Angel is not an original chararcter

The idea of Angel isn't "stolen" from Interview with a Vampire. The idea of the brooding hero with a cross to bear is an archetype. Angel and Louis are both heros of that archetype who happen to be vampires, since they appear in works ABOUT VAMPIRES. There are thousands and thousands of other heros of that archetype throughout literature, tv and movies.

Just like there are really only seventeen basic stories in the world, and all stories are a variation on one of those seventeen, there are also a finite number of personality types. Using archetypes allows you, as the viewer, to immediately respond to and identify with characters as they are introduced. One of the strenghts of Buffy is the way Joss took arcehtypal personalities (the "insecure nerd", the "popular bitchy girl") and toyed with them and made them compelling and interesting and eventually allowed the characters to grow.
 
Originally posted by LazyDolphin
The idea of Angel isn't "stolen" from Interview with a Vampire. The idea of the brooding hero with a cross to bear is an archetype. Angel and Louis are both heros of that archetype who happen to be vampires, since they appear in works ABOUT VAMPIRES. There are thousands and thousands of other heros of that archetype throughout literature, tv and movies.

Just like there are really only seventeen basic stories in the world, and all stories are a variation on one of those seventeen, there are also a finite number of personality types. Using archetypes allows you, as the viewer, to immediately respond to and identify with characters as they are introduced. One of the strenghts of Buffy is the way Joss took arcehtypal personalities (the "insecure nerd", the "popular bitchy girl") and toyed with them and made them compelling and interesting and eventually allowed the characters to grow.
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why didn't I say this?
 
i think LD answered the question very nicely, now if only i had been intelligent enough to know what archetype meant, hey look im learning things from this site.....!
 
LOL! The only person Angel ever reminded me of was Batman...

I'm sure that ALL of the characters were based on some other people wether it was done by the writers, Joss, or the actors themselves...but I think that all of them are quite original. I don't think there's a character in existance that wouldn't remind us of some other person at some time. No personality is THAT original...lol
 
Okay mybe but look at this

Okay so i guess in a way you are right.
However don't you think that some of the scenes in Interview with the Vampire. Joss has taken at least some inspiration from.
Such as that scene where Louis feels so guilty after killing Claudia or when Louis is in the street catching all those rats and eating them.
For those have seen Interview with the vampire or have read the book doesn't that scene look kinda familiar to the scene in the Buffy episode The Becoming Part 1 where Angel is in the sewers feeding on rats.
Or don't you think the scene where Lestat is with those 2 whores and he puts one in a coffin and after biting her Lestat put her into a coffin and she is wondering whether she is dead and Lestat is trying so hard to convince Louis to turn her, but Louis is trying to resist. Is similar to the scene in the Angel episode Darla, where Darla is trying to convince Angel to kill the baby.
In Interview... Louis leaves the room without saying a word and in Darla Angel jumps out the window.
 
Just reead LD's post. There's a million moments in TV, movies, books, etc. that you can compare Angel to. Angel is Joss's own creation in some way for Joss shaped the character and the mythology.
 
but you yourself said "Inspiration", Charisma, totally different than stealing ideas, and besides those scenes could have easily been a coincedence and most likely were
 
I'm siding with Charisma on this one,

I have both read the book interview with a Vampire, and seen the movie. I think Angel was in a way mimicked after Louis, But I'd take it one step further, and say that Angelus was kind of a Mirror of Lestat. Lestat is a particularly nasty vampire, from what I remember. (Although in general Ann Rices depiction of Vamps is vastly different, than that of Joss') There is a part in the Book Interview with a vampire, where Lestat has been outcast by Vampires, and after 100 years, he is weak, and nasty, and barely eats at all. Much in the way that they portrayed Angel in those Flashbacks of Becoming 1. There are surely a limited number of stories, Archtypes and what have you. But that doesn't mean that Angel couldn't have been somewhat plagerized, in the qualities of his character. I don't know if it was mentioned, But in school hard, the first ep we see Spike, Spike says to Angel, "Oh you're still trying that whole Anne Rice routine are you?".
 
