Are Vampires Patriarchal?

[DeadlyDuo]

But Drusilla does not view herself as a whore, nor do Angel treat her like one.

Angelus kind of does in my opinion. He uses her for sex when it suits him and ignores her when it doesn't such as when Darla is around. She's his current "masterpiece" but if he'd managed to break Buffy, thus making her his new "masterpiece", I could see him ditching Dru then her wondering what she'd done wrong. Angelus has no real affection for Dru.

The power relation is too much in Drusilla's favour. She can pick and choose between her two men and play them against each other.

I don't think Dru actually thinks that way. She's not as manipulative as Darla is. In Season 2, it's always Angelus coming onto her and she just responds to it rather than her going out of her way to flirt with Angelus. With Spike, she's much more proactive in showing her affection for him.

For me, Drusilla is much more interesting if you assume she does everything she does because she really wants to.

That essentially turns Drusilla into "a big ho" though. She is definitely more switched on than she lets on but at the end of the day she is, and always will be, Angelus' victim.

Unlike other vampires (Angel and Penn), Drusilla loses her family while she is still human and capable of feeling the full pain of their loss, which is why the Whirlwind matters to her, because it is the closest equivalent to a human family she can have as a vampire. Spike wants to be alone with Drusilla, because he died while hurting because his crush didn't love him back.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Angelus kind of does in my opinion. He uses her for sex when it suits him and ignores her when it doesn't such as when Darla is around.

I agree that he did when the full Whirlwind were together. But he can't do that on BtVS, because Darla is gone. That shifts the power over to Drusilla.

And even back in the day, Angelus would go out of his way to please Dru sexually. You don't give foreplay to a whore.

That essentially turns Drusilla into "a big ho" though.

I don't think so. A whore does what she does, because she must. That is not how I see Drusilla.

If you don't like the idea of Drusilla being promiscuous, then how do you explain the chaos demon? When they go to Brazil, she flirts and fools around to punish Spike.

But really, I don't think Drusilla is even all that promiscuous. I think she kept it in the family, back in the day. The chaos and fungus demons are just punishments for Spike, after he breaks up the Whirlwind. Drusilla never promises Spiek absolute exclusivity. He learns in "Destiny" that she sleeps with Angelus, so he can't really accuse her of being unfaithful for continuing to openly sleep with him.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I agree that he did when the full Whirlwind were together. But he can't do that on BtVS, because Darla is gone. That shifts the power over to Drusilla.

And even back in the day, Angelus would go out of his way to please Dru sexually. You don't give foreplay to a whore.

Angelus still uses Dru on Buffy just to wind up Spike. So long as Spike is still around, Dru has her uses.

I don't think so. A whore does what she does, because she must. That is not how I see Drusilla.

If you don't like the idea of Drusilla being promiscuous, then how do you explain the chaos demon? When they go to Brazil, she flirts and fools around to punish Spike.

The Chaos Demon is a different situation because she specifically does it to punish Spike. Angelus is not the same situation. Also would Angelus really take no for an answer?

But really, I don't think Drusilla is even all that promiscuous. I think she kept it in the family, back in the day. The chaos and fungus demons are just punishments for Spike, after he breaks up the Whirlwind. Drusilla never promises Spiek absolute exclusivity.

I agree that Dru has only ever slept with 3 men: Spike, Angelus, and the Immortal (though there is reason to suspect that the Immortal has some magic mojo going on that makes him irresistible to women). The chaos and fungus demon is her deliberately punishing Spike.

However, once Angelus left the group, it seems like Drusilla was exclusive with Spike pre-Sunnydale. It's why her fooling around with the chaos demon was so hurtful to him.

He learns in "Destiny" that she sleeps with Angelus, so he can't really accuse her of being unfaithful for continuing to openly sleep with him.

Angelus deliberately sleeps with Drusilla out of spite as Spike referred to her as his "destiny". He tells Spike that if he wants something, he should take it. Angelus takes Drusilla when it suits him and she obeys because what other choice does she have.

The Angelus/Dru relationship is complicated. The damage has already been done to the extent that Angelus doesn't have to force himself on Dru or pin her down because he's already broken her that much that she just does everything he says and accepts what he does to her. He's like a kid who wants a toy just because someone else wants it. If Spike wasn't around, I doubt Angelus would give her the time of day. He might continue to just use her for sex, but he doesn't care for her. Spike does care for Dru and that's what Angelus is getting his fun from.

