Amy and Willow

C

CharmedSlayer85

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Okay a point was brought up which made me realize a major inconsistancy in the Buffyworld when it comes to Amy. When last we saw Amy she was in Season Three about the get burned at the stake. Flash forever three years later after being a rat for three years she suddenly develops ALL this power and seems to ALMOST be on the same level of Willow, which or course she did mention Willow was more powerful. But my issue with that is where the hell did Amy get all this power from? I mean if she was able to manipulate reality in Season Three why is it that the only way she could escape from the mob was turning herself into a rat? I mean she could have turned the parents into I don't know caged pigeons. Also how could she have known Rack, she didn't appear to be THAT much into magick to know someone as dangerous as Rack. Also how is Willow able to manipulate reality and such and even fried the demon from inside out, but she can't fight vampires and such? Like really what does she need Buffy for? Why couldn't she go into the Hell mouth and created a giant sun spell, cause she's obviously more powerful now then she was in "Wrecked."
 
W
watcher1006
Finally, someone points this out!
My theory is one I've mentioned before. Season 6, and a good chunk of later Season 7 was showrun by Marti Noxon, who never appeared to particularly care if things added up, or not. Smashed: the episode where Willow and Amy go power-crazed in The Bronze is written by Drew Z Greenberg. During his Marti Noxon years he had a similar disrespect for common sense. He's the guy who wrote Him, and is responsible for the inconsistencies involving the Initiative base still existing after we were told it was supposed to be filled in with concrete, and everyone turning on Buffy, then Dawn throwing her out of the house, when earlier in the episode we were led to believe things were fine between Buffy and the Scoobs. I think he's also the guy who had the troika chasing vampires on ATVs with stakes tied to the handlebars.
 
Yeah it was a little inconsistant, but I bought it at the time. I assumed that if she could turn people into rats, give invisible homework, and other spells that worked I thought she might be able to do what she did in Season Six. But yeah now I think about it, you think they could have filled in some holes before making her so powerful. Your power doesn't grow with age alone, it's a craft.. unless she was casting mini rat spells for 3 years 😉 lol.
 
Then there's the gap between the complicated love spell Amy casts in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewilidered, and her just twitching her nose, or whatever it is in Smashed, and a girl leaves her girlfriend to fall instantly in love with Willow.
 
Another point that has bothered me. Amy's supposed to be resentful and jealous about Willow but she's no lightweight herself. Witness her in S6 "Smashed" at the Bronze and also in S7 "The Killer In Me", where she throws Kennedy around like a rag doll and teleports her to Buffy's backyard. Really, is she really so inferior to Willow?

And again about Amy - one of my favourite episodes of the series is the aforementioned "Bewitched, Bothered, And Bewildered", written by Marti Noxon, in Season 2. Yes, a key event in that episode is when Amy turns Buffy into a rat. When you think about it, that's an enormous power to have. It's a while before Willow does anything comparable. Did Xander later quake in his shoes thinking about just whom he had tried to blackmail?
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
I hadn't thought of that, but yeah. Transmogrification, as the Potter people call it, is no small skill to have.
nerd4hire said:
My theory is one I've mentioned before. Season 6, and a good chunk of later Season 7 was showrun by Marti Noxon, who never appeared to particularly care if things added up, or not. Smashed: the episode where Willow and Amy go power-crazed in The Bronze is written by Drew Z Greenberg. During his Marti Noxon years he had a similar disrespect for common sense. He's the guy who wrote Him, and is responsible for the inconsistencies involving the Initiative base still existing after we were told it was supposed to be filled in with concrete, and everyone turning on Buffy, then Dawn throwing her out of the house, when earlier in the episode we were led to believe things were fine between Buffy and the Scoobs. I think he's also the guy who had the troika chasing vampires on ATVs with stakes tied to the handlebars.
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Well even though it was run my Marti, Joss still had to approve everything before it went on the air, because at the end of the day it's still his show. Just like all the comics and books that are written, even though he's not apart of it he still has to approve it. So he obviously approved Willow and Amy going all Franklin Richards at the Bronze. Franklin Richards is a Marvel comics character who can warped reality in case people didn't know.
 
