Frketson
The Late Goodbye
i really hope he doesnt, it will be very interesting to see what happens to him now.
Also i really dont think people need to die for no reason.
ANGEL After the Fall #16
- Thread starter VBG
- Start date
i really hope he doesnt, it will be very interesting to see what happens to him now.
Also i really dont think people need to die for no reason.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Well, he is the one who short-circuited the apocalypse and defeated Wolfram & Hart. I'm sure Angel will give him that point to think about. He'll also say, "All the evil stuff you did back there, Gunn? Yeah, that was a typical Sunday morning for me back in the day. Come on over tonight and we can brood together. I have Ingmar Bergman DVD's."
Which will almost certainly be at the end of Season 8, I think. Which means if they're going to merge the two storylines, they'll do it this season.
Who's got who in the season 8 death pool? I've got Xander and Giles.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
Considering Gunn wanted to die and Angel wouldn't let him, i'm guessing Gunn's gonna live and have to deal with his guilt
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I hate the popular vamps storyline.
OK, I'll preface what I'm about to say with: I think it's possible that Angel's just in a different Hell dimension right now with the city of LA. We've had two clues that things still aren't "right"
1.) The Wolfram & Hart Building vanished, even though it's only about 30 minutes after the last few minutes of "Not Fade Away,"
which makes absolutely no sense, it's like it was never there--Joss included that for a reason.
2.) The guy says to Angel that it doesn't make sense how everyone knows Angel's a Champion since only a few thousand people actually witnessed Angel's battle in HelLA, yet all the millions of LA seem to act like they saw it too.
OK, now assuming the above is wrong, and they're not in a different Hell:
I loved the issue, it was just very well done, I'd say around the quality of "Not Fade Away." I think I enjoyed reading this issue more than any other.
That being said if the whole, "LA's millions reveal to the world that demons are real, and this issue justifies Harmonic Divergence"--if that's true, while the issue was great, I think it's hurt the Buffyverse nearly irreparably. I doubt Joss would retcon both comics, so then the "Vamps are public & celebs" deal is now a big part of the Buffyverse, which I think cheapens it.
Angel said that he does what he does partly because the people he helps are overlooked by our society, and therefore vulnerable. If vamps are public knowledge, then the US government would obviously have managing them as part of Police officers', government agents', and the military's' jobs...
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I agree, especially with the supposed loss of Wesley, Angel won't lose 2 lieutenants. I don't know how hard it'll be for Gunn to get over it though. All the people he killed are A-OK now. I think Fred's death would still be the biggest part of his guilty conscience.
white avenger
white avenger
Well, all of this answers a question that keeps popping up. If all of After The Fall is a massive do-over, and everyone in LA know about it, AND Season 8 begins at least a few months later, then Buffy and her crew HAVE to know about it, including Spike being back. He just played too large a part in everything to not be noticed.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
I took that to mean that he saved ALOT of people in Hell-A. So many that almost everyone in LA knows he's a champion
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I don't know Clem. Remember, Angel was out of commission up until we saw him, between NFA & AtF #1, Connor & Spike were the primary champions in HelLA. AtF took place over what, a week or three? We saw most of what Angel did, the even that made him famous was when he beat the evil champions & lords, but as the guy said, only a few thousand were there, plus how could all of those who died while Angel was out of commission (probably millions) know about him?
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Well, remember that it appeared just as mysteriously in the first place... complete with a full staff.
Angel and Harmony notwithstanding... the logical first reaction of the world to this revelation would be similar to Oz's... that it explains a lot of things. And when people begin realizing just what those things are that it explains, the result would be about the same as you would expect if it were revealed that there was a highly-trained Al Qaeda sleeper agent living in every neighborhood in America.
Why are people overlooking the fact that almost all of the vampires are uncontrollable murderers?
It's silly to think that reality TV has the kind of power over the masses to overcome that. I could imagine pretending that it does as a form of wry, cynical social commentary, but it's just not plausible as an actual plot point in an otherwise serious story.
