For your information hon and In a mad moment I actually went onto places such as Whedonesque yesterday to look for old links, but they were all dead. But then considering how long ago this all happened I'm not surprised, are you?
Point me to the Whedonesque links, maybe I can track it down (well prove it doesn't exist, lets be honest).
What was the name of this super secret Spike forum? Was it We Band of Buggard?
But yes, I am surprised. Why can I find any point I've ever needed to back up reference somewhere? Dont worry if you can't, some of us that have been doing this a long time are old pros now. Point me to the Whedonesque links, I'll have a look?
And absolutely some references are harder to find, but they aren't impossible, it's the internet, nothing is ever gone.
The hardest thing I had to find was that quote from fury comparing Spuffies to women who marry murderers in prison, that was pretty much the only one I've had to search for ages for to find the direct quote, that was on the Bronze forums, which is gone, but yet the direct quote can still be found out there now.
The fact you can't find any mention of this, neither can I, and the fact that Whedon had plans involving Spike just means this can't be true.
Also do you realise that back then some forums had locked down sections that weren't visible to the public gaze unless you were a member? Nah, I guess not. 🙂
It's not the idea of locked down forums I find preposterous, it's the idea of locked down information. Especially in fandom.
I think this is a made up piece of information, either by someone else, or something you've gotten confused. Maybe your mixing up the fact that Angel was supposed to stay dead after season 2, but was brought back in season 3.
Bit of a coincidence that a direct story that is about Angels character happened to Spikes character 5 years later?
But then judging by how you talk you obviously weren't around, or went to the same boards I belonged to way back then.
Well seeing how the forums you were a member of clearly didn't require sources, facts or backed up information I'm not surprised they are gone now. Whereas somewhere like here, were members expect sources, are still going.
I'm glad I was never a member, and instead I'm part of a board where people can prove their information and have been for a very long time.
So I decided to go and do some thorough searching on this, so we could put in to bed and show what was wrong with the statement.
I can find no mention, at ALL that Spike was to appear only in Flashbacks in Angel season 5, I've seen it mentioned he was to be a recurring character, as he was going to be in one of the other spin offs, but either way the intention was ALWAYS to bring him back. Joss never intended to keep him dead as you stated.
http://www.tvguide.com/news/Buffys-Loss-Angels-36807.aspx - Oct 2002, Joss says that if Buffy ends some characters may move over but doesn't say which
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/15757 - News article about leaked Angel season 5 episode 2 script where Spike is a "ghost", published July 30th (just over a month after he burned up)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/interviews/joss2003/page4.shtml interview question from around the time the final aired saying they have a surprise for Angel season 5 that gets started in the Buffy final (I presume he means Spike)
http://www.tvguide.com/news/Buh-Bye-Buffy-38495.aspx - Oct 2002, Whedon first mentions the series may be in it's last season and the possibility of a Faith spin off.
That ones important as Time Minear has stated that Spike was to be the second lead in the Faith Spin off.
So the idea was Spike would be the second lead on Faith and could recur on Angel - that doesn't sound like Joss wanted him kept dead.
When Faith didn't pan out he was going to be male lead in the Slayer School spin off.
The only recurring FACT is that no matter what Spike was never staying dead, and no one mentions flashbacks.
And just to back everything up with sources, you can listen to the full podcast of Tim Minear and David Fury
http://mp3bear.com/succubus-club-dfury-tminear
The bits about Spike ALWAYS intended to be on whatever spin off happens is at around minuet 60, but here are some quick paraphrased quotes:
(on brining on spike) "it was a no brainer"
Minear:"I was gonna create it with Joss (Faith Spin off), we'd figured it out"
"Whether there was talks of Faith, or Slayer School or whatever, we are gonna keep James employed"
"He was gonna be the second lead in the Faith series, or the Male lead in the School for Slayers thing"
"Whatever was going to happen, James was going to be a part of it"
"It was always our intention to bring Spike over (the Angel), but not as a regular, but that was one of the things that pushed the network to pick up the show"
"The WB said 'can you make him a regular', and we said 'will that help the show get picked up?'"
"None of the plans we made for Angel, none of the set ups have changed"
That quote alone disproves any notion that Spike was to "stay dead", while James mentioned at a convention on January 2003(4 months before the final aired) that he read the final script : "I finally found out myself what Joss is planning...and I'm SURE as hell not gonna tell you guys...but I will tell you guys that the end of this season is going to be...very romantic...very heartbreaking...and you guys are probably going to HATE it"
http://whedonesque.com/comments/712
Which means that by the earliest (January) Spike was dying, yet there had already been talk 3 months earlier of the Faith spin off that Spike would second lead. The Faith spin off was shot down sometime between February/March and May, While Slayer School has never had a timeline and hadn't really seemed to have gotten past the pitching phase (
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/14787), and around the time Faith was shot down discussions started for Spike to move to Angel as a regular, helping the WB to pick it up.
So if you can get me those links for the "staying dead" and "flashbacks" I'd love to take a look, but as you can see from my source filled data (how it's done here) it doesn't seem like it's out there.
