Spoiler! Bangel in Season 8 *Spoilers in this thread*

[Wishing Oceans]

Here's my take on it:

It (the Bangel) honestly disgusts me at this point. I REFUSE to "jump up and down" simply because "OMG! Buffy and Angel together!". These are NOT the characters I've grown to love, heck, this isn't even the 'SHIP I've grown to love!

It (Bangel) can have the name, and it can look like Bangel, and it can sound like Bangel, but it's not Bangel. Right now, Bangel is dead, and this imposter, this DEMON has stolen it's body.

Enjoy how I made an analogy between a human becoming a vampire and Bangel turning into this awful S8 mess? 😀

Of course, the plus side is, this fake Bangel can still be redeemed! We can still return the demon's soul. 🙂

Honestly, I'm more pissed off at Buffy then anybody else at this time. Yes, Angel is being a bastard, but at least he's not letting anyone trick him. Angel has the power, and he knows what he's doing. Granted, it's not MY Angel, but...

One out of those two people are weak, and don't have sight of the big picture.

The other knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He may be manipulative, but imo that's better than being the one naive enough to GET manipulated.

So, do I want Spike back? Well, this Bangel/Spuffy thing is the FARTHEST thing from my mind right now. Buffy can end up with Austin Powers for all I care. But I do kinda want him back, because this is how I envision it:

Spike shows up looking for Angel, maybe with Spider or Illyria at his side. Runs into Buffy, and they fight, not recognizing the other. One of them (probably Buffy) is about to kill the other, and then "Buffy?" "Spike?" Reunion, they get to talking. Spike mentions their old relationship and acknowledged how much Buffy had changed since then, just like Cordy did to Angel in You're Welcome. Buffy has an Epiphany like Angel did in "Epiphany", she leaves, determined to get the mission back. Meanwhile, Spike finds Angel, WHIPS him back to his old self, and they leave together, partners again. *Happy Sigh*

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Spike shows up looking for Angel, maybe with Spider or Illyria at his side. Runs into Buffy, and they fight, not recognizing the other. One of them (probably Buffy) is about to kill the other, and then "Buffy?" "Spike?" Reunion, they get to talking. Spike mentions their old relationship and acknowledged how much Buffy had changed since then, just like Cordy did to Angel in You're Welcome. Buffy has an Epiphany like Angel did in "Epiphany", she leaves, determined to get the mission back. Meanwhile, Spike finds Angel, WHIPS him back to his old self, and they leave together, partners again. *Happy Sigh*

As much as I love this idea of Spangel walking off into the sunset together, I doubt that's how it's going to play out. Spike will surely be upset at what Angel has been up too, and I doubt he'll let him off the hook at easily.

I agree, though, if Spike is indeed to make an appearance, that an acknowledgment of Buffy and Spike's old relationship is in order. Joss brought Angel back for fan-service, why not Spike too? I'd love for thee two to talk and I'd love even more to see Spike and Buffy fighting side by side again - even if it's against Angel. It's what they do best, after all. Fight together, that is.

From what Scott Allie said recently, I'm thinking the leaked panel from his desk was a flashback. Spike might not actually show up in the flesh.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

As much as I love this idea of Spangel walking off into the sunset together, I doubt that's how it's going to play out. Spike will surely be upset at what Angel has been up too, and I doubt he'll let him off the hook at easily.

I agree, though, that a acknowledgment of their old relationship is in order if Spike shows up. I'd love for them to talk and I'd love even more to see Spike and Buffy fighting side by side again - even if it's against Angel.

From what Scott Allie said recently, I'm thinking the leaked panel from his desk was a flashback. Spike might not actually show up in the flesh.

True. Or, on the flip side, Angel might convince Spike to join him...

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

True. Or, on the flip side, Angel might convince Spike to join him...

Nah. Spike wouldn't fall for that. He's a good guy now.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Nah. Spike wouldn't fall for that. He's a good guy now.

Well, we thought that Buffy was a good guy, too. And look where that trust got us. 🙁 (But maybe I'm just paranoid 😀 )

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't buy it. There is something much deeper then this cover story. I belive that there is something more. Joss surprised us many times, he's not going to destroy this two great characters that he has been creating for 8 seasons now. He's not going to make out of heroes murderer and a girl who forgives him. We just have to be patient. There is something coming our way.

