Spoiler! Bangel in Season 8 *Spoilers in this thread*

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I invite all 'shippers and fans alike in a discussion of Bangel in Season 8.








I warned you! Spoilers for Season 8 and Twilight's identity!








Step 1.) Please read the most recent issue with a Bangel-lens.

Step 2.) Tell me how you feel about the status of Bangel at this point. Are you happy? Sad? Angry? Please explain. Do you think this is a beginning of a future for them, or a huge mistake?

 

[white avenger]

Well, up to Issue 33, other than a few fantasies, there hasn't been any. I do recall, from Issue 1, Buffy saying that she "missed the sex," but I don't think that she ever specified exactly who she missed it with.

 

[Adam]

Damn! I NEED a comic store around here...my issue 33 has not been delivered yet.
I am tempted to try and download it or view it online since I still have paid for the issue...
Maybe I should try to find the closest comic store for the next issues...(however it will be far away)...

Does anybody know where I could download/view it online? Also don't troll me saying that its illegal because I know...however I have rightfully payed for my issue and therefore should be able to read it! I will only do this if it has not come by tomorrow...

 

[Kean]

I have only been able to read a few transcripts that have been post on the net so until I read the real thing I will withold my opinion on the latest issue and specifically how it affects Bangel.


What I will say is that there are several things that I feel is a poor representation of both the characters and their relationship. What they presented in the final few pages is NOT what I have been shipping and vouching for all these years.

 

[Tranquillity]

Looking about on some other discussion boards I've only seen two "woot woot - this is so romantic" type reactions -everyone else seems pretty shocked/disappointed/angry/confused about the events on the last few pages of the comic - including well known Bangel supporters. My fear is not so much for the ship but I am in fear for Angel himself - how does he get out of this, will his full explanation (apparently coming over the next couple of issues) be enough to make it all understandable. I don't know if I could accept any explanation where he is in control of his actions, where he conciously became Twilight.

Also, I make no secret of the fact that I quite enjoyed the Twilight books (except for Breaking Dawn) for what they were - simple, rather sill teen romances and I get why meltzer takes a dig at it (rather cleverly) with Buffy saying:

"You listen to me, Twilight... My god, is that really the name you picked? Twilight? Ya know I lived that idea first, right? (and my vampire was so much better.)

But the excellence of this is completely watered down by the Over-the-top actions of the Buffy and Angel - the flying, the floating, the speechifying, the glowing, the kissing. Maybe they are being deliberately subversive? Maybe they're making a deliberate parallel just to show how wrong this is. . .

I'm pinning my hopes on that god awful glow (I mean really, they're having a lend of us right? This Twilight glows instead of sparkles) hopefully its some sort of magic that is making them behave like this.

 

[frankie]

There is so much that needs to be resolved to make this relationship work now. I always expect Buffy and Angel to be together, I don't always want it, but I think it will end that way.
Issue 33 made a mockery of the whole thing. Buffy's hot for the dude who killed a couple of hundred slayers, and beat the crap out of her a few times, but it's cool, because the slayers would have died anyway ... or something. And he glows now, so yeah, that's hot.
I hated seeing Buffy like this, all doe eyed and loved up. When she kissed him, I got really pissed off.
What needs to be done - some explanation of why they're drawn together, why they're acting so out of character, more so Buffy - who as my favorite character, I can honestly say I have never been so disappointed in 🙁 , and hopefully the reveal that this isn't Angel. "Buff", Angel doesn't say Buff.
If things play out with Buffy forgiving Angel for all this, and them being all loved up again, well, I might have to join the Spuffy brigade. 😀

 

[Kean]

There is so much that needs to be resolved to make this relationship work now. I always expect Buffy and Angel to be together, I don't always want it, but I think it will end that way.
Issue 33 made a mockery of the whole thing. Buffy's hot for the dude who killed a couple of hundred slayers, and beat the crap out of her a few times, but it's cool, because the slayers would have died anyway ... or something. And he glows now, so yeah, that's hot.
I hated seeing Buffy like this, all doe eyed and loved up. When she kissed him, I got really pissed off.
What needs to be done - some explanation of why they're drawn together, why they're acting so out of character, more so Buffy - who as my favorite character, I can honestly say I have never been so disappointed in 🙁 , and hopefully the reveal that this isn't Angel. "Buff", Angel doesn't say Buff.
If things play out with Buffy forgiving Angel for all this, and them being all loved up again, well, I might have to join the Spuffy brigade. 😀

I feel like we are going to get some sort of prophecy/destiny explanation for ALL of this, which really leaves me feeling cold. Normally I can handle Angel and Buffy being Destiny's Bitches but I feel like this makes a mockery out of everything that I admired about them as individuals and as a couple.

