Anybody else ever feel a bit sad about the way the show ends for Bangel?

As for the soul stuff, I’ve come to like it, they didn’t go in depth enough before that really. It was more Angel has a soul and now he is a different person. But once they gave Spike one, and already with the chip and all, it started more thoughts on what is the soul really and what does it mean, they kind of had to dig into it abd compare the two characters, which is part of what starts interesting discussions to this day.

Unfortunately for me it’s far too inconsistently written for it to be an interesting debate, and I just find the constant comparison of the two absolutely exhausting and it saps my enthusiasm for the fandom. I found Spike far more interesting as a morally ambiguous vampire without a soul, and Angel and Spike were still unique.
 
I was sad and also disappointed. After that part of the Cookie Dough speech where the door was left open for Buffy and Angel to be together again this time to stay together. All the mentions in Angel S5 and Angels words about Buffy gave me further hope. There was so much build-up and then nothing.
Reuniting Buffy and Angel was the right thing to do and doing right by the characters. It would have been natural and what I think Buffy and Angel as characters would have done if given the opportunity.
It will never sit right by me that in all probability there will not be more Bangel since there was such potential for more.
 
I don't really mind how it ended. I think Buffy ending up single worked well with the female empowerment stuff, and there was hope they could get together again with the cookie dough speech. Honestly, it would have been weird to do anything more because of the Spuffy stuff happening that Season, and how they've barely seen each other the last few years.
 
I always found Angel and Buffy's relationship to be a bit squicky, because of her age. Nevertheless, I agree that Bangel was shortchanged at the end. In a typical show (one not run by JW who wants every relationship to end unhappily), I think they would have come back together in the end, more mature and in a better place for a serious relationship.

Angel and Buffy are not in each other’s lives anymore and should be moving on and each of them get to decide the best way to do that in their own lives. I’ve had exes that I’ve loved date people I’ve hated years after we broke up…..it’s not about me I wasn’t bitter about it nor did I have the right to be.
Angel doesn't get a say in Buffy's future relationships, but usually it's considered good etiquette to give an ex a heads-up if you start dating their relative or good friend. Spike wasn't exactly either, but they did hang around together for a long time, so I think it counts! The thing is, Buffy wasn't telling anyone about her and Spike.

I've never understood the feeling that Spike's soul journey took away from Angel's. Their experiences and reactions are so completely different, and both add depth to a topic that I find one of the most fascinating in the show. I think this would have become really clear if AtS had lasted another season, with both of them on it.
 
I was into Buffy and Angel in seasons 1-3, but it ended for me there because I didn't feel there was anywhere for that story to go unless he got his Jekyll & Hyde Angel/Angelus-ness resolved or he Shanshued. I didn't mind when he'd drop in on BTVS after he left bc I felt like they were showing them moving into this new phase of accepting it's over but still caring deeply for each other which I ultimately think is a really lovely and mature place for them to come to rest.

As for Angel leaving so Buffy could have a 'normal life', I agree with others who have said that's up to Buffy to decide, not Angel, but also... She's the Slayer. She's not gonna have a normal life (she might be able to choose that to a degree after Chosen, but that's years down the line). There's a reason she only really seems able to open up to vampires more than her own (human) friends and I absolutely second what @Taake says regarding that and Spike in particular about needing someone who understands, who is her equal.

Spike was the partner who, though he tried to drag her into the darkness with him, so to speak, actually learned to just accept Buffy where she was in life. Both Angel and Riley were trying to force her into places where she just wasn’t yet, emotionally (Angel orienting a young woman likely to die young towards the future… it is good of him in a way, but it is also him telling her what she will want eventually, which is actually not a guarantee, just an assumption on what most people want. While Riley is trying to orient her towards a commitment she is not ready for, again, orienting her towards a future he deems desirable, failing to accept her now)

It's exactly that. One of the most striking things to me that seems to be forgotten about a lot re: S6 Spike/Buffy (sorry I really dislike the portmanteaus for all the ships lol) is that before it went bad, Spike was the only one who allowed her the space to feel how she felt about what was done to her/what she had experienced in the wake of it and he did it automatically from the second she came down those stairs. He instantly understood and didn't barrage her with questions, he asked Dawn for bandages so he could take care of her in a physical way and he let her say whatever she wanted or didn't want to say which was taking care of her in an emotional way. He gave her space and he did it instinctually and he did it over and over again. His saying "you're a creature of the dark like me" while low-key self-serving and misguided (imo it only gets high-key once he starts receiving confirmation from her that it's true), he's not wrong about that and to a point, he has a point. I genuinely think even though it's what he wants, he also genuinely believes that Buffy will be better off with him (it's that skewed perspective thing that he can't see is skewed until he has his soul) just as Angel believes she'd be better off without him.

