As a Bangel Shipper which of these "other" ships bothered you the most?

[FaithLehane16]

Continue on....

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Buffy wouldn't be suicidal over Cangel. She'd be upset and disappointed (though try to put on a brave face), but at worst it would send her running back to Spike just so she can distract herself. However, the fact that Cordelia doesn't bring Angelus forth might give Buffy a small glimmer of satisfaction as it means that Cordy doesn't make Angel happy the way Buffy did.

If anything, I think Buffy would be more upset that Angel had a child with Darla, she still wouldn't kill herself over it though.

 

[Ceadsearc03]

Buffy wouldn't be suicidal over Cangel. She'd be upset and disappointed (though try to put on a brave face), but at worst it would send her running back to Spike just so she can distract herself. However, the fact that Cordelia doesn't bring Angelus forth might give Buffy a small glimmer of satisfaction as it means that Cordy doesn't make Angel happy the way Buffy did.

If anything, I think Buffy would be more upset that Angel had a child with Darla, she still wouldn't kill herself over it though.

Agree with all of this. If Buffy WAS going to be suicidal I think that would have been evident when she first came back and was at her most miserable. Or, alternately, in S2 when she was tortured for months by her first love and then had to kill him. But I don’t think she ever was.

Crushed? Maybe. Worse than that? No. I also agree Darla would have hurt her more though honestly, I don’t feel either Cordelia or Darla (or Spike, for that matter) were a true threat to their love for each other. Nor do I think any of those situations were something the other wouldn’t forgive.

 

[FaithLehane16]

Buffy wouldn't be suicidal over Cangel. She'd be upset and disappointed (though try to put on a brave face), but at worst it would send her running back to Spike just so she can distract herself. However, the fact that Cordelia doesn't bring Angelus forth might give Buffy a small glimmer of satisfaction as it means that Cordy doesn't make Angel happy the way Buffy did.

If anything, I think Buffy would be more upset that Angel had a child with Darla, she still wouldn't kill herself over it though.

In Season 6 she would.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

In Season 6 she would.

No she wouldn't. She was using Spike as a drug to numb her pain, we'd just get the "tell me you want me" spiel when she goes to him yet again to numb her pain, this time over Angel.

Buffy wouldn't kill herself no matter how much she was hurting because she wouldn't want to put Dawn through the pain of losing her again. Buffy cares about others before herself. She wouldn't want any of the scoobies finding her lifeless body.

 

[FaithLehane16]

No she wouldn't. She was using Spike as a drug to numb her pain, we'd just get the "tell me you want me" spiel when she goes to him yet again to numb her pain, this time over Angel.

Buffy wouldn't kill herself no matter how much she was hurting because she wouldn't want to put Dawn through the pain of losing her again. Buffy cares about others before herself. She wouldn't want any of the scoobies finding her lifeless body.

Yeah she would.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Yeah she would.

Oh no she wouldn't!

Let's go a little less pantomime and actually give a response with reasoned arguments, shall we?

 

[FaithLehane16]

Oh no she wouldn't!

Let's go a little less pantomime and actually give a response with reasoned arguments, shall we?

Why should I? I've already explained myself time and time again. People who feel extremely depressed are capable of committing suicide. That is a fact. The way Buffy was in Season 6 proves that she is capable of committing suicide considering everything wrong is going on. Learning that the love of her life developing feelings for someone who was ungrateful to and made complaints about her in the past, would be enough to push her over the edge.

 

[Ceadsearc03]

I think this is going to be one of those things that two sides aren’t going to end up agreeing on. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honestly though not every super depressed person is suicidal. Other people handle it differently, which I think we saw with Buffy (and her whole thing with Spike.)

I think Buffy would be more likely to go to LA and beat up on Angel before she would kill herself. (But I don’t even think she would do that in S6. She would probably just close off from everyone more and spend even more time with Spike.)

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Why should I?

Because this is a discussion board? Where things can be discussed and debated?

I've already explained myself time and time again. People who feel extremely depressed are capable of committing suicide. That is a fact.

Anybody is capable of committing suicide, it's not exclusive to the depressed.

The way Buffy was in Season 6 proves that she is capable of committing suicide considering everything wrong is going on. Learning that the love of her life developing feelings for someone who was ungrateful to and made complaints about her in the past, would be enough to push her over the edge.