It could be that the whole world is under some kind of universal perception-changing spell of the "Jonathan is a superstar"/"Dawn has always been here" variety. But if so, that spell is strong enough to make the whole human race ignore the fact that they're being murdered on a daily basis by merciless killers who live among us and look just like us.
Anyone with access to such a spell would already rule the world without any contest.
I look forward to seeing how Joss & Co. are going to close up this particular can of worms.
Primal Slayer
Did I Fall Asleep?
I read it, I basically liked it, and I am glad that this part of Angels story is over and done with. And well that everyone except Wes came back to life.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
Well there was the fight against the champions, all the people he saved during the alleyway fight, and he did rounds after he healed a little. I'd say we can also assume he went on rounds in between comics.
And the guy actually explains it in the comics, they didn't all see him, they're just making it up to brag about it
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For anyone wanting more spoilers
Brian Lynch: Issue 16
and Brian says the next issue will reveal what happened with WF&H
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I wonder what the chances are that we'll actually get to see the Senior Partners.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
Well really it was just rebuilt/repaired, and the staff was most likely transferred in from other branches and/or resurrected. But that is a good point.
We're in the same boat. If some big reveal isn't made to pull this together, I'd say it's easily the worst arc Joss has put together. And when I say worst, I don't mean it's just because his others were so good. His others ranged from good to great, but this will be outright terrible if some sense isn't made from it.
No one saw the alley fight, Angel made a big point that Gunn was the only human there. Even if they were that wouldn't make them know Angel by name.
They're either lying or it's an unexplained phenomena. Given that only <10,000/~18,000,000 (<1/~1,800) were even at the battle and possibly dead, how would they know Angel's name anyway? The numbers can't add up and Joss isn't stupid, it has to mean something.
I know this sounds stupid but could word of mouth spread the news to the rest of the HElLA-eons? Or does it say specifically in the comic that they all saw it?
C
charmingslayer
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Clem Rocks
Scooby
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I still say they're just BS'ing to make themselves look cool
But how would they even know his name? Over 17,000,000 of LA's citizens weren't there and possibly dead. They were back for what, 5-minutes? So it can't even be argued that they saw it through the media.
I still say they're just BS'ing to make themselves look cool
Me too...I think it's pretty much like the Crucifiction thing that Spike talks about in Season 2. It's people trying to attach themselves to Angel any way they can. At least that's what I get from it.
Tranquillity
Yes! or Woodstock
A
Allycat
Guest
Sorry to join the discussion so late in the game, but I loved this issue. I think it connects a lot of things pretty well.
The whole twist where LA is returned to normal (sans W&H) was anything but pointless, as all the characters in the story were changed in smaller or larger ways. They may physically be the same as at the end of NFA, but as people they're different now.
As for the Harmonic Divergence problem. Only people in LA know about vampires and demons. People in other parts of the world are going to think they're crazy... at least initially. Until slowly but surely more and more people start to believe. And until finally, one of the MTV staffers living in LA meets Harmony and decides to put up a show.
The whole twist where LA is returned to normal (sans W&H) was anything but pointless, as all the characters in the story were changed in smaller or larger ways. They may physically be the same as at the end of NFA, but as people they're different now.
As for the Harmonic Divergence problem. Only people in LA know about vampires and demons. People in other parts of the world are going to think they're crazy... at least initially. Until slowly but surely more and more people start to believe. And until finally, one of the MTV staffers living in LA meets Harmony and decides to put up a show.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
With a little prodding from the Twilight Group and, maybe, Wolfram & Hart (assuming there's a difference between the two.)
They need to move fast, though, because unless the vampires learn how to behave themselves all of a sudden, the world's honeymoon with them is going to be a short one.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
Depends on if the spell theory pans out (I hope it does). If that's the case, then Vamps eating humans isn't a big deal. Jasmine ate humans after all...
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
The spell theory has a lot of holes, though. Why aren't the Slayers and Buffy's friends affected by it?