Bangel Post NFA?

[Mrs Gordo]

Would Bangel post NFA work?
Is Bangel better left in the history books or could you see a future for them? (Interested in perspective from comic book readers too if there are in fact any Bangel comic book readers!)
What types of struggles would a post NFA Bangel face?
Are they too different now for the relationship to work?

 

[Mylie]

I read the comic books though I'm a bit late as I haven't started s11 yet!

I don't see Bangel ever happening again in the comics. The 2 titles would make it hard to write a relationship between them, Joss has never been particularly interested in the relationship and at this point I don't think he wants to displease Spuffy shippers who are the majority of the people buying the comics. Bangel shippers have long stopped reading them, in general.

That said, it's not because a relationship couldn't work. They're both struggling heroes and while they most definitely wouldn't agree on everything, it would be fun to watch!

Struggles they could face : they're both leaders so I think they might disagree on tactics at times and both would want to have their way.
I think they'd also struggle with everyone judging them because the last 2 times they had sex it almost resulted in the end of the world and something like that happening for a second time makes it pretty much certain that people will equal bangel sex to end of the world. I know I did lol. So I think there'd be lots of justifying, awkwardness and constant worrying.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

I read the comic books though I'm a bit late as I haven't started s11 yet!

I don't see Bangel ever happening again in the comics. The 2 titles would make it hard to write a relationship between them, Joss has never been particularly interested in the relationship and at this point I don't think he wants to displease Spuffy shippers who are the majority of the people buying the comics. Bangel shippers have long stopped reading them, in general.

That said, it's not because a relationship couldn't work. They're both struggling heroes and while they most definitely wouldn't agree on everything, it would be fun to watch!

Struggles they could face : they're both leaders so I think they might disagree on tactics at times and both would want to have their way.
I think they'd also struggle with everyone judging them because the last 2 times they had sex it almost resulted in the end of the world and something like that happening for a second time makes it pretty much certain that people will equal bangel sex to end of the world. I know I did lol. So I think there'd be lots of justifying, awkwardness and constant worrying.

Money talks. No Bangel in future unless you count fan fiction that might be written by Bangel shippers. I hope that happens.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I don't see Bangel ever happening again in the comics. The 2 titles would make it hard to write a relationship between them, Joss has never been particularly interested in the relationship and at this point I don't think he wants to displease Spuffy shippers who are the majority of the people buying the comics. Bangel shippers have long stopped reading them, in general.

Has Joss ever been quoted or asked about Bangel in the comics and plans? I have been read the comics in bits and pieces. I read the B/A cross over with Archeaus. They definitely left the question of Buffy's feelings for Angel open ended. While I know Joss loves his Spuffy and doesn't want to piss fans off he also has a tendency to break people's hearts. I'm sure this Spuffy thing can't last forever. Right??

In my younger days Bangel was the much more dominant ship. I wonder what changed and how much the comics had to do with it.

 

[Antho]

In my younger days Bangel was the much more dominant ship. I wonder what changed and how much the comics had to do with it.

I often read thing like this : "When I was younger, when I watched the series the first times I was a Bangel fan but now I grow up and I'm totally Spuffy". A lot of Spuffy fan of today were Bangel fans yesterday. I guess opinions change.

 

[Mylie]

Has Joss ever been quoted or asked about Bangel in the comics and plans? I have been read the comics in bits and pieces. I read the B/A cross over with Archeaus. They definitely left the question of Buffy's feelings for Angel open ended. While I know Joss loves his Spuffy and doesn't want to piss fans off he also has a tendency to break people's hearts. I'm sure this Spuffy thing can't last forever. Right??

In my younger days Bangel was the much more dominant ship. I wonder what changed and how much the comics had to do with it.

I honestly have no idea. I didn't read the comics when they came out. I started reading them a year ago.

I often read thing like this : "When I was younger, when I watched the series the first times I was a Bangel fan but now I grow up and I'm totally Spuffy". A lot of Spuffy fan of today were Bangel fans yesterday. I guess opinions change.

I think it's mostly fans starting the show rooting for Bangel and then when Angel left the show and it focused on Spike and Spuffy they changed their minds and started shipping it. Spuffy is also more popular because new fans watching the show now tend to prefer the romance that gets developed with time. I don't think it's necessarily growing up = shipping Spuffy, I think it's just fans going along with what the show is doing/focusing on.

 

[Antho]

I think it's mostly fans starting to show rooting for Bangel and then when Angel left the show and they focused on Spike and Spuffy they changed their minds and started shipping it. Spuffy is also more popular because new fans watching the show now tend to prefer the romance that gets developed with time. I don't think it's necessarily growing up = shipping Spuffy, I think it's just fans going along with what the show is doing/focusing on.

I don't think so.. because back in 2003, at the end of the series, I think Bangel was the most popular ship of the series. In fact, I have heard by some fans who are fans since the beginning that Spuffy wasn't really popular during the time of the show. The popularity of the ship have increased during years, when people grew up.