Either way, imo the ultimate point of the Spike/Buffy story in these later seasons is about Buffy learning to reconcile and accept the dark parts of herself and having the kind of power she has (which is demonic in nature). It's the shadow selves thing - her acceptance of Spike and allowing herself to care for (or love) him without punishing herself (or him) is ultimately an acceptance of herself and her whole self as she is - good parts and bad, light and dark - the show goes out of its way mirroring them both in costume and moments and lines and it's all deliberate (tumblr is overflowing with callouts here going back to S2). There's a reason why she's drawn to him in the seasons where she is actively interrogating what it means to be a Slayer and her acceptance of herself as not Buffy and The Slayer as two separate things that are constantly at (painful) odds with each other (which was another really compelling layer of connection between her and Angel back then), but Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all that that means and entails. Growing up is realizing that things - the world, ourselves, others - are not black and white but varying shades of gray. Spike is the guy for that part of the journey.

I think Angel was the right person for Buffy in terms of what she needed to learn to grow into the person she's becoming in those early seasons, but he doesn't really know who Buffy is anymore by S6 or 7. She is not the same girl she was back then. She's not a girl at all. I respect and genuinely appreciate the Buffy/Angel storyline and ship for where it sits within the narrative and what it was doing back then, but imo what Buffy/Spike brings up and interrogates is more in line with where the show ends up going by the end. It's really just about preference and what interests us individually. The fact that either of these ships are still being talked about so passionately after almost 25 years says a lot about both of them and how compelling and meaningful they each are. And honestly, the fact that the Buffy/Angel story endures as much as it does even though it did effectively come to an end in S3, says a lot as well.

At the end of the day, I do have sympathy for folks who really love Buffy/Angel in particular and aren't satisfied with what happens between them, but the door wasn't closed which I think is maybe the best thing JW and co. could have done so we could all choose for ourselves what happens or if anything happens at all with anyone and we can all be right 😉. It's a gift, I think, whether we're Team Buffy/Angel, Team Buffy/Spike, or Team Buffy/Herself.
 
think Angel was the right person for Buffy in terms of what she needed to learn to grow into the person she's becoming in those early seasons, but he doesn't really know who Buffy is anymore by S6 or 7. She is not the same girl she was back then. She's not a girl at all.


This. So many people are disappointed that they didn’t ride off into the sunset after Chosen. I think that while they consider each other their soulmate, probably due to being forced apart by circumstance rather than the relationship coming to a natural end, they are different people. Picking up 5 years later like nothing has changed is sitcom happy ending that just wouldn’t feel organic.
 
I was into Buffy and Angel in seasons 1-3, but it ended for me there because I didn't feel there was anywhere for that story to go unless he got his Jekyll & Hyde Angel/Angelus-ness resolved or he Shanshued. I didn't mind when he'd drop in on BTVS after he left bc I felt like they were showing them moving into this new phase of accepting it's over but still caring deeply for each other which I ultimately think is a really lovely and mature place for them to come to rest.

As for Angel leaving so Buffy could have a 'normal life', I agree with others who have said that's up to Buffy to decide, not Angel, but also... She's the Slayer. She's not gonna have a normal life (she might be able to choose that to a degree after Chosen, but that's years down the line). There's a reason she only really seems able to open up to vampires more than her own (human) friends and I absolutely second what @Taake says regarding that and Spike in particular about needing someone who understands, who is her equal.



It's exactly that. One of the most striking things to me that seems to be forgotten about a lot re: S6 Spike/Buffy (sorry I really dislike the portmanteaus for all the ships lol) is that before it went bad, Spike was the only one who allowed her the space to feel how she felt about what was done to her/what she had experienced in the wake of it and he did it automatically from the second she came down those stairs. He instantly understood and didn't barrage her with questions, he asked Dawn for bandages so he could take care of her in a physical way and he let her say whatever she wanted or didn't want to say which was taking care of her in an emotional way. He gave her space and he did it instinctually and he did it over and over again. His saying "you're a creature of the dark like me" while low-key self-serving and misguided (imo it only gets high-key once he starts receiving confirmation from her that it's true), he's not wrong about that and to a point, he has a point. I genuinely think even though it's what he wants, he also genuinely believes that Buffy will be better off with him (it's that skewed perspective thing that he can't see is skewed until he has his soul) just as Angel believes she'd be better off without him.