 

[Bluebird]

I always viewed the fanged four as distinctly matriarchial, especially with the mother and son vibes they give out. I really don't associate vampires with animals at all, other than the sound effects used and the fact that they are animalistic in nature. Humans are animalistic in nature if stripped of all society's norms. That's the representation I took, not that they were big dogs or cats. I mean, what's interesting about supernatural animals? I find more interest in the corruption of human ideals and norms that vampires represent for me.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I always viewed the fanged four as distinctly matriarchial, especially with the mother and son vibes they give out.

I agree, but I find it interesting how both Darla and Dru seem to shun the spotlight and prefer to let their men take charge. They may have the real power, but they mostly control their men with a soft hand. It is Angelus that is famous and it is Spike that is the slayer-killer.

When Darla and Drusilla team up, they do well at first, but they quickly become a bit lost. They would have prefered to have Angel and Spike there to do the work for them.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The vampires appear to become a caricature of what they were before they were sired. If they had believed in patriarchy before, they remained that way. If they believed in matriarchy before, they remained that way. Most societies are more matriarchal than they want to admit, with the mother being the centre of the family and being the one to use punishment and reward most often to keep the rest of the family in line. Even if they theoretically have less power than men, they use their attractiveness or withholding of sex to get what they want from their spouse and rule the children with an iron hand. Modern permissive society is a recent development that does not represent the norm.

Some matriarchal societies go to the extreme of polyandry and Drusilla is definitely a candidate for this. She will have sex with Spike or Angelus as she wishes and this is the power she uses. It is the opposite of a patriarchal system where this would be strictly forbidden. She calls the shots about who she has sex with and can have several partners at a time. When she punishes Spike with unfaithfulness, she is exercising her right to do whatever she wants. A patriarchy would have been more like Tara's family with the women held in check by threats of violence.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I really don't associate vampires with animals at all, other than the sound effects used and the fact that they are animalistic in nature. Humans are animalistic in nature if stripped of all society's norms. That's the representation I took, not that they were big dogs or cats. I mean, what's interesting about supernatural animals? I find more interest in the corruption of human ideals and norms that vampires represent for me.

Perhaps the vampires are a metaphor for "cats are evil. They hide behind the fur and pretend to be cute but this is what they would be like if they were human." 😛

The vampires on Buffy are very felinesque though in their behaviour, enough so to suggest that they could be giant cats with human intelligence.

I agree, but I find it interesting how both Darla and Dru seem to shun the spotlight and prefer to let their men take charge. They may have the real power, but they mostly control their men with a soft hand. It is Angelus that is famous and it is Spike that is the slayer-killer.

When Darla and Drusilla team up, they do well at first, but they quickly become a bit lost. They would have prefered to have Angel and Spike there to do the work for them.

This is kind of what I mean by "patriarchal". Female vampires aren't powerless, they know how to manipulate their male counterparts, but the males have to be seen as the leaders. Darla could easily lead The Whirlwind, yet Angelus is the one considered the leader. This could just be a clever ploy on Darla's part, let Angelus suffer the pitfalls of leadership whilst she gets the benefits of pulling his strings, or it could just be the male leaders are more respected by others outside of the group rather than female leaders.

That doesn't necessarily reflect the views of those inside a group who would follow a leader regardless of whether they be male or female, but from the perspective of rival groups, a male leader is more likely to see off a territorial challenge than a female one.

Sunday is the outright leader of her group, yet if someone like Mort (the big one from Harmony's group) were to challenge her for control of the group one on one, would Sunday be able to defend her position? Mort is bigger, stronger, though possibly not as quick, but he would have the size and strength advantage over Sunday. If Mort challenged uninjured Season 2 Spike, there's a good chance he'd be able to defend his position or at least put up a good fight because he and Mort are more evenly matched on the strength side. Mort's actor is 6'4", JM is 5'9" whilst Sunday's actress is 5'7".

She calls the shots about who she has sex with and can have several partners at a time. When she punishes Spike with unfaithfulness, she is exercising her right to do whatever she wants.

Drusilla actually doesn't sleep with that many people. As far as we know, she's only slept with 3 (maybe 4) people: Spike, Angelus and a threesome with Darla and the Immortal.

The reason why her unfaithfulness (post-Sunnydale) is so hurtful to Spike is because it isn't the norm. If Dru was sleeping around left, right and centre and constantly having "several partners at a time", then why would Spike be bothered that she was just carrying that on? The only way it would hurt him is if she was deliberately going out of her way to flirt with others when she hasn't done so before.

The Angelus situation is complicated for various reasons, but I don't think it's just a simple case of Dru being "a big ho".

A patriarchy would have been more like Tara's family with the women held in check by threats of violence.

That's a misogynistic patriarchy rather than a normal one. Tara's family were abusive and wanted her "in her place", male vampires are just publicly in charge over the females (though the females may be in charge behind the scenes).