 

[Mylie]

I don't think so.. because back in 2003, at the end of the series, I think Bangel was the most popular ship of the series. In fact, I have heard by some fans who are fans since the beginning that Spuffy wasn't really popular during the time of the show. The popularity of the ship have increased during years, when people grew up.

That's not at all my experience from watching live. Bangel was always popular with the large audience and Spuffy was always (well from s5 on) the most popular ship in the fandom.

And why would a writer like David Fury react so strongly to fandom's reaction of the pairing if it wasn't really popular? 😵

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I think there is a post NFA story to be told. I think it would be a rediscovery of this relationship.

I don't have a good grasp of the characters in the comics it's not my preferred medium and it all feels a bit campy but if we are talking shows only Buffy and Angel were so battle scared from their later seasons bringing them together would probably look a little darker at least at first.

Coming to terms with the fact that Buffy isn't the hopeful young woman but hardened by the many sacrifices and battles and her resurrection. I bet Buffy would resent Angel for not being there for her during her depression.

Dealing with Cordy/Spike stuff would be a hurdle. And Buffy's strange ass trust issues with Angel.

But if they could get over themselves, big IF they might find that they can be with the one person they can share their burdens with and who would be a true partner. I have never seen Buffy allow herself be vulnerable with anyone but Angel.

The love is there. That's for sure.
 

And why would a writer like David Fury react so strongly to fandom's reaction of the pairing of it wasn't really popular? 😵

Can you elaborate? I'm curious.

 

[Antho]

That's not at all my experience. Bangel was always popular with the large audience and Spuffy was always (well after s5) the most popular ship in the fandom.

You may be right, honestly I don't know. I didn't watch the series when it aired, I watched several years later and I'm only on fandom since three years. I'm just saying what people told to me.

And why would a writer like David Fury react so strongly to fandom's reaction of the pairing of it wasn't really popular? 😵

Can you explain ? I don't know anything about David Fury and this comment you are talking.

 

[Mylie]

I think there is a post NFA story to be told. I think it would be a rediscovery of this relationship.

Can you elaborate? I'm curious.

Can you explain ? I don't know anything about David Fury and this comment you are talking.

It's off topic for this thread so I'll be brief. He was shocked that fans were rooting for Spike to get with Buffy during seasons 5 and 6 and said some harsh things about them, something like spuffy fans being the type of women who would marry serial killers in prison. He was very anti spuffy and it showed in his episodes. I don't think there would have been a point in him reacting this way if spuffy wasn't that popular.

There's also a reason why they gave more focus to Spike in later seasons. He was a popular character and the fans wanted him to get the girl.

 

[white avenger]

As an outsider here, and feel free to delete this post if it is deemed inappropriate, I would like to say that I don't think anyone, non-Bangel shippers included, doubt that the love between Buffy and Angel was, and still is, real. The big hurtle to overcome is, of course, the near certainty that Angel would lose his soul if they were ever together again. If, for some reason, tomorrow, that part of the curse was somehow removed, it might make for an interesting story line to see the reactions of Buffy, Angel, and Spike, and what the ultimate outcome might be.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Bangel was always popular with the large audience and Spuffy was always (well from s5 on) the most popular ship in the fandom.

Online fandom. Not general fandom (a lot of whom don't go on Buffy specific boards or online to talk Buffy). The general audience IMO rejected the Spike/Spuffy heavy Seasons while the online fandom thrived, to the point where they bullied everyone else out of the fandom. Now true the UPN had less coverage than the WB but S7 had S1 bad ratings. People were more interested in reruns than new episodes, at least that was the case in the US (the only ratings that counted for networks). So while the online fandom was all Spike/Spuffy and sadly Whedon & Co. made the rookie mistake of listening, the general audience lost interest. Then again, the ratings had been declining ever since S4 but by S7 barely anyone was watching live anymore.

IMO Bangel post both shows always had the potential to be interesting. They were different people by then. And given their roles, status and characters it would have been a relationship filled with conflict, fights, hurdles and difficulty but all that mushy, gooey love stuff too. It would have just been more interesting because it would be a relationship of equals, rather than one wearing the pants and the other being the faithful lapdog.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

As an outsider here, and feel free to delete this post if it is deemed inappropriate, I would like to say that I don't think anyone, non-Bangel shippers included, doubt that the love between Buffy and Angel was, and still is, real. The big hurtle to overcome is, of course, the near certainty that Angel would lose his soul if they were ever together again. If, for some reason, tomorrow, that part of the curse was somehow removed, it might make for an interesting story line to see the reactions of Buffy, Angel, and Spike, and what the ultimate outcome might be.

I wish they would put the dumb curse to rest its become a pretty stupid hurdle by this time. We have stopped many apocalypses (apocalypsi?) defeated gods, ended magic but gee golly wiz what do we do about this gypsy curse? Lol. If I was a Spuffy fan I'd want her to decide to be with Spike even knowing no curse was preventing her from being with Angel.