Either way, imo the ultimate point of the Spike/Buffy story in these later seasons is about Buffy learning to reconcile and accept the dark parts of herself and having the kind of power she has (which is demonic in nature). It's the shadow selves thing - her acceptance of Spike and allowing herself to care for (or love) him without punishing herself (or him) is ultimately an acceptance of herself and her whole self as she is - good parts and bad, light and dark - the show goes out of its way mirroring them both in costume and moments and lines and it's all deliberate (tumblr is overflowing with callouts here going back to S2). There's a reason why she's drawn to him in the seasons where she is actively interrogating what it means to be a Slayer and her acceptance of herself as not Buffy and The Slayer as two separate things that are constantly at (painful) odds with each other (which was another really compelling layer of connection between her and Angel back then), but Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all that that means and entails. Growing up is realizing that things - the world, ourselves, others - are not black and white but varying shades of gray. Spike is the guy for that part of the journey.

I think Angel was the right person for Buffy in terms of what she needed to learn to grow into the person she's becoming in those early seasons, but he doesn't really know who Buffy is anymore by S6 or 7. She is not the same girl she was back then. She's not a girl at all. I respect and genuinely appreciate the Buffy/Angel storyline and ship for where it sits within the narrative and what it was doing back then, but imo what Buffy/Spike brings up and interrogates is more in line with where the show ends up going by the end. It's really just about preference and what interests us individually. The fact that either of these ships are still being talked about so passionately after almost 25 years says a lot about both of them and how compelling and meaningful they each are. And honestly, the fact that the Buffy/Angel story endures as much as it does even though it did effectively come to an end in S3, says a lot as well.

At the end of the day, I do have sympathy for folks who really love Buffy/Angel in particular and aren't satisfied with what happens between them, but the door wasn't closed which I think is maybe the best thing JW and co. could have done so we could all choose for ourselves what happens or if anything happens at all with anyone and we can all be right 😉. It's a gift, I think, whether we're Team Buffy/Angel, Team Buffy/Spike, or Team Buffy/Herself.
The majority of my dissatisfaction comes more from Angel just becoming less unique overall, Bangel is less unique too. The writing around Spike in the last couple of seasons does nothing but take away from both Angel and Spike’s uniqueness for me. And the ridiculously inconsistent handling of the Vampire versus the soul between the two of them which just leads to ridiculous debates that just suck the life out of the fandom.
 
I always found Angel and Buffy's relationship to be a bit squicky, because of her age. Nevertheless, I agree that Bangel was shortchanged at the end. In a typical show (one not run by JW who wants every relationship to end unhappily), I think they would have come back together in the end, more mature and in a better place for a serious relationship.


Angel doesn't get a say in Buffy's future relationships, but usually it's considered good etiquette to give an ex a heads-up if you start dating their relative or good friend. Spike wasn't exactly either, but they did hang around together for a long time, so I think it counts! The thing is, Buffy wasn't telling anyone about her and Spike.

I've never understood the feeling that Spike's soul journey took away from Angel's. Their experiences and reactions are so completely different, and both add depth to a topic that I find one of the most fascinating in the show. I think this would have become really clear if AtS had lasted another season, with both of them on it.

I know Joss Whedon would not have let them have a happy ending. Buffy and Angel deserved one though after all the sacrifices they had made and putting the world before their relationship. Buffy’s age never bothered me because being a Slayer had matured her and she was more mature than her peers. Buffy was actually older than her chronological age.

It is true what you posted about Angel and Spike but Splke or any other male vampire getting his soul restored and having one means Angel is not as unique a character as he was before it happened.
 
I agree with a lot of the OP's statement. S2 & s3 are def the highest points of the show and a lot of that had to do with Angel. After Angel's exit, the show changes drastically in tone. I still enjoy s4 & s5 quite a bit, but s6 & s7 really start to lose me.
But back to the original question- I remember the first time I watched the show and watching Angel leave at the end of s3 actually broke my heart. I kept hoping Bangel would eventually get back together and it kinda soured the show for me when that did not happen. After several rewatches, I am at peace with Bangel's ending. They were doomed from the start- star crossed lovers at their finest. The only way Bangel ends up together is if Angel becomes human. Even if he fixes his soul/happiness clause- he is still a vampire and she is still human. He will never age and she will. Their love story is tragically beautiful. And I'm here for all the heartbreak.

Also the ending in Buffy s7 & Angel s5 were both left open enough for the audience to fill in whatever story they want to play out. So I pretend Angel becomes human at some point & Bangel gets to live happily ever after.
 
The majority of my dissatisfaction comes more from Angel just becoming less unique overall, Bangel is less unique too. The writing around Spike in the last couple of seasons does nothing but take away from both Angel and Spike’s uniqueness for me. And the ridiculously inconsistent handling of the Vampire versus the soul between the two of them which just leads to ridiculous debates that just suck the life out of the fandom.
I think that this is a debate for another thread, but we only have two points of observations of a vampire with a soul: Angel and Spike. I don't think it is inconsistent per se. Different people make different vampires as answered/debated in another thread, which would be consistent with the fact that different vampires with a soul will be different as well. If we had more observations, I think it'd be more interesting.

