, messy Spike thing.

I agree that in season 6, Buffy was:
wallowing in a destructive relationship with an obsessed demon
with whom she could have sex.

I don't think that's necessarily any less mature than wallowing in twu wuv with whom she couldn't have sex. I mean, Angel(us) was an obsessed demon, too.

There are a lot of similarities between Angel and Spike. They're from the same vampire family. They're both attractive, charming, dangerous men. Unchecked, (by either the soul or the chip) they're ferocious killers. Neither one is the poster boy for bachelor of the year. Neither one constitutes a healthy relationship for Buffy.

The difference, I think, was Buffy. She'd been through a whole lot by the time Spike came around. She'd been burned before. Her reaction was, understandably, to close herself off. But Spike kept coming around giving her puppy dog eyes, which was awfully convenient, since she saw him as impotent (with the chip and, later, his love) and unable to harm her. She used him. Plain and simple. Who hasn't done that?

That's a definite stage -- when you want a physical connection but not an emotional one and so, knowing how he feels, you use a guy who totally adores you. It's not pretty, but it happens more often than most of us would like to admit. And it helps you to mature. You learn stuff from that experience. By hurting others, you gain insight into the mindset of those who hurt you. It helps you to forgive and to deal. By treating people as they are not supposed to be treated and witnessing the subsequent fallout, you learn how people are supposed to be treated. I could go on and on, but the point is that there is a dark side in all of us. Learning what your limits are and how to control those negative tendencies is definitely part of maturing. Unfortunately, it's a not-very-pretty part.

The reason I prefer Spuffy to Bangel is because, like Spike says later in season 7, they saw the best and the worst in each other. That forges a connection, folks. They went through some crap together and they both came out stronger in the end. They know that, as messy as it gets, they can deal with that side of each other in the future. In the end of season 7, they love each other in part because they each know better than anyone else what the other had to overcome to get to that place. That's not hearts and flowers, kiddies, but it's about the only thing I'm willing to call love. It's tested. It's battered. It's about the only thing I'm willing to bet on as lasting and real and unbreakable.

So, no, I don't think the season 6 thing with Spike shows a lack of maturity. I think it shows a very age-appropriate amount of maturity that, while difficult, is a necessary stage of development for any person who hopes to go into future relationships with his/her eyes wide open rather than wearing the fairy-tale blinders of naivety. Facing the inner demon is hard, but it's a good, enlightening thing to go through. I liked the earlier seasons. I liked the later seasons, too. For me, season 6 was my favorite, though, because it took a gamble and actually let the main characters - like Buffy - explore the negative aspects of their characters as well as the positive sides. That took guts. In the end, I think it made them all more fully realized characters.
 
B
Blondie Bear
How incredibly insightful. I'm still blinking.
VisionGuy
VisionGuy
[No message]
L
Lou
Good job! A+
Oh gosh. Wait til WA and Keanoite get here to debate the twu wuv vs. complex, messy Spike thing.

I'm not gonna bother debating it. Both of those relationships were complex and messy and neither were healthy relationships. "Let's beat the crap out of each other and screw each other's brains out while despising ourselves for it" relationships generally last longer than "Hearts and flowers and puppy-dog twu love" relationships only because, in the Real World, one partner or the other is afraid to try and leave it. That's messed up.
 
There's a lot of darkness in Season 6, but I think the purpose of that is for Joss to show us that Buffy can deal with the real world just as well as the rest of us as well as her duties as the Slayer. That was one of the big points for Season 6. She had to deal with her sister that was in the "pitty me" stage of the teenage years, and the dealing of Spike who was becoming obsessed with Buffy and wanted to use her, and vice versa. She had a lot to balance and find herself again towards the end of Season 6, and she did I think.
 
I don't think 'so many' people dislike the later seasons. I do see that more people just happen to like seasons 2-5 better, me being one of them. Although I love all the seasons bar season 6... it's alright, but just a little too dark for me all around.

I love season 7 and season 8 actually, so people saying 'oh it's because everyone likes Buffy immature' seems inaccurate, especially for me. Season six is the only season where I really wanted different things to happen, and I don't mean the whole Spuffy thing.. mostly just the everyone wanting to kill themselves. Not to take value away from exploring that side of the human condition, but I didn't like how it was handled. Anyway pretty sure I've said everything in my second paragraph before in this thread.
 
I think the main reasons people seem to dislike Season 6 is because of the Spuffy relationship and the whole whining Dawn deal of committing or trying to commit suicide and the darkness of season 6 that isn't seen in the previous seasons. Now that I think about it, I kinda like season 6 a little because it shows the maturity that the scooby gang had to go through, things you have to deal with in real life... like Xander and Anya's wedding that didn't happen. The whole Dawn deal, Willow getting furious about Tara's death, etc. That's all just part of life, it was the way it was handled supernaturally in the show that makes it more interesting, and I think they may have over-done some parts of it, but other than that it was a good season I suppose.
 
Season 6 is still my favourite but i have to say xander ditching anya like that angered me, it was so out of character...i thought she was going to wake up and it be wedding day jitters.