 

[white avenger]

Bear in mind that we are talking about the Joss Whedon here who brought us the deaths of Joyce, Anya, Cordy, Fred, Wes, and Jenny Calendar, plus having Buffy herself send Angel to hell as well as dying herself. Destroying his main characters has never been something that Joss has shied away from if there is a good story as a result. (Besides, he can always resurrect them in the next season)

The very shock factor alone of having Buffy AND Angel die as the finale of this season, and in addition leaving all of the current Slayers, Faith included, powerless would fill Joss with sheer shivers of delight.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Nah. Spike wouldn't fall for that. He's a good guy now.

Spike's the one that always sees through Buffy & Angel's crap. That was pretty much his entire role in the last season of Buffy & Angel.

That's why I keep saying that it's not going to make sense if Spike isn't doing one of three things right now:

1.) Trying to dust Twilight.

2.) Trying to explain to Buffy how Twilight's actually doing good.

3.) Dying trying.

An army couldn't have stopped Spike when Fred was dying, are we to believe that anything short of a dusting would keep him from the showdown between his oldest friend and greatest love?

On that same note, nothing would keep Cordy away either. Being dead didn't stop her from coming to Angel's side in his times of need. It's unreasonable to think that Angel could begin a worldwide crusade without input from Cordelia.

Not to mention Connor, who was charged with killing Angel(us) by Angel if he endangers innocents...

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Here are three quotes from Scott Allie's latest Q&A that are of interest to this mess:

Buffy's attitude toward him after he reveals himself"”Joss and Brad and I have spent a lot of time talking about this, trying to get this right. We know it's gonna raise questions. I think this arc more than any other would've benefited from being scheduled weekly like a TV show. Sorry, it's a cheap answer, but you gotta wait and see a bit here.

The message Angel's character is supposed to deliver is not signed for yet; it has not been delivered. I swear I'm not saying this just to get you to buy two more comics, but this question isn't even entirely legit until what you've heard what he has to say, and seen what they do next. He will be defined and redefined over and over again, and weakness might be part of it.

Angel is a bit of a moral relativist. He believes in sacrifices for the greater good. But he does believe what he's saying. And he did not kill those 206 Slayers, for example.

(That last statement refers to the fact that Angel didn't personally kill any of those Slayers himself... but he most certainly was in charge of people who killed Slayers, and he did nothing to stop them. In the "Retreat" arc, we saw him with our own eyes, standing there and commanding soldiers to go kill Slayers.)

I don't even want to get into the question of that sniper under Angel's command who shot at Buffy... if Satsu hadn't pushed her out of the way, Buffy would have been killed right then. Would that have fit in with his plans?

 

[Krj2501]

I've been re-reading season 8 - and have come upon some conclusions. Which have helped me to better understand The characters of Buffy and Angel/Twilight.

For Buffy - during the season she has admitted several times to Xander that she feels a lack of connect to world around her. And that she doesn't feel a connect the rest of the Slayers, and wonders if she's really making a difference. It's only after she becomes Super-Powered is able to feel a connection with other slayers. And then she finds out she has a very powerful connection with Angel. Whom by her own admittion is one person she's loved the most in this life. So it's only natural that she wants to act on it.

For Angel as Twilight - Which it's fairly certain that he's not the heroic, brooding vampire champion of the PTB. He still acts like a version of Angel that we've seen many times during the TV series. That is he acts like the very driven, determined, the_ends_will_justify_the_means type of Angel.
Which we've seen different version of in the following sesaons

- Season 2 -while attempting to save Darla, and later when attempting hunt down Darla & Drusilla.

- Season 3 - Wes Kidnaps Connor, and Holtz takes Connor to Quortoth.

- Late Season 5 - Gearing up for the Big show down with the Circle of the Black Thorn and Wolfram & Hart.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Buffy's feeling of disconnection goes all the way back to the beginning of season 6.

My wacky theory, which will probably be wrong:

When Slayers die, their life forces are drawn by the Scythe into an afterlife where their spirits and energies are together in perfect, powerful unity. This is what happened to Buffy after "The Gift," and why afterwards she felt like she'd been pulled out of heaven and felt like she couldn't connect anymore... because she'd had the perfect connection with thousands of others like her, and then lost it.

