Anyone else who didn't really care for Satsu?

[Robb Stark]

Prior to reading S8, I'd heard a ton about Satsu, and I mean a TON. Aside from just being the girl that Buffy experimented with, I was really hoping she'd be a cool character and play a big role in S8 as well. Instead, to be honest, I found her to be a bit of a bitca.

She's cool at the start, but quickly goes downhill. Now, I thought it was a dumb decision for Buffy to sleep with her in the first place, but the attitude that Satsu develops after finding out that Buffy clearly isn't gay is kind of annoying. She directly disobeys orders in the middle of a battle and then when goes ballistic when Kennedy comes to do a performance review, despite the fact that Buffy has promoted her. She strikes me as a little entitled.

And in the Twilight arc, I just rolled my eyes. I can understand her being upset that Buffy is sleeping with someone else, although it was kind of implied that she was over Buffy at the end of her issue with Kennedy, but to storm out in the middle of an Armageddon scale crisis and not help because your feelings are, a little unjustifiably, hurt just reeked of arrogance.

I guess I just don't really understand why she's so popular.

 

[white avenger]

I never disliked Satsu, but I never really liked her, either. She was one of those characters who had potential, but was never really developed as well or as much as she should have been. It's almost as if Joss wanted to sort of acknowledge all of the Fuffy and Bwillow shippers without actually getting Buffy romantically involved with either Faith or Willow. Plus, it would have been bad if she had slept with one of them AND had the hots for Xander.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

She was my favorite new character in the comics so far, and one of my favorite things about Season 8.

 

[Kean]

Personally, I liked her because the brief relationship she had with Buffy seemed like such a good experience for Buffy. I have issues with Buffy sleeping with someone in her charge but other than that I was just happy to see Buffy have a positive sexual experience again. I was even happier to see how it ended in a mature and kind way. At least for Buffy it did.

I never really thought about how Satsu reacted to Buffy sleeping with Angel, but you have a point, it was really childish for her to storm out of the Apocalypse like that.

 

[EVIL UU]

Now, I'm not some huge Satsu fan, that would be [MENTION=8509]AndrewCrossett[/MENTION] but next to a corpse who raped her, a corpse who tried to rape her, guy who cheated on her with a corpse and Parker she's a freaking gift from the gods. Satsu isn't that amazing, she's actually pretty normal minus the slayer part of course, but next to Buffy's usual freak show, well, she is amazing.
[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]

And in the Twilight arc, I just rolled my eyes. I can understand her being upset that Buffy is sleeping with someone else, although it was kind of implied that she was over Buffy at the end of her issue with Kennedy, but to storm out in the middle of an Armageddon scale crisis and not help because your feelings are, a little unjustifiably, hurt just reeked of arrogance.

When that someone else is a bastard who send her to a hospital, murdered hundreds of her sisters, turned her life into a living hell and is personally responsible for said apocalypse, you know, I believe she has the right to be a little pissed off. Look, it's not even jealousy, it's like Wait, did I really love that backstabbing bitch? Screw this shit! Yeah.

Instead, to be honest, I found her to be a bit of a bitca.

Well, she has one thing Buffy's lovers generally lack and that's self-respect. She simply refuses to take Buffy's shit, like you know, normal people.
[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]

it was really childish for her to storm out of the Apocalypse like that.

Buffy betrayed them. At this point the slayer army doesn't exist any more, the general switched sides and is sleeping with the enemy. Like literally. What a kick in the teeth. You can't expect a soldier to keep fighting in such situation.

 

[Kean]

Buffy betrayed them. At this point the slayer army doesn't exist any more, the general switched sides and is sleeping with the enemy. Like literally. What a kick in the teeth. You can't expect a soldier to keep fighting in such situation.

We've seen people continue to fight in the face of much greater betrayal during far less threatening attacks. I'm not saying Buffy was in the right, (I'm not getting into the whole Twilight thing because it is literally a road to nowhere in terms of discussion) but at the end of the day, if you are a slayer who has taken up the cause, you stay and you fight. Even if the person you have to fight is the person you love. It didn't matter if the slayer army was a functioning unit, she was still a slayer. The world was ending, she was chosen and had made the personal choice to fight. She had responsibilities beyond Buffy and her army.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]

She had responsibilities beyond Buffy and her army.

No. Slayers can choose not to fight, it's their decision and most of them don't. Satsu joined Buffy's army to fight but without the army she's free to do what she wants, like every other 2003 slayer. Look, this isn't about some supernatural calling any more, like with Buffy, those girls know the truth about the origins of their power.