We've heard stories about how Joss would break the series down at the beginning of the season, and be involved with the basic formative process, however we don't really know the day to day editorial process. I would suggest however that the title "Showrunner" implies that at some point, or another that person is running the show, and I would suggest the purpose of Joss delegating the authority to someone else had something to do with the fact he wasn't around to take care of showrunning stuff himself.

From a subjective standpoint my feeling is there are sufficient questionable calls which seem very un-Josslike in Season 6 and the Second half of season 7 for me to call the process into question.
 
Ok this is way out there in space( don't laugh) I was thinking that maybe Amy got her magic power .... Is from her mother. How you may wonder did this happen. I was thinking that when Amy's mother took over her body , that it left some magic behind in Amy thus when Amy turned into a rat it had plenty of time to build up. Thus giving Amy all this power, making her on the same level as Willow. Plus I have a feeling what we didn't see was at some time Amy may or may not have other dealings with other magic people such as Rack. Who truely knows what all Amy and her mother was into and who they met. I still think Amy wasn't all that innocent as she calme at that the time we were told about her mother's power. It's what I think,I could be wrong.
 
Mandy333 said:
Ok this is way out there in space( don't laugh) I was thinking that maybe Amy got her magic power .... Is from her mother. How you may wonder did this happen. I was thinking that when Amy's mother took over her body , that it left some magic behind in Amy thus when Amy turned into a rat it had plenty of time to build up. Thus giving Amy all this power, making her on the same level as Willow. Plus I have a feeling what we didn't see was at some time Amy may or may not have other dealings with other magic people such as Rack. Who truely knows what all Amy and her mother was into and who they met. I still think Amy wasn't all that innocent as she calme at that the time we were told about her mother's power. It's what I think,I could be wrong.
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I mean it's obvious that Amy got her power from her mother, because she's a natural born witch like Tara who's power comes from their bloodline, which makes her different from Willow because Willow is a learned witch, however it shouldn't make Amy that powerful. That's kind of like a person being born with the ability to sing because their family could sing, however if I don't develop my voice and use my ability it won't be that great as opposed to if I practiced and sang a lot. And the same goes for Amy. When she was first around she didn't have the power she displayed in Season Six, and obviously she was a rat for three years, so no way she could have practiced and develop her craft like Willow did so where is all this power coming from?
 
Yeah totally guys - before turning into a Rat she was all kinds of down with the Occult - she could've known Rack then. And I agree about the mother passing down powers. I think she was a hardcore wicca prior to Willow - remember "Goddess Hecite, work thy will" and turning Buffy into Buffy rat?
 
jesterjay said:
Yeah totally guys - before turning into a Rat she was all kinds of down with the Occult - she could've known Rack then. And I agree about the mother passing down powers. I think she was a hardcore wicca prior to Willow - remember "Goddess Hecite, work thy will" and turning Buffy into Buffy rat?
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Yes I'm not disagreeing that Amy wasn't powerful before, but she wasn't nowhere near the level she was all of a sudden in Season Six, because she wouldn't have had such trouble escaping when the town tried to burn all the witches, she could have easily turned them all into toads or something to that effect if she was that damn powerful.
 
do you think it's a coming of age type deal? Willow was powerful but until she was Season 6 age (20?) she couldn't become all bad news bear.

could this be a possibility?
 
I don't know I think amy might have been more powerful then she was letting on back in season 2/3. She was able to turn Buffy into a rat - seriously advanced and she was already seeing Rack, he says he hadn't seen her in a while when she comes back in season 6.

The love spell back fired cuz Cordys chain protected her. And the rat spell back fired because it was was advanced, I think turnig 60/70 people into rats would have been harder then the stuff they were doing in the Bronze.
 
I agree here with BEG.

