ANGEL After the Fall #16

[Clem Rocks]

i think season 8 is roughly a year and a half the end of season 7


"charmingslayer agrees: Oh that is so sad and nice that she feels now but what about Wes's ghost?"

Physically everyone is the way they were at the end of NFA, so he's still dead after being stabbed by Vale

 

[AndrewCrossett]

We still don't know how any of this affects season 8. But I don't see how they can continue to ignore the Angel question anymore in the Buffy comics after this.

And yeah... it's hard to convey just through the summary, but "pointless" is certainly not the right description here.

Re: the "everybody knows about vamps" issue... people know about vamps now, but they also know most of them are evil. Being able to point to Angel and Harmony as the two lovable vamps won't change that fact. So I'm still not too convinced about the "popular vamps" storyline.

 

[Clem Rocks]

Another thing to know is that this is the last issue that deals with this whole arc, issue 17 is just a little extra, like how Buffy season 4 was. It ended, and then had that little dream episode

 

[Kean]

Another thing to know is that this is the last issue that deals with this whole arc, issue 17 is just a little extra, like how Buffy season 4 was. It ended, and then had that little dream episode

Has there been any talk on what might happen in this issue?

 

[Clem Rocks]

Has there been any talk on what might happen in this issue?

Not that i know off, my guess would be mostly talking


"charmingslayer agrees: Oh ok i wonder if Gunns story will go different this time and hopefully god i can this imagine as a S7 or S6 for Angel that would of been amazing"

Spoiler

It does, Angel saves him before he gets sired and takes him to hospital

 

[Frketson]

ok i get that they reset everything, but i dont get it, they went back in time, yet still remember what happened. So in essence they have basically seen the future, wouldnt it have made more sense if they reset everything to how it was but STILL keep it in the present time??

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Has there been any talk on what might happen in this issue?

I don't know... but one thing to look for, very carefully, is any evidence as to whether Wolfram & Hart actually reversed the timeline Angel was in... or simply shunted the "bad stuff" into a different timeline.

Because if the pre-Reset timeline is still active somewhere out there in the multiverse... the idea of Angelus being Twilight might not be so impossible after all.

 

[Kean]

charmingslayer agrees: YEY I missed Gunn but now i feel bad for him I mean he was something he hated.God I wonder how the gang is gonna deal.

Gunn is essentially the Angel we first encountered in that alley in New York and the Angel we knew in Sunnydale. Wracked with the guilt for the things his demon did.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

The next issue is also where we find out whether Gunn lives or dies, and what he thinks about what happened to him in Hell-A.

And more Illyria, I hope. I've always liked Illyria as a character, but this is honestly the first time I've ever loved her.

 

[charmingslayer]

The next issue is also where we find out whether Gunn lives or dies, and what he thinks about what happened to him in Hell-A.

And more Illyria, I hope. I've always liked Illyria as a character, but this is honestly the first time I've ever loved her.

I know what you mean i love her now just knowing she feels is AWESOME lol.

 

[Clem Rocks]

it's not so much that they've seen the future. time in Hell-A was wonky, everything actualy happened, they were there for months, but in the real world, they were only gone for a moment, and yes, the rest of the world do know about it. but they had to have Angel alive again, they couldn't take one out of Hell-A, so the latest Angel they could take was the one in the alley-way, so they put him back there. no-one else mattered, it was just all about Angel.

 

[Frketson]

charmingslayer agrees: Maybe it's like The Wish but this time everyone remembers.

yeah i guess, but its still really confusing.

i just dont get what the point of everyone remembering everything is, it didnt happen anyway.

And wouldnt everyone be majorly confused as to what is happening?

 

[Kean]

yeah i guess, but its still really confusing.

i just dont get what the point of everyone remembering everything is, it didnt happen anyway.

And wouldnt everyone be majorly confused as to what is happening?

Of course it matters becuase the memories of the events in Hell make it real. Just as the events of IWRY are real to the Angel, because he remembers them.