 

[Kean]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]


No. Slayers can choose not to fight, it's their decision and most of them don't. Satsu joined Buffy's army to fight but without the army she's free to do what she wants, like every other 2003 slayer. Look, this isn't about some supernatural calling any more, like with Buffy, those girls know the truth about the origins of their power.

Yes, and they chose to fight. We have a fundamental disagreement here. I think once you decide to be part of the slayer world, you have a responsibility to it. I don't believe it is something that should be picked up or dropped on a whim. I can't help but feel that if you have the the strength and the skill to fight, to help, but decide not to because you are essentially butthurt, then that doesn't reflect well on you.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I never really thought about how Satsu reacted to Buffy sleeping with Angel, but you have a point, it was really childish for her to storm out of the Apocalypse like that.

Well, from her perspective it was a) Buffy choosing to have sex with the man who had been directing the mass-murder of Slayers for the past several months, in preference to her, and b) Buffy proactively opening the door to an Apocalypse instead of trying to close it. (Even though Buffy didn't yet realize the consequences of what they were doing.)

I can understand why she would be hurt and frustrated by that, and she didn't really leave... she was back on the job by the beginning of the "Last Gleaming" arc. (There wasn't much she could have done anyway while the Space-Frak was underway. Dawn could do just as good a job of staring helplessly at an iPad screen as she could.)

I wish we could find out what Satsu is doing now, during season 9, and what her current feelings are regarding Buffy.

 

[white avenger]

Yes, and they chose to fight. We have a fundamental disagreement here. I think once you decide to be part of the slayer world, you have a responsibility to it. I don't believe it is something that should be picked up or dropped on a whim. I can't help but feel that if you have the the strength and the skill to fight, to help, but decide not to because you are essentially butthurt, then that doesn't reflect well on you.

Accepting the fact that the Slayers were an army, in a condition of war, what Satsu did wasn't just making the decision not to play Slayer anymore. Certainly, under normal, non-Apocolyptic conditions, Slayers do have the choice whether or not to make that commitment, but once that choice is made,walking away in the middle of an Armageddon isn't just resignation or retirement, it's desertion under fire, an action punishable by death for the simple reason that the deserter's absence increases the risk to every other soldier.

Likewise, Buffy's actions with Angel, regardless of their past history and personal feelings for each other is, at the least, fraternization with the enemy, and at the worst, corroboration. We have two wrongs here, not just one. Satsu was definitely in the wrong for walking away from her commitment, but Buffy, with her actions, could definitely be seen as contributing to the situation. That in no way excuses Satsu, but Angel was the enemy, Buffy knew it, and it didn't stop her.

(If proper procedure had been followed, Buffy would have been relieved of command in favor of her second in command, whoever that actually was, Angel would have been taken prisoner. Yes, I know, they were both so powerful at that time that no restraint would have held them if they chose to resist, but a sense of honor should have, just the same as Faith's sense of honor kept her in prison all that time)

Buffy's actions, while they could be seen as contributing to Satsu's desertion, in no way excuse it. But considering all of the people who transgressed one way or another in Season 8 and walked away with nothing more than a guilty conscience, if even that, it becomes a bit more understandable. She was just following the example set by her so called superiors.

 

[Kean]

Well, from her perspective it was a) Buffy choosing to have sex with the man who had been directing the mass-murder of Slayers for the past several months, in preference to her, and b) Buffy proactively opening the door to an Apocalypse instead of trying to close it. (Even though Buffy didn't yet realize the consequences of what they were doing.)

I can understand why she would be hurt and frustrated by that, and she didn't really leave... she was back on the job by the beginning of the "Last Gleaming" arc. (There wasn't much she could have done anyway while the Space-Frak was underway. Dawn could do just as good a job of staring helplessly at an iPad screen as she could.)

I wish we could find out what Satsu is doing now, during season 9, and what her current feelings are regarding Buffy.

I can understand it too, I just feel it was the wrong decision for Satsu to make. I like Satsu, a lot actually, but the more I reread that panel the more I feel it was a childish thing for her do, regardless of Buffy's actions.

I'd like to know what she is doing too, she was too involved a character for us to have heard nothing about her this season.

Accepting the fact that the Slayers were an army, in a condition of war, what Satsu did wasn't just making the decision not to play Slayer anymore. Certainly, under normal, non-Apocolyptic conditions, Slayers do have the choice whether or not to make that commitment, but once that choice is made,walking away in the middle of an Armageddon isn't just resignation or retirement, it's desertion under fire, an action punishable by death for the simple reason that the deserter's absence increases the risk to every other soldier.

Likewise, Buffy's actions with Angel, regardless of their past history and personal feelings for each other is, at the least, fraternization with the enemy, and at the worst, corroboration. We have two wrongs here, not just one. Satsu was definitely in the wrong for walking away from her commitment, but Buffy, with her actions, could definitely be seen as contributing to the situation. That in no way excuses Satsu, but Angel was the enemy, Buffy knew it, and it didn't stop her.

(If proper procedure had been followed, Buffy would have been relieved of command in favor of her second in command, whoever that actually was, Angel would have been taken prisoner. Yes, I know, they were both so powerful at that time that no restraint would have held them if they chose to resist, but a sense of honor should have, just the same as Faith's sense of honor kept her in prison all that time)

Buffy's actions, while they could be seen as contributing to Satsu's desertion, in no way excuse it. But considering all of the people who transgressed one way or another in Season 8 and walked away with nothing more than a guilty conscience, if even that, it becomes a bit more understandable. She was just following the example set by her so called superiors.

You know, I really don't know what to say about Twilight. We still don't know if it was a good or bad thing, we don't know if ultimately Earth is better or worse in the long run. As well as that my affections for Buffy and Angel, both as individuals and as a couple, colour how I see their actions. On one side I feel like they are completely in the wrong and on the other I can understand how they came to make every single decision.

Years later, and that entire arc is still a crap shoot.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]

I think once you decide to be part of the slayer world, you have a responsibility to it. I don't believe it is something that should be picked up or dropped on a whim.

Says who? Seriously, who made those arbitrary rules? Oh, I'll tell you. The shadow men and the watchers did. A bunch of powerful old men. Satsu defies them and walks away, you know why? Because she's actually empowered.

the more I reread that panel the more I feel it was a childish thing for her do

You know, she kinda is a child. In Japan the age of legal adulthood is 20. I don't think Satsu's even 18 in "Twilight" arc.
[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION]

it's desertion under fire, an action punishable by death for the simple reason that the deserter's absence increases the risk to every other soldier.

In a real army, yeah. Buffy's so called army is an illegal, paramilitary, terrorist organization. It is funded with laundered money and employs child soldiers. They're criminals, OK? Army rules don't apply.

Accepting the fact that the Slayers were an army

It's not a fact. You know, calling them an army insults actual armies. Seriously.

 

[Kean]

Says who? Seriously, who made those arbitrary rules? Oh, I'll tell you. The shadow men and the watchers did. A bunch of powerful old men. Satsu defies them and walks away, you know why? Because she's actually empowered.

That is hardly what happened here. She saw the person she loved having sex with someone who not only wasn't her, but was an enemy. This wasn't throwing off shackles of the Council's patriarchy and making a stand. It was storming off because she was personally hurt. I'm not saying she didn't have a right to feel hurt, but I think she handled it poorly as a senior ranking slayer in a crisis situation.

 

[white avenger]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]




In a real army, yeah. Buffy's so called army is an illegal, paramilitary, terrorist organization. It is funded with laundered money and employs child soldiers. They're criminals, OK? Army rules don't apply.



It's not a fact. You know, calling them an army insults actual armies. Seriously.

Call it an army, a terrorist group, vigilantes, freedom fighters, guerrillas, or a ladies' sewing group, whatever you choose. The fact remains that Satsu was a part of an organization dedicated, at that particular moment, to defeating what they considered to be an opposing force whose mission was to bring about the destruction of the wold as they knew it. As a member of that organization, it was her duty to act in a military manner, at least to the extent of taking orders from the recognized commander without letting personal matters such as who was shagging who decide or invalidate her commitment to their cause. Adding to her offense is the fact that she was not mere cannon fodder, but was, in fact, the commander of and responsible for a unit of fighters (the Japanese Slayers) participating in that battle and war. By deserting her post, she left that unit disorganized, if only for the time that it would take to appoint a new team commander. In addition, as far as we saw, she never even informed her team hat she was leaving so that either a second in command could take charge, or a new commander appointed.

Once the crisis was averted, Satsu may have had the option of resigning her position and returning to civilian life, but that is most certainly NOT her option in the middle of a war, and it is NOT her option to do so without giving prior notice of doing so. Her actions could, literally, affect lives, or even cause the Slayers to be defeated by Twilight.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION]

it was her duty

There is no duty. Satsu follows Buffy, like other 2003 slayers, because she wants to. There is no obligation, nobody has any power over her, nobody can order her. It's her choice. She decides she doesn't want to follow Buffy any more, she leaves. There's nothing unfair about it.

As a member of that organization, it was her duty to act in a military manner

Says who? It's obviously not what Satsu believes in.

 

[thetopher]

Yeah, I liked Satsu fine, when I first heard about the whole 'Buffy sleeps with a girl' thing I honestly thought it was pandering and trying to be 'shocking' or something.
But after actually reading the whole of S8 I found that it was just...a different relationship, and actually kind of a mature one.
I was pretty much what Parker described to Willow in S4 when he was bulls**ting her, two people having a beautiful moment (or two...) with each other and then moving on with their own lives.
Satsu loves Buffy, but doesn't hurt her, doesn't intentionally cause her pain, break her heart or cheat on her. And when she realises that Buffy won't love her back she does the healthy thing and moves on with her own life instead of hanging around, unlike some. (*cough* Spike *cough*)

And when Satsu angrily walks off when Buffy and Angel were 'god-fraking' it was understandable. Was it wise? No, it was a stupid, emotional response to something she didn't want to see. But personally I don't like characters who are perfect, if I can understand a response, even if its a flawed one, that's fine if it fits the story. 🙂

Oh, and its entirely possible that the whole Buffy/Satsu thing was a way to placate/please all the Fuffy/Billow shippers, but it didn't really work. Most Fuffy's were just annoyed that it wasn't Faith that Buffy decided to experiment with. 😀

 

[Blaze]

I really like Satsu. She was my favourite new character introduced in the comic, and I wish she would have been made into a more integral part of the story (seemed to be heading that way but then it fell flat later on). It was nice to have another gay character that wasn't Willow's love interest. It was also nice to see Buffy have sex with someone simply because she enjoys it. Sure, casual sex is not for everyone, but usually on shows it's displayed as this awful thing with dire consequences. It was cool to see a different take where things worked out fine.

I get why Satsu stormed off at the end. I wouldn't call it immature, as much as it was irresponsible since she was in the middle of a war. But it's still understandable. Being in love with a straight girl can't really be fun for her. It was nice to see a character not choose the greater good over their personal lives. More importantly, it was a nice contrast to Angel, Riley, and Spike, who most would debate that they would have never abandoned fight.

And I'll have to re-read, because I can't really remember if she knows Angel is the enemy at that point, but if I saw my superior sleeping with the "bad guy", I'd throw in the towel too, go fight my own fights.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------
[MENTION=12614]thetopher[/MENTION] agrees: 100% Agree, apart from the 'Buffy being straight' bit. But that's just me!

I should correct myself, I don't actually think Buffy is straight either. I should have written "girl who doesn't love her back". I don't think Buffy loved Satsu the way Satsu needed/wanted to be loved. That doesn't make Buffy straight either, I agree 🙂

 

[chasesummers]

I never really liked the comics in general, I purchased all season 8 but I sold them afterwards. I prefer ''normal'' books 🙂 therefor I read S8,9 and Angel&Faith on Wikia.

Satsu was okay, but I never really cared about her.

 

[ladydorotea]

I never liked Satsu because she is too one dimensional. For comparison, my favorite new character introduced in the comics who also happens to be gay is Aluwyn. Now, Alu is everything one would want for the verse new villain/love interest/mystery etc etc, while Satsu was just another Kennedy/Riley hybrid in a kimono: hot, sexy and somewhat dull when it comes to talking about anything but her feels for Buffy/Willow, or being slighted by Buffy/Willow, or getting over Buffy/Willow, etc etc. Whedon has a tendency to write this crop of rebound characters that are sweet-and-sour - kind of like a soup - and equally un-filling.

 

[Blaze]

[MENTION=9316]ladydorotea[/MENTION] agrees:

Lols, going by this, Willow ain't gay either, because she slept with a man and enjoyed it. IMHO, in the verse the chanarcter sexuality is what the said character declares it to be, and as such Buffy is as much straight as Willow is gay.

Actually Satsu isn't really the reason that leads me to believe that Buffy is bi-curious. Anyhow, I posted a thread a while ago about the double standard between Willow and Buffy where I explained myself on the topic in great details. Also, Buffy doesn't declare that she is straight, that is a mistake I also made at first.

Also, sleeping with someone and enjoying it has nothing to do with sexuality, and I never stated that the two were related. This is not the reason for me thinking that Buffy is "not straight".