Dawn tried committing suicide in Season 7, she wasn't depressed, she just felt she needed a big gesture to compete against the rest of the female scoobies for RJ's attention. Chloe committed suicide in Season 7, she wasn't depressed, she was scared and desperate not to die gruesomely at the hands of the First. Spike technically committed suicide when he got a soul (depending on whether or not you view souled Spike as a completely different person to unsouled Spike), he got the soul as a grand gesture for Buffy (it's problematic but there you go), he wasn't depressed.

Just because you're depressed doesn't automatically mean you're going to commit suicide because an ex hooks up with someone else.

Buffy's problem in Season 6 was that she was feeling emotionally numb, she wanted "the fire back" hence why she hooked up with Spike repeatedly because when she was with him she felt something rather than just feeling the numbness she felt around the scoobies. She'd feel something over Cangel but it wouldn't push her to suicide.

 

[Name the Stars]

Because this is a discussion board? Where things can be discussed and debated?



Anybody is capable of committing suicide, it's not exclusive to the depressed.



Dawn tried committing suicide in Season 7, she wasn't depressed, she just felt she needed a big gesture to compete against the rest of the female scoobies for RJ's attention. Chloe committed suicide in Season 7, she wasn't depressed, she was scared and desperate not to die gruesomely at the hands of the First. Spike technically committed suicide when he got a soul (depending on whether or not you view souled Spike as a completely different person to unsouled Spike), he got the soul as a grand gesture for Buffy (it's problematic but there you go), he wasn't depressed.

Just because you're depressed doesn't automatically mean you're going to commit suicide because an ex hooks up with someone else.

Buffy's problem in Season 6 was that she was feeling emotionally numb, she wanted "the fire back" hence why she hooked up with Spike repeatedly because when she was with him she felt something rather than just feeling the numbness she felt around the scoobies. She'd feel something over Cangel but it wouldn't push her to suicide.

I agree. Many people, including heavily depressed people, choose not to commit suicide every day. I don't think Cangel would be something that would "break" Buffy. Buffy may have felt very depressed, but she Cangel wasn't really the worst thing that could or has happened to her.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Going back to the question from the OP (from the other thread), I think Spuffy bothers me the most.

I haven't seen S7 in a while, so I can't really say much about it, but from what I do remember it never seemed to stand up to Bangel. Spike is in love with Buffy, and while Buffy definitely cares about Spike by the end, maybe even loves him, but I never felt she was in love with him. (Spike even admits she doesn't love him in 'Chosen'.)

Cangel just felt forced and silly, so I can just roll my eyes and deal with it. What annoys me the most, however, is that it can ruin their friendship for me.

As for S6 Spuffy, I absolutely HATE it. It's abusive, and an awful relationship. The fact that people can seriously think it's a good relationship honestly scares me.
I'm in the middle of a S6 re-watch (I just finished 'Doublemeat Palace'), and Spuffy is so much worse than I remembered. I literally started hating Spike in 'Smashed' when he hit Buffy, and he was so disrespectful to her the next morning in 'Wrecked'. (Another thing I noticed is that at the end of the episode, Buffy's room is set up like it was in 'Passion' when she was dealing with Angelus: garlic by the windows and a stake in her hand.)

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I literally started hating Spike in 'Smashed' when he hit Buffy,

Why? She hits him often enough, sometimes just because she feels like it, why shouldn't he hit her back?

 

[Miss Muffet]

Why? She hits him often enough, sometimes just because she feels like it, why shouldn't he hit her back?

I know, (and honestly, it would be WAY better if neither of them hit each other) but I have zero empathy for any soulless being (and this is just a natural reaction I have: if they don't have a soul, I don't care what happens to them as long as it's not super gross or disturbing). That was just the immediate feeling I had when I watched the episode.