But in school hard, the first ep we see Spike, Spike says to Angel, "Oh you're still trying that whole Anne Rice routine are you?".
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Thanks Blake, there you go you can quite clearly that Joss has taken atleast some inspiration from the character of Louis in Interview with the Vampire.
Another aspect which shows that Joss has taken inspiration from the character of Louis is that in Interview with the vampire that in noth the book and the movie Louis states that " I feed on those who cross my path".
In the episode Darla, something pretty much the same happens in a scene when Angel enters the room Darla asks him where he has been.
Darla: Where have you been,
Angel: Darla?
Darla: Answer me!
Angel: Just out, why?
Darla: Feeding? On vermin?
Darla: Don't lie to me.
Angel: Look, I've killed men, you've seen it.
Darla: Rapists and murders. thieves and scoundrels! Did you think I wouldn't notice? Only evil doers, that's all you hunt now. !
This shows that it is revealed that he did feed on rapists and murderers to survive. He didn't consider them to be true human beings. This is quite similar to Louis isn't it
 
In Lies My Parents Told Me Spike and his mother's relationship is similar to that of Lestat and his mother's in Anne Rice's books. Angel is sort of similar to Louis, as said. But Joss didn't base the whole character on another one.
 
I'm sure he didn't he did definately make his own, but I still think alot of his characters were obviously inspired. I wonder if Drusila is loosely modeled after Claudia? what do you all think?
 
Originally posted by blake
I'm sure he didn't he did definately make his own, but I still think alot of his characters were obviously inspired. I wonder if Drusila is loosely modeled after Claudia? what do you all think?
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Actually that just might be true but as you said loosely not completley, however that childlike behaviour of Drusilla. The fact that she has dolls even when she is very old.
Although unlike Drusilla,Claudia is not a vampire which is insane although that actually is quite a good point.
 
In Never Leave Me Andrew is wearing a long leather duster like Spike's. The duster is also reminiscent of the thing Neo wears in The Matrix.

In fact later in Never Leave Me, Andrew walks into a butcher shop, and the butcher calls him Neo.

Does this mean the Buffy writers stole the character of Spike, or more humorously, Andrew, from The Matrix. I don't think so.

Staying with Never Leave and the Butcher Shop scene for a minute, I can tell you that whole scene was pretty much done in an old movie called "Summer of 42", except that time it was done with condoms not blood.

Does that mean Drew Goddard the writer of Never Leave Me stole the scene, or was he paying homage to it? Was he even aware of the similarities, or was it a subconscious thing? Does it even matter?

The worm creature from Beneath You is an obvious tip of the hat to to the movie Tremors. Is it really theft, or is it a homage, or just another Buffy cultural reference, like Xander mentioning M. Knight Shamala, or the cape and cowl from Scream 2 hanging above the bedroom door in his apartment?

In Help the teenager Buffy helps has powers of prophecy. Here name is Cassie. There was a mythic prophetess from Greek Mythology named Cassandra. Was Rebecca Kirshner (the writer of Help) aware of this? I'd be willing to bet on it. Did she steal the character of Cassandra? Give me a break.

Rayne mentioned Batman. I also see the similarities between Angel and Batman--a dark avenging hero, plagued by the guilt of his past. I'll bet you anything Joss knows a lot about Batman. Does this mean he stole the character of Batman.? You might as well say Ann Rice stole her characters from the television soap opera Dark Shadows. It makes as much sense.
 
I did not say that Joss stole the idea of Louis from the book Interview with the vampire I said inspired.
Also in Lies my parents told me the comment that the Butcher makes to Andrews is a cultural reference not a direct copy
 
That's true Charisma, you didn't, but here's the problem: You have yet to say exactly what you're implying. As a result I've heard others on this thread go off in radical directions and mention concepts like plagiary. That idea is just, plain nutty.

Someone else offered up a cultural reference concerning Anne Rice made by a Buffy Character as proof Whedon stole Angel from Rice.

These kinds of comments are of course nonsense, and they are spun off from a lack of clarity in what exactly you are saying.

Are you saying Interview With a Vampire may have had some influence on certain, tiny aspects of the Angel character, or the Angel series?

I don't have a problem with that. The Buffyverse in general is a cultural soup. There may very well be a little Anne Rice in there.

But if you're saying there couldn't be Angel without Anne Rice, I'd beg to differ.

Hey...wouldn't it be cool if Anne Rice wrote an Angel episode?
 
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