Issue 34 has a huge responsibility. For alot of people it has the task of redeeming the entire verse.

 

[white avenger]

Okay, I'm as much in the dark as most of the rest of you are here, but something does occur to me here. We've been assuming that Buffy's Final Apocalypse battle is supposed to have her and all of her friends basically accomplishing just what Twilight says he is trying to do at the moment. Destroy all magic and supernatural forces on the planet, at least for a few hundred years. If this is the apocalypse mentioned in the Shanshu Prophecy, it would tie in quite well with what we learned from the Fray series if Angel were leading the opposing army, assisted by Dark Willow, and Buffy and her people actually LOST. In that scenario, Angel becoming mortal would be the only way that he could survive, since he would no longer be a supernatural creature

That might also explain how the vampires/lurks return during Fray's time. Dark Willow manages to escape the destruction of all supernatural forces by projecting herself into the future, something like she did for Buffy. Once there, she could for some reason reopen a portal into the dimension where all of the demons and vampires were sent, allowing a few of them to slip through.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I'm not a Bangel, but I imagine that a Bangel response to this issue would be superficial elation on the first quick read (they kiss! she can't help herself! she loves him!) quickly followed by growing discomfort on a more careful read, as the stuff starts to sink in about how Angel loved her from the moment he first saw her not because it was "true love" or anything, but because they're bonded together through some kind of magically mandated destiny. This magic seems to be what's causing the glow, and what caused Buffy to suddenly abandon her rage and kiss Angel out of nowhere.

But the worst thing is that, even knowing all this, they're apparently about to have sex (the next issue is titled, tastelessly enough, "They F@%#"). If that happens and there's some kind of magical compulsion at work here, then Angel is about to rape Buffy. (Or some external magic power is about to rape them both using each other.)

And, unlike with the TV show, we have to wait a whole month to see what happens. (Scott Allie just commented that the slow monthly schedule is a particular problem with this arc.)

I'm all for Joss's history of pushing the envelope, but this envelope seems to be on the verge of splitting open and spilling anthrax powder into the Buffyverse air ducts.

 

[Kean]

But the worst thing is that, even knowing all this, they're apparently about to have sex (the next issue is titled, tastelessly enough, "They F@%#"). If that happens and there's some kind of magical compulsion at work here, then Angel is about to rape Buffy. (Or some external magic power is about to rape them both using each other.)

If there is some sort of magical influence at work (and I think there is) then they are BOTH pawns to it.

This whole thing stinks of the Jasmine arc.

 

[white avenger]

All of this leads us back to the implications for Angel in his own magazine at IDW. If this isn't some sort of parallel universe/alternate reality or very detailed dream situation, from what I've read here, there's no way that I can imagine this arc not affecting it in a very negative way. I can't believe that Joss would paint himself into a corner like that.

 

[VisionGuy]

This whole thing stinks of the Jasmine arc.

OMG! I WAS JUST THINKING THAT!

I'm fine with Angel ending up with Buffy. I really am. But the fact that they were DESTINED to be together, or drawn to each other cause of this mystical connection makes it seem like everything that happened in their lives over the course of both shows was a complete waste. Not only that, but the writers are pulling off the story in such an unbelievable way. It's upsetting.

Maybe I'll have a different view after I read the comic myself but right now I am not happy.

 

[frankie]

Very good points about the Jasmine arc. My most hated Buffy Verse episode ever is " Inside Out". I think it wrecked Angel the show in a lot of ways and the characters. That everything he was, and those he came in contact with, were all part of some higher scheme. That their strings were being pulled from the start. Utter crap.
If this is where Joss and Co are going with the Buffy/Angel relationship I might have to say goodbye to the Buffy verse.

 

[Kean]

OMG! I WAS JUST THINKING THAT!