 

[Faded90]

Honestly I think Cangel ‘bothers’ me the most. Mostly because it just doesn’t seem to stand on its own two feet. As much as I dislike most of Spuffy that ship at least is about Spuffy and people have their reasons for shipping it that are about Spuffy

Cangel bothers me in that whenever I read about it there often seems to be a underlying reasoning of ‘it’s not Bangel’ of why they support it. We see it all the time ‘she makes him smile more than Buffy’ ‘more grown up than Bangel’. Even production were ‘bigging it up’ by comparing it to Bangel. There’s just a smug undertone to the pairing both onscreen and within parts of the fandom that I find nauseating. Out of curiosity I read a couple of Cangel fanfics and honestly the main theme seemed to be about how much better than Buffy and Bangel they were. It was all about pointing out how much more grown up and ‘mature’ (fun game - anytime Cangel is mentioned count how many times this word gets used) it is. It has to diminish Buffy as a character - she of course has to be the crazy bitter ex who Cordy is so much more mature than. Angel is usually reduced to being a complete wet noodle who slobbers all over Cordy and finds Buffy so incredibly immature - I don’t know if fans have realised this Makes Angel look really bad as it just encourages the ‘Angel’s a pedo’ comments. That’s what Cangel revolves around - it not being Bangel which is hilarious when it actually just copies Bangel scenes and storylines throughout the whole ghastly storyline.

We see this sometimes in posts saying ‘imagine Buffy’s face if she knew about Cangel hahaha!’ but why? Why is Buffy seemingly the bad guy of the ship. Buffy post Sanctuary never once interferes in Angel’s life. In fact she shows no interest whatsoever in what he’s doing or even trying to sneakily pry into his life. She does not a single thing to stop this ship happening - heck she doesn’t even know it exists! She’s long moved on (while it’s still clear she still loves him) and is just letting him get on with doing his thing. So why the need to diminish her character to prop Cangel up? That combined with the smug ‘there’s no one like us’ feel of the ship I find it all so incredibly nauseating. If you have to make the ex the bad guy to make the current squeeze look better then the ship as it’s own thing has fallen flat on its face

 

[DeadlyDuo]

So why the need to diminish her character to prop Cangel up?

Because Cangel fans see Buffy's very existence as a threat to their ship. It's basically ship war territory. Cangel fans will absolutely trash the Bangel ship and present Buffy as the worst possible version of herself, all to "big up" their ship and pretend it's "better".

 

[BibliophileAnn]

Honestly I think Cangel ‘bothers’ me the most. Mostly because it just doesn’t seem to stand on its own two feet. As much as I dislike most of Spuffy that ship at least is about Spuffy and people have their reasons for shipping it that are about Spuffy

Cangel bothers me in that whenever I read about it there often seems to be a underlying reasoning of ‘it’s not Bangel’ of why they support it. We see it all the time ‘she makes him smile more than Buffy’ ‘more grown up than Bangel’. Even production were ‘bigging it up’ by comparing it to Bangel. There’s just a smug undertone to the pairing both onscreen and within parts of the fandom that I find nauseating. Out of curiosity I read a couple of Cangel fanfics and honestly the main theme seemed to be about how much better than Buffy and Bangel they were. It was all about pointing out how much more grown up and ‘mature’ (fun game - anytime Cangel is mentioned count how many times this word gets used) it is. It has to diminish Buffy as a character - she of course has to be the crazy bitter ex who Cordy is so much more mature than. Angel is usually reduced to being a complete wet noodle who slobbers all over Cordy and finds Buffy so incredibly immature - I don’t know if fans have realised this Makes Angel look really bad as it just encourages the ‘Angel’s a pedo’ comments. That’s what Cangel revolves around - it not being Bangel which is hilarious when it actually just copies Bangel scenes and storylines throughout the whole ghastly storyline.

We see this sometimes in posts saying ‘imagine Buffy’s face if she knew about Cangel hahaha!’ but why? Why is Buffy seemingly the bad guy of the ship. Buffy post Sanctuary never once interferes in Angel’s life. In fact she shows no interest whatsoever in what he’s doing or even trying to sneakily pry into his life. She does not a single thing to stop this ship happening - heck she doesn’t even know it exists! She’s long moved on (while it’s still clear she still loves him) and is just letting him get on with doing his thing. So why the need to diminish her character to prop Cangel up? That combined with the smug ‘there’s no one like us’ feel of the ship I find it all so incredibly nauseating. If you have to make the ex the bad guy to make the current squeeze look better then the ship as it’s own thing has fallen flat on its face

