Are movies responsible for our actions?

ok I absolutely have to jump in here.

Watcher: No one is taking issue with any porn that displays rape or child molestation in a positive way. I think we can all agree that that's despicable. And it's true that a lot of people use porn as a normal, healthy aid to their sex life, and that's fine. I think, though that guys, especially younger guys, like 18-20, should be careful about what they take away from a movie like that. I think what Eps and Amber are saying (That I completely 110% agree with,) is that most porn out there (and I've seen a lot of it...shush!) objectifies women in an obvious and offensive way. ESPECIALLY old, 70's porn. (That's kind of a joke, but not really) Anyway, younger guys, or guys without a lot of experience with REAL women should be very careful to understand that those women in these movies are ACTORS and that the things they see in porn (I would be more specific, but hey, family board, right?) might not be appropriate or comfortable for whatever woman they're going to be with. She's probably not going to respond the way the actresses do, and she might not be comfortable doing the things the actresses do. In portraying women as these submissive (yes, even when they're the instigators, in that case, they're still submitting to a male fantasy) super-orgasmic (can I say that?) creatures that will do anything the man wants them to do, the porn industry in general (and yes there are exceptions) contributes to, not only the skewing of male attitudes towards sex, but female attitudes as well. Young, impressionable women (like the girls I went to high school with) see even things like commercials for "Girls Gone Wild" and they think that that's necessary or expected to get the male attention they want. Which is of course, ridiculous, any man worth his salt would like a girl who doesn't flash the camera or..ahem, family board, if she's fun and smart and all those other things that I know men really want. (And before you start telling me that Girls Gone Wild isn't porn, ooooh yes it is. Ever seen the whole videos? I have. Ever seen those creepazoids walking the street in New Orleans? I have. Eugh.) Anywhoo, my biggest issue with porn isn't the nasty, illegal things, I think everone agrees that that's just evil. It's that the way the porn industry portrays women gives young men and women a skewed vision of sex, gender roles and sexuality

All that said, some porn is good! Sorry, sorry, randomness...
 
A
Amber Benson
Thank You! *points to Anchovy* Yea... What she said ;)
Just have to respond to that, because i still absolutely disagree that porn is all about male fantasies. That is so not the case in my experience.

I'm starting to think that all the girls i know are just a hell of a lot more openminded then the rest of the world because quite honestly i've known girls who make porn videos seem tame in comparison to what they enjoy doing in the sack. This is a very difficult subject to discuss in any depth on an all ages board but in truth i have to think that the way you view what you seen in a porn movie is going to be judged on what you prefer in real life.

Now don't misunderstand me here, i do see the point you are trying to get at. There are porn movies out there that feature grown women appearing to be very submissive in nature and others that clearly are made to answer male fantasies to a certain degree. However just because it happens to be a male fantasy doesn't mean that it isn't also a female fantasy at the same time.

Take a threesome for example with two girls and a guy. You might say that this is the ultimate male fantasy and any movie featuring one is made to please the male viewers. The thing is though that there are plenty of girls out there that love that kind of thing too. Not all girls would want to be with another girl and a guy admittedly but the fact that many do means that this is not purely a male fantasy.

In the end i keep coming back to the same thing. It's about the individual. Whilst you might see these movies as being offensive in the way they portray women and that it might give young guys the wrong idea there are other girls in the world who are hoping that guys get exactly that idea because they enjoy a similar kind of sex life.

It's not about male or female, it's about the individual tastes of people, same as everything else. To make out that porn movies are only for guys fantasies and offensive to women is being just as sexist as any of the people making the movies, in my opinion.
 
A
Amber Benson
Openminded? I'm Gay! How much more openminded can I get? :P
E
eponinethen
Yeah I don't wanna get back into this discussion at the moment, but let me just say that if you believe that this has got anything to do with me being not open-minded you have completely misunderstood my point and view on this whole thing...
OK, yes, many women enjoy a lot of the behaviors that are portrayed in porn...I happen to be one of them (something Jim is very thankful for 😉 ) And I didn't say that porn is ALL about male fatasies, because it's just not true. There is porn out there that is geared towards couples, or women, and even porn geared towards men that is very realistic and good.