The Scythe has now become mystically merged with Buffy (we haven't seen it since she dropped it when the goddess picked her up and she got her powers).

All of Buffy's powers are a result of having the Scythe within her and being able to draw on the powers and life forces of all dead Slayers from all time... not just the 206 from her own group.

But that power is now spinning out of control, and will destroy this world unless Buffy moves herself (along with the Slayer power, and possibly all the other Slayers) to some other world that can contain the magic, at least until Buffy can separate herself from it or bring it back under control.

However, that would leave this world defenseless against the demons and vampires... so Buffy will have to find a way to banish them from this world before she leaves.

I don't know how Angel or Twilight (which is more than just an alias of Angel) fit into all of this exactly, but I suspect we'll know by the end of issue #36.

 

[white avenger]

But that power is now spinning out of control, and will destroy this world unless Buffy moves herself (along with the Slayer power, and possibly all the other Slayers) to some other world that can contain the magic, at least until Buffy can separate herself from it or bring it back under control.

However, that would leave this world defenseless against the demons and vampires... so Buffy will have to find a way to banish them from this world before she leaves.

I don't know how Angel or Twilight (which is more than just an alias of Angel) fit into all of this exactly, but I suspect we'll know by the end of issue #36.

Buffy gathering all of her friends together for one last titanic battle against all of the demonic forces is what was, of course, first mentioned in the "Fray" miniseries. As for where Angel/Twilight figures into the matter, remember that the Shanshu Prophecy foretold that Angel would be rewarded with his humanity for leading that same battle on the side of evil. If all of that develops by the end of Season 8, just 7 issues into the future, the statement about Buffy and her Slayer army, and Angel not being to exist ON THIS PLANE would also be settled. Buffy and all of her allies (including Spike?) and Angel, would be banished to another dimension. If Willow was the one to open the interdimensional portal, and she had to remain on this side in order to reclose it, that would explain why she was still around during Fray's time, and it could even explain the return of the vampires/lurks at that time. All of the pieces of the puzzle coming together to form one clear picture.

(Damn, but I'm good!)

So, if that's how Season 8 ends, how could we possibly have a Season 9? Someone else can figure that one out.

 

[Krj2501]

So, if that's how Season 8 ends, how could we possibly have a Season 9? Someone else can figure that one out.

How could we have a season 9 - if that happens. That's actually easy to answer. Remember "Angel: After the Fall" Where Angel, his group, and all of Los Angeles are a Hell dimension.

Basically that's how - Joss could do a Season 9 in that case.

 

[white avenger]

How could we have a season 9 - if that happens. That's actually easy to answer. Remember "Angel: After the Fall" Where Angel, his group, and all of Los Angeles are a Hell dimension.

Basically that's how - Joss could do a Season 9 in that case.

Except in that case (in mine, too, I realized after posting it, that would basically take all of the characters from the IDW series and send them to Never Never Land along with Buffy and her crew. I doubt that Dark House would allow Joss to do that,just out of professional courtesy. This crossover thing is getting more complicated as it progresses.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Bear in mind that we are talking about the Joss Whedon here who brought us the deaths of Joyce, Anya, Cordy, Fred, Wes, and Jenny Calendar, plus having Buffy herself send Angel to hell as well as dying herself. Destroying his main characters has never been something that Joss has shied away from if there is a good story as a result. (Besides, he can always resurrect them in the next season)

The very shock factor alone of having Buffy AND Angel die as the finale of this season, and in addition leaving all of the current Slayers, Faith included, powerless would fill Joss with sheer shivers of delight.

Nah! I don't belive in it. Buffy is his baby, Buffy and Angel are his life works, he's not going to let them go just like that. There is going to be some kind of twist.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

So, if that's how Season 8 ends, how could we possibly have a Season 9? Someone else can figure that one out.

Just because the characters are in a different world doesn't mean they're not doing anything interesting. (Scott Allie mentioned something cryptic about how season 9 will be "a different landscape" for them.)

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

Just because the characters are in a different world doesn't mean they're not doing anything interesting. (Scott Allie mentioned something cryptic about how season 9 will be "a different landscape" for them.)

Another dimension or a parallel universe is possible.

 

[Adam]

Maybe the glow is some form of radiation and Buffy explodes and turns the world into a post-apocalyptic wasteland!
:eek2: