Bangel vs. Spuffy

Wren Summers

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Jul 18, 2009
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With all the arguing/debating going on around here, I decided to create a Bangel vs. Spuffy vid, and, well, a thread. So feel free to post your feelings about both couples here and let me know what you think of the video. I tried not to be biased.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOwksmAQXzU"]YouTube - Thinking Over: Bangel vs. Spuffy[/ame]
 
ItMustBeBunnies
ItMustBeBunnies
Very cool vid! Well done!:)
laianna
laianna
Very good video, it shows the question well.
R
Rayne
VERY GOOD!!! I loved it!!!
I thought that was an excellent video, Wren, and ironically linear: the first scene was of Angel and Buffy and the last scene was with Spike and Buffy (excluding the comic book scan).

I've had my own epiphany on the Bangel vs. Spuffy front.

If none of you mind, I think I'll share it. 🙂

I like to think of myself as an objective fan who bases a great deal of his beliefs on what we are shown. For me, the relationship between Buffy and Angel represents the ultimate incarnation of the "star crossed lovers" theme. I think their feelings for eachother are the purest that Buffy has ever felt; a deep, unconditional love. Angel's repeated sacrifice for Buffy's happiness and well being is also a sign of tremendous love for her; something that Spike only begins to possess in season five of Angel.

For both Buffy and Angel, I think that they will never quite get over one another. I think Joss has made it repeatedly and incontrovertibly clear that they will always care for one another. Is it a friendship? Well, I have to say no. Not really. Spike's assessment of them in "Lover's Walk" was spot on. They aren't really friends. They treat each other like acquaintances -- they care deeply for one another, but realize that any attempt at an active friendship will only lead to them wanting something more.

But should either of them ever need each other, the other will always be there to lend a hand. I think Angel or Buffy would, without hesitation, sacrifice themselves for the other. That's a deep connection that will never, ever fade.

So are they still in love? I think so. I'm sure, each and every day, they think of each other and wish they could have made it work.

This is what initially turned me off to Spuffy work: most of what I read involves treating Angel and Buffy's relationship with him as though it never happened. That's pathetic, in my opinion, and a responsible Spuffy fan should (IMO) acknowledge that Angel will always have a piece of Buffy's heart. And that if Spike ever tosses his name into the fray, Buffy's not going to give him a blank expression like "who the hell is he?"

As far as Spike and Buffy's relationship goes, I think a responsible audience member will have to admit that it started out as utterly and completely self-destructive, without an ounce of happiness, positivity, or progression. It was completely physical, never emotional. But Spike demonstrated that while he will never be as legendary or as feared as Angelus, he is unique in his own way: more evolved, and loved Buffy enough that he fought for his soul, overpowering most of his demonic nature even before he had it!

Their friendship and loyalty to one another became truly profound and touching in season seven. Though Buffy might never admit it, I think Spike ascended to Xander- or Willow-level in her world. She loved him and trusted him explicitly, which is an amusing and great contrast with her ultimate feeling towards Angel: once Angel took over Wolfram & Hart, none of the Scoobies trusted him anymore.

In that regard, I think Spike and Buffy enjoyed a friendship and a connection that Angel and Buffy never did; never could. Spike became the type who would be godfather material, looking out for Buffy and Dawn and the others in his own way, not the distant manner in which Angel did (i.e. having a flunkie keep tabs on her).

Did she love Spike? Yes, I think so. And without reservation. I think she loved him the way she loved Willow, Xander, and Giles.

Do I think Buffy was in love with Spike? No. Going back to a reflection of canon, I see absolutely nothing that would ever convince me that she was in love with Spike.

But the big question is: could Buffy have fallen in love with Spike? And I think yes. Given time, I could see Buffy and Spike becoming more than friends.

So I suppose I see the allure of both Spuffy and Bangel. As far as what we have seen, I think there can be absolutely no question as to which of the vampires held her heart more: Angel. While I agree Buffy could have fallen in love with Spike, it would have taken time.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Karma for this great post.
W
Wren Summers
I pretty much agree with all of this. Great post :)
*SIGH* I've been over this subject so many times and I have volumes to write over it. I used to bellieve that Spike was the one and only for Buffy but finally my view has changed. I just think they should all move in with each other and have sloppy, crazy, freaky....well, you know. And they should dedicate an entire episode to it. But if only two make it. It should be Spangel. 😛
 
P
Perny
Spangel is a nice alternative...Who needs Buffy. Let's have freaky gay vampire gay action!
WOW it's wonderful. Great work!

I don't know... I love Spuffy in s7, but I hate them in s6.
And I like Bangel, but I prefer Angel with Darla or Cordelia.
 
Wow it was really good. One of the best video i've ever seen!

My vote is for Spuffy. Season 6 is passion, season 7 is love. They were great together. And I think Spike was the only person who understands Buffy.
 
I thought that was an excellent video, Wren, and ironically linear: the first scene was of Angel and Buffy and the last scene was with Spike and Buffy (excluding the comic book scan).

I've had my own epiphany on the Bangel vs. Spuffy front.

If none of you mind, I think I'll share it. 🙂

I like to think of myself as an objective fan who bases a great deal of his beliefs on what we are shown. For me, the relationship between Buffy and Angel represents the ultimate incarnation of the "star crossed lovers" theme. I think their feelings for eachother are the purest that Buffy has ever felt; a deep, unconditional love. Angel's repeated sacrifice for Buffy's happiness and well being is also a sign of tremendous love for her; something that Spike only begins to possess in season five of Angel.

For both Buffy and Angel, I think that they will never quite get over one another. I think Joss has made it repeatedly and incontrovertibly clear that they will always care for one another. Is it a friendship? Well, I have to say no. Not really. Spike's assessment of them in "Lover's Walk" was spot on. They aren't really friends. They treat each other like acquaintances -- they care deeply for one another, but realize that any attempt at an active friendship will only lead to them wanting something more.

But should either of them ever need each other, the other will always be there to lend a hand. I think Angel or Buffy would, without hesitation, sacrifice themselves for the other. That's a deep connection that will never, ever fade.

So are they still in love? I think so. I'm sure, each and every day, they think of each other and wish they could have made it work.

This is what initially turned me off to Spuffy work: most of what I read involves treating Angel and Buffy's relationship with him as though it never happened. That's pathetic, in my opinion, and a responsible Spuffy fan should (IMO) acknowledge that Angel will always have a piece of Buffy's heart. And that if Spike ever tosses his name into the fray, Buffy's not going to give him a blank expression like "who the hell is he?"

As far as Spike and Buffy's relationship goes, I think a responsible audience member will have to admit that it started out as utterly and completely self-destructive, without an ounce of happiness, positivity, or progression. It was completely physical, never emotional. But Spike demonstrated that while he will never be as legendary or as feared as Angelus, he is unique in his own way: more evolved, and loved Buffy enough that he fought for his soul, overpowering most of his demonic nature even before he had it!

Their friendship and loyalty to one another became truly profound and touching in season seven. Though Buffy might never admit it, I think Spike ascended to Xander- or Willow-level in her world. She loved him and trusted him explicitly, which is an amusing and great contrast with her ultimate feeling towards Angel: once Angel took over Wolfram & Hart, none of the Scoobies trusted him anymore.

In that regard, I think Spike and Buffy enjoyed a friendship and a connection that Angel and Buffy never did; never could. Spike became the type who would be godfather material, looking out for Buffy and Dawn and the others in his own way, not the distant manner in which Angel did (i.e. having a flunkie keep tabs on her).

Did she love Spike? Yes, I think so. And without reservation. I think she loved him the way she loved Willow, Xander, and Giles.

Do I think Buffy was in love with Spike? No. Going back to a reflection of canon, I see absolutely nothing that would ever convince me that she was in love with Spike.

But the big question is: could Buffy have fallen in love with Spike? And I think yes. Given time, I could see Buffy and Spike becoming more than friends.

So I suppose I see the allure of both Spuffy and Bangel. As far as what we have seen, I think there can be absolutely no question as to which of the vampires held her heart more: Angel. While I agree Buffy could have fallen in love with Spike, it would have taken time.

Oh my. What a great fantastic post, Gideon!
You just literally wrote exactly how I feel about this issue. I too have always believed that she wasn't in love with him at that point of his death - she was starting to realize that she was falling in love with Spike. And yes, he was her best friend - he understood her like no one else, and he knew her better than anyone else. As I've said before, I ship the possibility of Spuffy. What they could have been, what they could have accomplished together if more time had been given to them.

I'm so glad you can see where us Spuffies are coming from now, even though you're still a Bangel 😉
 
Thank you.

And, I really don't know what I'd describe myself. I preferred Bangel, but there is awesome Spuffy potential. Personally, I've reached the conclusion that Angel should soldier on alone. I'm not even sure I want him to have the Shanshu since he signed it away.