The knowledge of Hell changes alot of things, we know Shanshu is Angel's (as the Wesley told us that), we know Fred is truly gone, Gunn will take a totally new path with the knowledge of what he became, Spike and Angel reconciled, Connor forgave and understood his father on new levels, also little things like we know that Angel can fight on as a human. he doesn't have to be a vamp to do be a Champion.

Some of these things are answers that we have been waitings seasons for.

Them remembering it changes everything!

 

[charmingslayer]

I completley agree with you Keo.

It's sad that Fred is REALLY gone I mean if you think about her life and how she was
its really really sad.

 

[Frketson]

Of course it matters becuase the memories of the events in Hell make it real. Just as the events of IWRY are real to the Angel, because he remembers them.

The knowledge of Hell changes alot of things, we know Shanshu is Angel's (as the Wesley told us that), we know Fred is truly gone, Gunn will take a totally new path with the knowledge of what he became, Spike and Angel reconciled, Connor forgave and understood his father on new levels, also little things like we know that Angel can fight on as a human. he doesn't have to be a vamp to do be a Champion.

Some of these things are answers that we have been waitings seasons for.

Them remembering it changes everything!

i get what your saying, but because in the end no one of those hell events actually happened, so none of it in theory is actually real.

ah who cares, im just nitpicking.

Im glad that everything (mostly) is back to normal!

 

[Clem Rocks]

one thing we forgot to mention, there's no more LA branch of Wolfram and Hart, in it's place is a vacant lot that is the future site of a Doublemeat Palace

 

[Kean]

one thing we forgot to mention, there's no more LA branch of Wolfram and Hart, in it's place is a vacant lot that is the future site of a Doublemeat Palace

Are you serious about the Doublemeat Palace thing? Cuz that just makes me smile...

Where are the crew hanging out now...the Hyperion?

 

[Clem Rocks]

Are you serious about the Doublemeat Palace thing? Cuz that just makes me smile...

Where are the crew hanging out now...the Hyperion?

And we don't know where they're hanging out yet
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Edit:
[br][/br]
"charmingslayer agrees: Is Angel carrying Gunn in that page?"

Yeah, that's where Gunn's injured by vamps and saved by Angel just before they try to sire him, Angel takes him to WR&H to try to heal him, but it's not there, so he takes him to hospital instead

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Wolfram & Hart told Angel the Hyperion was still standing, and he should get back there and continue to serve them. He told them to shove it. So I would guess Angel will specifically make a point of *not* returning to the Hyperion.

You know, the entire world is now going to think everyone in L.A. has gone insane. Because everybody there remembers spending months in Hell whereas to the rest of the world, nothing happened. I hope they'll deal with that point, but I suspect they won't.

I'm about 90% sure Gunn will die in the final issue. Because if he doesn't, it will mean Joss Whedon has given us an almost undiluted happy ending, and I don't think the universe could contain such blasphemy. (It will scare me if he does, because that means he's gonna really lower the boom on Buffy to make up for it. :-(

 

[Kean]

Wolfram & Hart told Angel the Hyperion was still standing, and he should get back there and continue to serve them. He told them to shove it. So I would guess Angel will specifically make a point of *not* returning to the Hyperion.

You know, the entire world is now going to think everyone in L.A. has gone insane. Because everybody there remembers spending months in Hell whereas to the rest of the world, nothing happened. I hope they'll deal with that point, but I suspect they won't.

I'm about 90% sure Gunn will die in the final issue. Because if he doesn't, it will mean Joss Whedon has given us an almost undiluted happy ending, and I don't think the universe could contain such blasphemy. (It will scare me if he does, because that means he's gonna really lower the boom on Buffy to make up for it. :-(

Will he though? Joss has maintained throughout the whole thing that ATF is not Angel season 6 but simply what happened immediately after season 5 left us hanging. To me that would mean the losses that were incurred in Not Fade Away (i.e Wesley and Lindsey) are the 'quota' of dead characters we usually get. In reality we are being left at the beginning of a season not the end of one. I think it would (from Joss's POV) make for a much more interesting story if Gunn survived and actually had to deal with what happened.

I know I keep harping on about this but I think if characters are going to be killed off it will happen during the 'Great Apocolypse' that both shows are building towards.