Regarding Bangel, why do you think that Bangel is less unique? I feel that they are very different relationships. Is it because of the repetition of a vampire with a soul in a relationship with the slayer?
 
Regarding Bangel, why do you think that Bangel is less unique? I feel that they are very different relationships. Is it because of the repetition of a vampire with a soul in a relationship with the slayer?

Yes it takes it from being unique to not at all unique. It just makes it a trope of the show, rather than something quite beautiful and poignant. It’s the least imaginative thing they could possibly have done with Spike, especially as they don’t even differentiate his personality with and without a soul, it’s like they just wanted the excuse to keep the relationship going but without the problems. The way fans perceive it is bonkers too. ‘Oh Spike’s better because he got his soul’ (but spike is different than spike without a soul?) ‘oh you can’t blame spike for the rape, he didn’t have a soul’ (then you can’t credit him for getting his soul….)
 
It's one of those things that I was greatly upset about when I got to watch BTVS the first time around because I was a massive BAngel stans.
I love their journey as a couple with all the highs and lows that their relationship entailed.
I connected with them from very their very first scene together and have never let them go completely as on re-watches, I'm still enthralled by their love story.
I am one of those that absolutely feel putting Buffy in another relationship with a vampire who gets a soul does make the specialness of the Bangel relationship less special. And for me it doesn't make a difference that they came at the Buffy and Spike relationship from a different angle and perspective, it's still basically about a souled vampire being in love with a slayer.
I'm just glad they had the good sense to NOT have Angel do the same with Faith because it would really feel like rinse and repeat for the THIRD time!

As for Buffy and Angel not getting there happy ending at end of BTVS or even ATS, well again, I was disappointed when I originally watch but many years later and life experience gained, I think it was the right ending for the both of them.
There was some possibility of them eventually reuniting down the road if you choose to see it that way for them and for those that don't, well they can believe that Buffy will move onto someone else.

Of course the comics that came out since the show ended continues both their journeys and again its up to the individual to take them on board or disregard them which I do because I'm not down with the endless need to character assassinate Angel with the same repetitive story line and have certain hypocrite characters judge him so badly.

I think that if Angel was to become human like he wants to then it could happen for them and I've rad a few Bangel fanfics that have done this beautifully. I do feel this is why ultimately they would still have a chance because it want they both desire for Angel. And they still have their deep connection and also understanding and respect of each other while going on with their lives separately.
It was eventually to be a timing ìssue with them as well as Angel's vampiness causing their break-up so it feels like it not a true closure for them.
Is it a fantasy and unrealistic in thinking of a happy ending for them, yes but as a fictional coupling we have the luxury of choosing what we want for them or any other pairings we love regardless of what has been written which is the beauty that is fanfiction.
 
Angel6
Angel6
Yes the comics truly continues the dire writing of season 6 and 7 for me and the writer even revealed they hadn’t watched an episode of ‘Angel’ at all. Criminal.
I do feel sorry for the lovers of Bangel but Buffy did prefer the lighter colour of hair, be that peroxide or radioactive.
 
Oh, I so agree.
Buffy and Angel had an incredible bond, and no matter how Romeo and Juliet they were at times, the connection was there, and it never felt over dramatic or frilly.
but with Spike, there was never actually a connection. She hated him the whole time, and the point of their relationship was that she was having problems. But so many people liked that clearly toxic relationship, for reasons I still don’t understand (but whatever floats their boat I guess) so the writers decided to keep shoving them together. They did majorly chicken out and not actually make them end up together, so that’s good, but still.
I didn’t like that they worked so hard, and bent so many rules, and wasted so much time trying to make Spike redeemable. He was all pathetic and sympathetic for 1 season, then he went onto Angel, and was the same self serving punk as before. Don’t get me wrong, I like the self serving punk. He was funny when he was a punk, and was actually a super enjoyable character.
 
No I’m fine with it, and I’m way more team Angel then Spike. But Buffy and Angel were both at different points in life. Also the rarely interacted after she went to college.
 
My memories are extremely dusty about this but I remember being disappointed watching it the first time because I expected a bit more and on both shows it felt like poor choices were made relationship wise and certain things happened because it was just there or easier to go with rather than to add something new. I haven't read the comics and I don't care about them but I think we can exist in the bit that's left from the show. The cookie analogy leaves room for that ^^ The buffy universe is so huge everything could happen. I think ultimately they'll learn to accept what is. They can't be normal, they can't be perfect but they can be something together. They've tried the whole going different ways, not being in each other's lives and trying to forget and it didn't seem to get any better for either of them so I guess yeah, they'll reach that level of acceptance and work from there. One step at the time, together and make it work with whatever they have or can get in this huuuuuuge universe again.
 
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