I too have a problem with Cangel. I find it hard to believe that Angel had any feelings other than that of a friend for Cordelia. I Love You’s were never exchanged between them.
I read a comment the other day when I was watching Bangel videos that Cangel was a slow burn. This poster also said Cangel really started in S2 of Buffy. Angel saves Cordelia in Some Assembly Required and saves her from the hand in the Dumpster. Also Angel rides in the car home with her afterward. Also in Halloween while waiting for Buffy Angel is smiling and laughs at her jokes. In When She Was Bad dances with Angel and in S1 sees him and calls him Salty Goodness. It boggles my mind that someone who likes Cangel would be watching a Bangel video. Not very good examples in my opinion as to how great Cangel is.Besides Angel was with Buffy then and I doubt was even looking at Cordelia that way.

 

[Miss Muffet]

and saves her from the hand in the Dumpster.

I would just like to take a moment to appropriate how hilarious this sounds when you know the hand's not alive or anything 😛

 

[BuffyNvrForgets]

Going back to the question from the OP (from the other thread), I think Spuffy bothers me the most.

I haven't seen S7 in a while, so I can't really say much about it, but from what I do remember it never seemed to stand up to Bangel. Spike is in love with Buffy, and while Buffy definitely cares about Spike by the end, maybe even loves him, but I never felt she was in love with him. (Spike even admits she doesn't love him in 'Chosen'.)

Cangel just felt forced and silly, so I can just roll my eyes and deal with it. What annoys me the most, however, is that it can ruin their friendship for me.

As for S6 Spuffy, I absolutely HATE it. It's abusive, and an awful relationship. The fact that people can seriously think it's a good relationship honestly scares me.
I'm in the middle of a S6 re-watch (I just finished 'Doublemeat Palace'), and Spuffy is so much worse than I remembered. I literally started hating Spike in 'Smashed' when he hit Buffy, and he was so disrespectful to her the next morning in 'Wrecked'. (Another thing I noticed is that at the end of the episode, Buffy's room is set up like it was in 'Passion' when she was dealing with Angelus: garlic by the windows and a stake in her hand.)

I absolutely, 100% agree with this.
Cangel they were never super serious about, but Spuffy? It was a nightmare.
And though I do ship Bangel (I’m also kinda team Cookie Dough),
I didn’t hate it because it was an opposing Buffy ship.
I thought it was a little funny when Spike first got obsessed with Buffy. But my amusement quickly turned to disgust! I’m also in the middle of a rewatch, but I’m only to season 4, so I’m unclear of the timeline, but Spike’s crush turns to obsession fast, and soon he’s stealing pictures of her from her house or (one of the most disturbing for me) kidnapping her and trying to force her to admit her love for him! Who thought that was cute?

I truly believe that Spuffy in season 6 was meant to teach a lesson. A lesson I didn’t need to learn, but a lesson none the less. The creator say as much.
It was never supposed to be good. It was supposed to be terrible, and sickening, and cruel. It was meant to show just how much Buffy was hurting.

Even if it was for a reason, it still bothers me. “Bothers” is actually kind of an understatement.

As Miss Muffet was saying, they were horrible.
Something she mentioned in her post was the scene where Buffy is curled up on her bed all night, holding her knees, eyes wide with anxiety, garlic strung across her windows and bed, stake in hand. She’s terrified. She’s waiting for Spike to come and attack her.
The image makes my heart ache.
The worst part about it, is she isn’t wrong. She said yes to him once, and apparently every “no” after that meant nothing.
And then there is “Seeing Red”.

They tried to fix it in season 7, and they did okay, but I didn’t like that they basically just try and ignore everything that happened. “Oh well, he went off and got a soul, so he can’t be held responsible”.
That doesn’t mean Buffy doesn’t remember what happened every time she sees him. Memories don’t just go away. They only deal with that once, and then never again. If this show was real, I don’t think she’d be able to forget everything so easily. Even if she isn’t angry, there is a reason that type of thing is considered traumatic.

I do appreciate that Spike had any sort of redemption, and I like that Buffy ultimately forgave him and sought to help him have a chance, but I wish they hadn’t tried to pretend it hadn’t happened. Deal with your mistakes. Don’t forget them.

Anyways, that was a long, and possibly confusing way of saying
Well said @Miss Muffet , I think you are absolutely right.