Not because I prefer Spike or don't think Angel deserves happiness, I just think it's more powerful if he gives it all away. That man does more sacrificing than any character in both shows.
 
I thought that was an excellent video, Wren, and ironically linear: the first scene was of Angel and Buffy and the last scene was with Spike and Buffy (excluding the comic book scan).

I've had my own epiphany on the Bangel vs. Spuffy front.

If none of you mind, I think I'll share it. 🙂

I like to think of myself as an objective fan who bases a great deal of his beliefs on what we are shown. For me, the relationship between Buffy and Angel represents the ultimate incarnation of the "star crossed lovers" theme. I think their feelings for eachother are the purest that Buffy has ever felt; a deep, unconditional love. Angel's repeated sacrifice for Buffy's happiness and well being is also a sign of tremendous love for her; something that Spike only begins to possess in season five of Angel.

For both Buffy and Angel, I think that they will never quite get over one another. I think Joss has made it repeatedly and incontrovertibly clear that they will always care for one another. Is it a friendship? Well, I have to say no. Not really. Spike's assessment of them in "Lover's Walk" was spot on. They aren't really friends. They treat each other like acquaintances -- they care deeply for one another, but realize that any attempt at an active friendship will only lead to them wanting something more.

But should either of them ever need each other, the other will always be there to lend a hand. I think Angel or Buffy would, without hesitation, sacrifice themselves for the other. That's a deep connection that will never, ever fade.

So are they still in love? I think so. I'm sure, each and every day, they think of each other and wish they could have made it work.

This is what initially turned me off to Spuffy work: most of what I read involves treating Angel and Buffy's relationship with him as though it never happened. That's pathetic, in my opinion, and a responsible Spuffy fan should (IMO) acknowledge that Angel will always have a piece of Buffy's heart. And that if Spike ever tosses his name into the fray, Buffy's not going to give him a blank expression like "who the hell is he?"

As far as Spike and Buffy's relationship goes, I think a responsible audience member will have to admit that it started out as utterly and completely self-destructive, without an ounce of happiness, positivity, or progression. It was completely physical, never emotional. But Spike demonstrated that while he will never be as legendary or as feared as Angelus, he is unique in his own way: more evolved, and loved Buffy enough that he fought for his soul, overpowering most of his demonic nature even before he had it!

Their friendship and loyalty to one another became truly profound and touching in season seven. Though Buffy might never admit it, I think Spike ascended to Xander- or Willow-level in her world. She loved him and trusted him explicitly, which is an amusing and great contrast with her ultimate feeling towards Angel: once Angel took over Wolfram & Hart, none of the Scoobies trusted him anymore.

In that regard, I think Spike and Buffy enjoyed a friendship and a connection that Angel and Buffy never did; never could. Spike became the type who would be godfather material, looking out for Buffy and Dawn and the others in his own way, not the distant manner in which Angel did (i.e. having a flunkie keep tabs on her).

Did she love Spike? Yes, I think so. And without reservation. I think she loved him the way she loved Willow, Xander, and Giles.

Do I think Buffy was in love with Spike? No. Going back to a reflection of canon, I see absolutely nothing that would ever convince me that she was in love with Spike.

But the big question is: could Buffy have fallen in love with Spike? And I think yes. Given time, I could see Buffy and Spike becoming more than friends.

So I suppose I see the allure of both Spuffy and Bangel. As far as what we have seen, I think there can be absolutely no question as to which of the vampires held her heart more: Angel. While I agree Buffy could have fallen in love with Spike, it would have taken time.

This is one of the best analogies of Spuffy and Bangel I've ever heard, except I think Buffy did love Spike, just because she needed him so much at the time. I will agree that it will never be as much as she loved Angel, but I think she did at some point at least. Don't get me wrong, I am a total and complete Spuffy-er, but I must admit you are right.

BTW, great vid!!!! Definetly, without a doubt, the best Spuffy and Bangel video I've seen! Great song choice and everything. Really well done. =)

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------

*SIGH* I've been over this subject so many times and I have volumes to write over it. I used to bellieve that Spike was the one and only for Buffy but finally my view has changed. I just think they should all move in with each other and have sloppy, crazy, freaky....well, you know. And they should dedicate an entire episode to it. But if only two make it. It should be Spangel. 😛
Perny agrees: Spangel is a nice alternative...Who needs Buffy. Let's have freaky gay vampire gay action!

Omigod the best idea of ALL TIME!!!! I am all the way for it!!!
 
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