Amy being quite evil annoyed me cause she seemed like the kinda ratson that would never do that, she tried to avoid her mothers way of life and it kinda made that whole amy and her mum episode being pointless.

killing tara devastated me :'(

They should of kept tara, and then we wouldn't of had to meet kennedy eww! xox
 
Season6 is probably my least favorite season and the season where I havent rewatched that many of the episodes. The season started out on a high note but it seemed after OMWF, it just went downhill with the Spuffyness and all the over darkness. Noone was happy, Giles left, and well Spuffy began.
 
A
alexa
[No message]
I'm also fairly certain that, given a choice between "wallowing" in a "twu luv" relationship with someone who actually cares about you and wallowing in a destructive relationship with an obsessed demon, I have serious doubts as to whether those choosing the latter has any better grasp of the term "mature" than the others...


I hate to say this, but I found Buffy's relationship with Angel to be a lot more destructive . . . as Season 2 proved. I also believe that if she had remained with him, she would have also remained stuck in arrested development. Her "destructive" relationship with Spike forced her to grow up. And in her own way, Buffy was as obssessive with Spike as he was with her.
 
I hate to say this, but I found Buffy's relationship with Angel to be a lot more destructive . . . as Season 2 proved.

How did Season 2 "prove" that Buffy's relationship with Angel was worse than with Spike?

I also believe that if she had remained with him, she would have also remained stuck in arrested development. Her "destructive" relationship with Spike forced her to grow up.

Buffy was five years older than when she met Angel. She'd died twice, averted at least three apocalypseses (apocalypsi?) I think you're not only giving Spike a lot more credit than he deserves, you're seeing what you want to see to support your choice of 'ships.

And in her own way, Buffy was as obssessive with Spike as he was with her.

Well, that certainly makes it a much more healthy relationship... :rolleyes0
 
How did Season 2 "prove" that Buffy's relationship with Angel was worse than with Spike?


You're kidding me . . . right? I don't think I'm going to bother to answer that one.


Buffy was five years older than when she met Angel. She'd died twice, averted at least three apocalypseses (apocalypsi?) I think you're not only giving Spike a lot more credit than he deserves, you're seeing what you want to see to support your choice of 'ships.


I never said that Spike was responsible for Buffy's maturity. I can't help it if Buffy tended to view Angel through rose-colored glasses like some child.

Well, that certainly makes it a much more healthy relationship...

I agree. But it sure as hell forced Buffy to finally grow up. Not everything in life happens smoothly. Certainly not real relationships.
 
You're kidding me . . . right? I don't think I'm going to bother to answer that one.





I never said that Spike was responsible for Buffy's maturity. I can't help it if Buffy tended to view Angel through rose-colored glasses like some child.



I agree. But it sure as hell forced Buffy to finally grow up. Not everything in life happens smoothly. Certainly not real relationships.

Yeah, it's a difficult one. It's neglible which relationship is worse and it also depends on why it's worse. The fact that consequentially there were defects does not ncessarily reflect on the nature of the persons involved, well not Buffy. She was innocent in his turning and no one exepcted Angel to lose his soul not even him. Though their relationship wasn't perfect, (show me a perfect relationship ) certainly this was the main issue and it wasn't really psychological but more metaphysical (well a little of the former but I would look at the the relationship between Angel and Angelus more closely for this)

With Spike and Buffy it's much more of the latter. However I don't think Buffy needed to go through what she went through. A lot of people talk about Spike and Buffy as the 'adult' relationship but I personally feel it's one way an adult relationship can go. We don't need to be abused and to be an abuser to learn how to grow up. In fact I think that's a naive, narrow assumption in itself. We can make mistakes and we can grow from those mistakes but it's not always necessary for us to do that. It was a direction they went in and I loved that. But when people make the assumption that Buffy had to go through that in almost a rite of passage deal. Like I said, just as narrow thinking as assuming that Angel and Buffy's relationship was a bed of roses.
 
N
Nabila
well said
You're kidding me . . . right? I don't think I'm going to bother to answer that one.

No, I'm not kidding, and I'm not surprised. There would have to actually be an answer first.

I never said that Spike was responsible for Buffy's maturity.

Really:
Her "destructive" relationship with Spike forced her to grow up.

I can't help it if Buffy tended to view Angel through rose-colored glasses like some child.

She was a child at the time. What the hell would you expect? And, by the end of Season Two, she was "mature" enough to put the greater good ahead of her love for Angel. She put a sword through her lover's chest to stop him from releasing serious evil into the world, for chrissake.

I agree. But it sure as hell forced Buffy to finally grow up. Not everything in life happens smoothly. Certainly not real relationships.

And again, that doesn't make those relationships necessarily healthy or mature, nor does it follow that it's required to go through that much crap in order to grow up. Following that reasoning to its logical extreme, every woman should aspire to hook up with some bad boy whom she's gonna have to get a restraining order against in order for her to "grow up." That's not growing up, that's just f***ed up.
 
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