What I'm saying is that any young man who watches porn and takes away the idea that women should or will react the way a woman in a porn movie does, will be very very disappointed. And so will his partner. A lot of guys I know (and the guys I know are HUGE geeks) watch porn as sort of...a learning experience. They try to "pick up tips". Not only is this stupid, because those women are usually acting, it's the complete wrong tack to take with porn. Porn should be enjoyable and sexy, not a lecture on pleasure. Because that's not what it's designed to do. My best friend Max used to do this, until I sat him down and had a long talk about women. And the best teacher, the best learning experience, the best way to "pick up tips" is to ASK your partner. And that is way more healthy than watching porn for those things.

Another, seperate but related issue is this: Yes, there are certainly women who love porn and love the acts that are usually portrayed in porn(hee hee!)...but there are women who don't, as well. And those women should not be made to feel, by their partner or by society, that they MUST live up to the Jenna Jameson or Jill Kelly image or example if they want to please their partner.

And yes, it is about male and female. Because nearly everything can be seen through those two lenses, especially in the society we live in today. You can have a man and a woman watch the same movie and, maybe they'll both be turned on, but it might be by different things. Or one of them might be disgusted by it! And when you talk about porn as a societal issue, it is definitely valid to talk about the male point of view and the female point of view. Because whether or not individual tastes come into play, there are definite societal roles imposed on people based on their gender, not only in the workplace or the home, but in the bedroom as well. And that is always there as a subtext, even when the actual movie subverts those ideas, they still affect the watcher.

Hee, hee, I used your sn, Watcher! I didn't even realize it, Ha! That makes me laugh.
 
See this is where the argument has become confused. I'm not arguing that male and female perspectives are always going to be the same. Of course everyone has there own opinions on porn, same as everything else. What i'm saying is that those opinions are not defined by the gender of the person.

The arguments put forward to me here have been very much that porn is for the guy and an insult to the woman, a point that i have already said i strongly disagree with, but the larger argument has been to suggest that only guys like porn and only girls don't. What i'm trying to point out is that it is no way as black and white as that.

Sure, in any relationship the guy may love porn and the girl may hate it, as you suggest, but it is just as possible that the girl could be the big porn fan and the guy not like it in the slightest. I'm not saying that guys and girls can't feel differently on the subject, just that your gender does not guarantee what side of the fence you fall on.

One thing we do absolutely agree on is that you can't treat porn as a "How To" guide book when it comes to sex. It can be great for setting the mood for the evening or even giving a couple some ideas for the night ahead but you still need a good idea about the basics of what each other likes before you move on to anything new.

On the other hand, the "new" can be a hell of a lot of fun when you get around to it! 😀
 
Wow, Watcher, I agree with absolutely everything you just said! If we're talking about porn on an individual basis, I absolutely agree with you. Maybe I should clarify what I'm trying to say.

I'm saying that when we talk about porn as an industry and a societal issue, rather than simply something that individuals enjoy together or alone, it becomes necessary to talk about the gender roles and the subtext that is present in MOST porn that's out there. For a long time, at least in America, it was considered unacceptable for women to get any pleasure out of sex (lie back and think of your country, or whatever), and a lot of that attitude is still present...not in porn, though. Nope, in porn, that attitude is translated into the portaryal of women as a sexual object, as someone who is there to please her partner, not take pleasure for herself. And even in the movies that subvert that idea that idea is still present, in the viewer's mind as a contrast to what's happening on sreen. Now I'm not sure if that's good or bad for society and a woman's role in society (although I have my opinions) but it is true, and it needs to be acknowledged when we talk about porn as an issue, rather than as a personal preference.

