Angel ep by ep; FIVE BY FIVE-you gotta have FAITH!

[Ms.Trick]

I loved the scene where Faith dances and fight at the same time! *and the music was great*

Wesley was very brave in this episode, I loved him!

And of course, the final scene was very upsetting, with Faith begging Angel to kill her and all!

 

[VisionGirl]

First of all, interesting trivia:

Producer Tim Minear says because writer Jim Kouf was used to writing scripts for "big feature films", he occasionally "writes scenes that are not producible for a TV show because he is used to working with much more money." Kouf indicated that it should be raining during the final fight scene between Angel and Faith, but Minear decided the rain was too expensive, the "one extra technical complication that’s going to make shooting impossible." However, the night filming began for that scene was "the first night of a big torrential rain storm that we had for several days," Minear says.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_by_Five_(Angel)

I just think this episode is great the way it takes us to the highs and lows. You've got the flashbacks, & whether you like them or not they give good background & help to parallel what's happening with Faith; some super-funny lines from Cordy ("What's Angel gonna do? Drag a bunch of them [gypsies]in here to shove a soul down this guy's throat?"..."I guess you're right, Wesley. He's just like the Dalai Lama."); Lindsey & Lilah at WR&H; Phantom Dennis trying to protect Cordy; Wesley showing his mettle; Angel & Faith fight scene. All leading of course to Faith's breakdown.

I actually like this episode better than Sanctuary, except for the Buffy interaction which while not all that important to the story gives us some good Bangel drama (good being a relative term). For me this is one of those episodes that has it all.

 

[kristin1105]

Faith isn't my favourite character in the Buffyverse by a long shot. I don't really understand how people can like someone that is so cruel, nasty and psychotic! Obviously I don't like this episode for the same reasons. I hate HATE the Wesley torture scenes, I find them really difficult to watch. I understand what Joss and co were trying to achieve in this episode, and it's well done. It just happens to be something I don't enjoy. Does that make sense?

I feel the same way. My friend loves Faith and I dont understand why. It might be that she feels she can relate to Faith cause she has father issues but her mother loved her more than anything in the world so she relates more with buffy. I think.

I was watching Bad Girls last night and it really hit me how cold hearted she is when she told buffy she didnt care that she killed someone. And i totally see the lesbian subtext now LOL
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[msfantastico87]

I was watching Bad Girls last night and it really hit me how cold hearted she is when she told buffy she didnt care that she killed someone. And i totally see the lesbian subtext now LOL
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah at first I wanted to punch Faith for not caring about killing that man, but then the lesbian subtext came up and all the non-happy feelings went away and I just kept hoping for them to hook up 😉

 

[kristin1105]

Yeah at first I wanted to punch Faith for not caring about killing that man, but then the lesbian subtext came up and all the non-happy feelings went away and I just kept hoping for them to hook up 😉

Hahahaha high five for lesbian subtext!

Sorry I've been watching too much HIMYM recently and Barney is rubbing off on me.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[TheVoid68]

Double high-five for Fuffy subtext and HIMYM!

As for Faith "not caring", I always got the impression that she cared an awful lot, but was just too emotionally crippled to let herself admit it. You can see in "Sanctuary" that the event still haunts her.

 

[saturn5]

Double high-five for Fuffy subtext and HIMYM!

As for Faith "not caring", I always got the impression that she cared an awful lot, but was just too emotionally crippled to let herself admit it. You can see in "Sanctuary" that the event still haunts her.

Absolutely but our girl comes good because she is awe.....wait for it....some!

 

[Baby B]

I just watched this episode not to long ago and i loved when Faith came in. I loved how bad she was and she knew it too. Toward the end though you knew that she was broken inside. It was sad that she wanted Angel to kill her. i guess she realized in that moment how bad she really was. i think she wants to change but in my eyes she would always be the bad slayer. I mean come on she is Faith after all, but i do love her character. It was also crazy how she tortured Wes. It was amazing how into it she got. It was in my opinion one of the best episodes in Angel season 1

 

[Nightcrawler]

A little long post o.o

Faith is not cruel, nasty and psychotic. She always wanted to save people. It may look like she likes killing things, but indeed she wants to help people. Also, I can't remember she said anything rude to anyone before she became bad. It's only either flirting or joking. When she was bad is when she freaked out after killing Allan Finch. And I rather think of 'cruel, nasty and psychotic' as her mask.

I agree. She was alright before killing the guy. I think she was sooo shocked she put up this wall/mask whatever you wanna call it. In the beginning of this episode shes still in shock and collecting herself when she gets off the bus...looks like she hasn't had a good sleep in a while(even though shes been in a coma) and her mind is all over the place.

Anywayyy, this episode really got my heart pumping because well...Faith is my fav character lol>.< and she crosses over to Angel!

I was like 'hell ya!' when she wanted to kill Angel and wails on him...i was so mad when Angel and Buffy tricked/turned on her in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 'Enemies'. Another 'hell ya!' when she wails on Wesley and her whole little talk with him. Toward the end of Season 3 and a bit when she wakes up in Season 4 you start to feel more for Faith. Joss captures her pain and anger.

SoOoOo when she breaks down in the end of this episode, oh man I got teary eyed. All this anger/sorrow(self-hatred) built up inside her to the point she wants to die...take the easy way out...and Angel identifies with her, embracing her till she just crys herself to calm down in his arms was gold. She's messed up yeah no doubt...but gets help from our beloved Angel and slowly as the show goes on becomes a better person. Shes strong enough for that.