 

[Mylie]

Online fandom. Not general fandom (a lot of whom don't go on Buffy specific boards or online to talk Buffy). The general audience IMO rejected the Spike/Spuffy heavy Seasons while the online fandom thrived, to the point where they bullied everyone else out of the fandom. Now true the UPN had less coverage than the WB but S7 had S1 bad ratings. People were more interested in reruns than new episodes, at least that was the case in the US (the only ratings that counted for networks). So while the online fandom was all Spike/Spuffy and sadly Whedon & Co. made the rookie mistake of listening, the general audience lost interest. Then again, the ratings had been declining ever since S4 but by S7 barely anyone was watching live anymore.

I mean, I said Bangel was popular with the large audience and Spuffy in the fandom... ? Is there a BtVS fandom that isn't online? For me, the concept of fandom is directly linked to the internet. The general audience are NOT part of the fandom, they're casual viewers.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Is there a BtVS fandom that isn't online?

Yep. A lot of non-Spike/Spuffy fans that used to be part of the fandom. Just because they were bullied out and they quit doesn't make them less of the fandom IMO.

 

[Mylie]

IMO Bangel post both shows always had the potential to be interesting. They were different people by then. And given their roles, status and characters it would have been a relationship filled with conflict, fights, hurdles and difficulty but all that mushy, gooey love stuff too. It would have just been more interesting because it would be a relationship of equals, rather than one wearing the pants and the other being the faithful lapdog.

Definitely agree with this though! You guys are making it hard to not change my mind about my being okay with no more Bangel lol. The more I read about what it could have been, the more I'm disappointed we didn't get it, and wish we could have it now. But I guess for it to work, it would have meant someone other than Joss writing it so.
 

Yep. A lot of non-Spike/Spuffy fans that used to be part of the fandom. Just because they were bullied out and they quit doesn't make them less of the fandom IMO.

But they were still online at the time. That's not a «general audience». A general audience is one that doesn't care enough to engage in discussions about the show etc. but still enjoy watching it casually. I do agree that lots of Bangel shippers left the fandom during those years but they wouldn't have left if the Spuffy shippers who «bullied them» weren't everywhere? So basically just proving my point that Spuffy was popular.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Definitely agree with this though! You guys are making it hard to not change my mind about my being okay with no more Bangel lol. The more I read about what it could have been, the more I'm disappointed we didn't get it, and wish we could have it now. But I guess for it to work, it would have meant someone other than Joss writing it so.

IMO a post-Shanshu Angel story or a Bangel post show story or both was absolutely worth exploring. But it needs someone with talent who respects the characters as what they developed into which is not Whedon (see S8) because he doesn't get it. Too blinded by whatever nonsense story he wants to tell.

But they were still online at the time. That's not a «general audience». A general audience is one that doesn't care enough to engage in discussions about the show etc. but still enjoy watching it casually. I do agree that lots of Bangel shippers left the fandom during those years but they wouldn't have left if the Spuffy shippers who «bullied them» weren't everywhere? So basically just proving my point that Spuffy was popular.

You do know what multiple accounts are, right? Some people literally had no life (still don't) and went everywhere on the net to talk Spuffy. And I'm not just talking Bangel shippers, I'm talking non-Spike/Spuffy fans in general (like me). There's a reason why, when TwOP became what it was after switching names and such, that the collective Spike/Spuffy brigade was kicked from the boards. There were still some of them left after but only the non-fanatical kind or those that could hide it for the boards sake. 😛 So post that era made TwOP great for discussion. I often revisit the old stuff for several shows because you have so many different opinions.

Just like BB is usually a better place when there are no fanatical fans driving people crazy.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

But they were still online at the time. That's not a «general audience». A general audience is one that doesn't care enough to engage in discussions about the show etc. but still enjoy watching it casually. I do agree that lots of Bangel shippers left the fandom during those years but they wouldn't have left if the Spuffy shippers who «bullied them» weren't everywhere? So basically just proving my point that Spuffy was popular.

For what it's worth, at first watch I was part of the "general audience." I never joined a forum or board etc. I loved the show and watched it with my friends. None of us liked Spuffy arc so I was in my own little world.

I checked back with the fandom during subsequent rewatches probably sometime in 2006 ish? A few years after the shows ended. I swear that there was a LOT of Bangel support. Lots of forums that were related directly to Angel and Buffy even. And tons of fan fiction, which I never bothered reading but I remember tons of websites for them.

I just recently rejoined this boards and started looking around the fandom online and the Spuffy ship has significantly seemed to become the more popular ship. I honestly think, and I could be wrong, but my theory is the fact that all of the new material from the comics we are getting has continued to explore the relationship where as Bangel is just a distant memory at this point.

 

[Mylie]

Of course the comics are helping.

I also think that that kind of ship has grown in popularity over the years. Just look at how popular Delena and Captain Swan are compared to Stelena and Swan Thief.