I'm NOT saying that men enjoy porn and women don't. I like porn a lot, to tell you the truth, which is one of the reasons I'm so concerned about the industry and what society and men think of it. If you're over 18, google Annie Sprinkle. She is the absolute coolest, and she came to my school to talk about exactly the things we're debating right now.

(Yeah, this is fun!!! I won't take a Women's Studies class, but I'll talk about gender roles in porn all day long! Ha! I love me...)
 
Hehe, Annie Sprinkle, huh? I'll have to remember that name! 😀

Yeah, i agree with pretty much everything you said there as well. I would never condone porn if i truly believed that it was influencing what happened in reality or that is was a part of making women feel inferior in any part of life, be it in the bedroom or wherever. To me, if your partner isn't getting at least as much pleasure at of the act as you are then you ain't working hard enough, y'know! 😉

I really don't think that to be true anymore though. I think women are strong enough in life to know what they want and how to get it and they certainly aren't going to let what they see in a porn movie keep them down. Any guy that looks at a porn movie and really thinks girls are like the characters they see onscreen are probably too dumb to actually get a real girl anyway. All porn movies are is a bit of fun and the majority of the girls i know see them that way, the same as you do yourself.

Now excuse me whilst i Google ... 😀
 
A
Anchovy
Thin you might be right about dumb guys...and yes, go google Annie! Go now!!
this subject always makes me angry. much the same as do music or video games make people killers.
I absolutely think not! people blame these things because they have nothing else to blame. try blaming the killers. if a movie inspires these people to do these things, then theres something wrong with the person. inability to separate fiction from reality. in that case they need help.
books have been written scarier and more violent than movies for a lot longer but noones is condemming(sp?) them.
if movies make people do things, then its the persons fault, not the movie.
i watch these movies, play the video games and listen to the music but none of them have had that effect on me or anyone i know so how can they be responsible?

sorry that its not the best way i could have written this rant, but the subject upsets me so i tend not to be too clear.
 
Amber Benson said:
Openminded? I'm Gay! How much more openminded can I get? 😛
Click to expand...

LOL! Fair enough! Mind you i could argue that being gay doesn't neccessarily make you openminded anymore than being black doesn't neccessarily mean you can't be racist, but i won't! 😉

Just as a point of interest, i switched the telly on this morning to check on the news on Sky Sports and the channel that happened to be on was Five, showing the Trisha Goddard chat show, not a programme i would normally watch because i cannot stand the woman but the topic that was coming on made me stop to listen.

Believe it or not they had a married couple on who were both in the porn industry. Now Trisha has a habit of looking disgusted at anything that she doesn't 100% agree with and so when they came on she clearly looked down on what they did as a profession. What made me smile was that a woman (yep, a woman) stood up in the audience defending them and saying that it was no big deal, making the almost exact same arguments that i made just last night on here. This woman then turned around and asked for anyone in the audience who had never watched porn to put their hands up. Only two people could be seen, one male, one female. Everyone else was laughing and joking, some even cheering, in defense of the couple and what they did. I didn't have time to watch it right to the end but what i saw did justify a lot of what i was trying to put across last night, that there is no real gender issue in the UK when it comes to who is more offended by porn movies. It does seem like it is only the minority of the younger age groups of the nation that have any problem with it at all and those that do are both male and female. Whether you see this as a good thing or a bad thing is your own choice i guess but the times really are changing and attitudes along with them.

I know this must sound very convenient that this exact subject was being discussed on television this very morning and so i'm hoping that somebody else will have seen it so that they can back me up that i'm not just making this up. It really was on, honest! 😀
 
i have to agree with mr. the watcher.

you'd have to be stupid to assume women were mindless sex pets from watching porn. even if you didnt have many girl type friends you wouldnt assume that from one media out let thats how they work.

if ALL medias represented women in this way and you didnt have a mother or a sister or anything you might have a case but no.

people control the media, the media does not control people. its an old argument which relies solie on a complete absense of common sense.
 
I'd just like to point out that this is a 'family friendly board', please keep that in mind when posting or the thread will be closed.
 
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