~Anyone notice the rain delay in the last fight between Angel and Faith? lol~

Sanctuary was a little sad cause Faith is trying to find a way to forgive herself with the help of Angel...and all these frecken peopel wanting her arrested or dead are in the way. In the end lmao i could've sword another fight on a rooftop was gonna happen but damn=/ Also took a lot of guts for Faith to turn herself in...psh thought she'd keep running.
This is one of the few episodes in the Buffyverse that I HATE Buffy Summers. WHY? Cause shes putting her nose into Angels/Faith's business. She has NO CLUE what Faith is going through and Angel and she wants to make the whole ending half all about her. No gfto lol>.< ANNND then she has the nerve to tell the vampire with a soul she has a boyfriend and they are sooo in love ugh...>.>

Faith wins again:3

 

[Mindfiend]

I feel the same way. My friend loves Faith and I dont understand why. I was watching Bad Girls last night and it really hit me how cold hearted she is when she told buffy she didnt care that she killed

Try rewatching that scene a couple of times, Kristin.

Have you ever heard the quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks."

What Faith is doing here is the same thing "“ avowing something over and over in order to therefore make it true. The more she thinks, and says, the words "I don't care" the more she hopes to convince everybody that that is the case.

The heartbreaking truth of Faith's nature is that the one person she hopes and needs desperately to convince that she doesn't care is herself, but of course she never can. You see, that's what a lot of fans never really get: that the Faith she shows the world isn't the real Faith. Far from not caring, she actually cares too deeply. So much so that it destroys her and sends her spiralling into darkness.

Have you seen her fight in the rainy alleyway with Angel in the Angel episode "Five by Five"? Listen to what she was begging him to do. That was her true feelings finally surfacing. After all that time pent up, living in denial but desperately seeking a way out of her tormented anguish and guilt, she can finally, to him, let it all out and show her true self, her true despair and self-loathing.

It's no accident that Faith runs from Sunnydale to Los Angeles. Angel is the only one to ever show her he understands. However, by this point she doesn't want his understanding, she wants the one thing that will free her from her own self-inflicted Hell. She doesn't take the contract on him from Wolfram and Hart because she actually wants to kill him, quite the opposite. Her actions in LA and with Wesley are done specifically, as Connor Holtz posted so clearly above here, to force Angel into killing her and putting her out of her misery. Have you heard the American phrase "suicide by cop"?

Fortunately, Angel understands that too, and won't play his role, instead offering her redemption instead of condemnation and damnation. (is hat too many "tion"s in one sentence? 😀 )

 

[white avenger]

This episode, combined with the previous two on "Buffy," and the conclusion on "Angel" comprise what is undoubtedly my favorite story arc/crossover in the entire Buffyverse and illustrates perfectly something that has been discussed here many times before. In order to actually come into their own, the characters simply MUST get away from Buffy's shadow. Faith, Angel, Wes, Cordy, and, as we saw in Season 5 of "Angel," Spike, could never fully come into their own around the overwhelming power of the Slayer's presence. I'm not sure if that is the natural plan as devised by Whedon (it is, after all, referred to as the "Buffyverse" for a reason) the power of Sarah's portrayal, or a combination of the two, but it's just too consistent to be a coincidence. Spike may be the Big Bad, but Buffy is without doubt the Big Good of the series, and anyhting or anyone else is just along for support.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Lol Kristin was going to explain that but BAM Mindfied pretty much got it and wraped it up so nicely. 😛

I think she wanted to put this image of not caring as if she was in denial of killing the guy...hoping it'll go away and people would like forget. But yea lol kinda hard to forget.

Did she kill the dude in the beginning of this episode or is like a missing person lol cause i remember you see the cops going to his apt and looking through it.

 

[kristin1105]

Try rewatching that scene a couple of times, Kristin.

I actually happen to catch that episode today and I get it now. I might have missed it because I didn't really like Buffy until season 4. I think I should re-watch S1 - S3 now.

 

[TheVoid68]

Lol Kristin was going to explain that but BAM Mindfied pretty much got it and wraped it up so nicely. 😛

I think she wanted to put this image of not caring as if she was in denial of killing the guy...hoping it'll go away and people would like forget. But yea lol kinda hard to forget.

Did she kill the dude in the beginning of this episode or is like a missing person lol cause i remember you see the cops going to his apt and looking through it.

At first, she just put him in the hospital. He must have died later though, due to the fact that Angel enters his apartment without trouble.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Waiiit whose the second person she kills? 😵

 

[Mindfiend]

Waiiit whose the second person she kills? 😵

In the episode "Choices" she uses a bow and arrow to kill the human courier of the box of Gavroc. Then she has to use her shiny new knife to cut off his hand to get the cuffs off.

Vamp: "That won't cut through steel."
Faith: "No, but it will cut through bone."

 

[methos]

possibly my favorite episode of Angel... an episode that really showed the truth of Faith's character in my eyes... showing that she either wanted to die or wanted someone to help her come back from the edge as she didn't feel she was strong enough to do it herself.

As a Faith fan, this episode always stood out to me as being her best storyline 😀

M

 

[Seeing Red]

10/10 I LOVE this episode. But then again any ep with Faith in it is AMAZING.

 

[PassionBecoming]

First time watching this ep - SO GREAT to see the story behind Faith ending up in LA. Love how Angel and Faith have parallel characters now.

Ooo, Angel just found out about Riley. LOVE IT!