Another thought that I just had, was maybe if she wasn't at that highest level, she was feeding off Willow's power a little bit?

And knowing about Rack... that doesn't bother me so much, I don't see it as indicative to her power. I mean, I know where the crack houses are in the neighborhood where I teach, but that doesn't mean that I'm a customer. Amy might have only known it by word of mouth before actually dealing with Rack personally.
 
except that according to BEG, rack says he hasnt seen her in a while. that means he must have seen her at some point. like it has been said, during 'gingerbread' it was implied, or shown (it was hard to tell when they all wore cloaks) that she was part of some sort of coven, so whether or not she was a hardcore witch then, maybe someone from the coven brought her a couple of times. im still not sure what the deal is with the sudden boost of power though. i see plenty of plausible theories in this thread.
 
L
Lindsey McDonald
Thanks for the approval, btw!
jesterjay said:
do you think it's a coming of age type deal? Willow was powerful but until she was Season 6 age (20?) she couldn't become all bad news bear.

could this be a possibility?
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I get what you're saying now, but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Willow became as powerful as she was based on her constant practice and knowledge seeking. It's not because she suddenly turned 20 or whatever that gave her her incredible power, because Tara was 20 and so was Jonathan, but they were no were near her level of expertise and power, because they didn't study as much as she did and also didn't have a high level of science as she has, which is another reason why I think she progressed so quickly because magick is based off science according to Anya
 
Best not to try and understand it to much, as the show and actual reality don't mesh. Just because Willow studied a lot it wouldn't make her more powerful, just more capable of greater experience. Age has nothing to do with how powerful a person is if the person has natural ability. Magic and science, it's like saying she is the most powerful wiccan. If Wicca is a religion how could she be most powerful. Accept the series or reality, but not both.
 
A
alexa
yep, it's her natural ability
I know this topic is quite old, but I have been thinking about this issue recently.

Firstly, back before Amy was a rat,Ibelieve that she was a much more powerful witch than she was portrayed. Now, I am wondering something, was the invisible homework spell done by her or her mother? I cant really remember.

Anyway, she was still a natural witch. that means she has had plenty of practice time before she became a rat, unlike Willow. She turned Buffy into a rat, with a supplication to Hecate. Now, IIRC, Willow didn't begin supplications to high Goddesses like that for quite a while. Also, we are later shown that "transmogrification" - for lack of a Buffyverse word - is advanced magic. Also, she (may have) altered her teacher's perception in order t give her the "homework". Finally, when she was turned into a rat, I believe that it was not herself she was trying to transmogrify, but the crowd. I a sure there was a plural in the spell somewhere. Now, that kind of magic was probably only just in Willow's league later on, but Amy believed she had at least a small chance of pulling it off. Needless to say, she failed. This could also explain why it was so difficult to reverse; it was not a standard spell.

Back to the Bronze then. I really don't see what the problem is here. Firstly, withces can combine their energies to become more powerful than when they are alone (e.g. the covens; Tara, Willow and the Vending machine). Amy is feeding off Willow. She does nothing alone that we havn't seen her do before.

Playing pool without a cue, just like floating pencils, an early skill learned. Getting the woman to come over for Willow was just like convncing the teacher that the homework was there. There was no love, she just made the girl believe that Willow was attractive and that it would be good to dance with her. It isn't really comparible to the potion in BBaB (which was powerful stuff in itself), as it probably would't have lasted long without Amy (or Willow) concentrating on it. Finally, the only other significant magical move Amy makes is in teleporting the two guys to the dance cages....with Willow's help.

So, basically, I really don't see what the problem with this episode is...
 
A
alexa
well articulated
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Spirit_Of_Fred
the homework thing? yeah, that was really amy. some good points here. :)
What about Amy teleporting Kennedy? No other real witch in the room. I am not sure where she would draw that kind of power. Unless she got some kind of a high from rack or the same way Willow drew power from Kennedy and Anya, or could have been elesewhere. Either way we know Willow is the more powerful of the two. I just had to throw that in of course.
 
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