I'm fine with Angel ending up with Buffy. I really am. But the fact that they were DESTINED to be together, or drawn to each other cause of this mystical connection makes it seem like everything that happened in their lives over the course of both shows was a complete waste. Not only that, but the writers are pulling off the story in such an unbelievable way. It's upsetting.

Maybe I'll have a different view after I read the comic myself but right now I am not happy.

This is pretty much how I feel too VG. My final judgement will be at the end of the season but right now I feel like they have pissed all over my fandom.

If they make it impossible for me to ship/love Buffy and Angel without being a total hypocrit then I really do not have a reason to be here.

 

[white avenger]

My final judgement will be at the end of the season QUOTE]

...which brings up a question that has probably already been answered other places a dozen times. The latest plan is for Season 8 to end at issue #40, right? Because I know that it's changed several times already, and it would appear that everything is pretty much building up for the big bang conclusion, and allowing 4 issues per "episode," plus a couple of standalones, that's about how it works out.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

The season will be 40 issues... two more by Meltzer, and then Joss writing 36-40. There will be a one-shot in between 35 and 36 which will probably be a "Tales of the Slayers" kind of thing, not part of the main story.

I understand what the Bangels are going through with this... I've finally had to abandon my Buffy/Satsu shipping out of the conviction that Satsu is simply too good for her.

 

[Kelsey]

This is pretty much how I feel too VG. My final judgement will be at the end of the season but right now I feel like they have pissed all over my fandom.

If they make it impossible for me to ship/love Buffy and Angel without being a total hypocrit then I really do not have a reason to be here.

This makes me really sad, actually. I know you're just as passionate about your ship as I am mine, so I really hate to see how much this issue has shaken you up.

I sincerely hope Joss sets Buffy and Angel on the right track. Not necessarily in terms of their relationship--obviously I'd prefer the next few issues didn't prove B and A were meant to be together forever--but in terms of their characters. 'Cause yeah, this is definitely bad not only for their relationship, but for Angel and Buffy separately.

 

[white avenger]

Well, look on the bright side. If this whole thing actually does turn out to be the real deal, and no sort of red herring anywhere, we can all get together and ship Spaith. All but Miss K, that is. She doesn't like Spike with anybody. She'll probably start up a Fander ship, and then we can argue over who FAITH'S real true love is.

 

[Krj2501]

For me(as a Bangel shipper) - When I got to the last page - I did a WTF moment. Then I remember what Spike told them at the end of "Lover Walk". Which basically played out in issue 33.

I agree that the glowy mystical love thing going on between Buffy & Angel is definitely effecting both of them. So if they end having sex(which it looks like they will) then it won't be rape - but because they both deep down want it.

It's also interesting to note that Giles - now believes that this isn't a fight that they can win. But then thru Twilight(Angel's) talk with Giles - we definitely get the feeling that Giles has been keeping a huge secret from Buffy & Faith. One which Angel knows about.

As for what this all means for Buffy & Angel as a couple - it's way too soon to tell. There have been several times in the past - that Joss has given us (Bangel's) reason to hope for a possible future between Buffy & Angel - only to later basically dash those hopes. But one things for certain - there's going to be some pain involved before it's done.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I hated seeing Buffy like this, all doe eyed and loved up. When she kissed him, I got really pissed off.

My sentiments exactly. Although, my reaction to the kiss was a bit more melodramatic - I actually felt physically sick. I hate seeing Buffy like this, too....all twisted all around Angel's little finger.

What needs to be done - some explanation of why they're drawn together, why they're acting so out of character, more so Buffy - who as my favorite character, I can honestly say I have never been so disappointed in 🙁 , and hopefully the reveal that this isn't Angel. "Buff", Angel doesn't say Buff.

Yes, this is my hope, too. They are acting out of character - very much so.

What has happened to our Buffy?

If things play out with Buffy forgiving Angel for all this, and them being all loved up again, well, I might have to join the Spuffy brigade. 😀

*sigh*

Well, I guess beggars can't be choosers. The Spuffies could always use more supporters. This looks like a job for Adopt a Bangel!
*calls white avenger*
Joe! Whisk Frankie away to your thread, this instant! 😉

P.S. Anyway, since you all know I believe Bangel is true love, I can't deny that seeing them kiss was nice...even if it wasn't in the most desirable of contexts.

(27 Days to go...)