Born This Way (Gaga's new song)

[zobothehobo]

What are your opinions?

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I have a hard time respecting anything Lady Gaga does concerning sexuality because I feel she's trying to cash in on the "controversial nature" of it (much like Glee)... but on the other hand, the song is really catchy. I like how she speaks out against drag (I honestly think drag does more harm to the gay rights plight than nearly anything) although I don't like how she says "just be a queen." Terms like "queen" hurt us just as bad as drag does. The ONLY term someone who wants to fight for equality should be using right now is "gay people." Not "gays" which implies we're not people (you wouldn't say "blacks" would you?) not "queens," not "queer," "gay people" should be it. But other than that, I kind of like it. I love how it's not just about homophobia... it includes racism too.

I also think she's going to ruin everything good this song has with making the video outlandish, over the top and full of "stereotypical crazy over the top gay things." Like I can totally see drag in this video although in the song she speaks against it. I can also see clips from pride parades (that are crazy, over the top, and NOT what we need to be doing right now) and it's going to ruin everything good it has by making it crazy. 'Cause the world's going to fall apart if she doesn't make EVERYTHING she does insane and over the top.

 

[Kean]

I don't really agree that drag or gay pride parades should be toned down. It's part of a culture and I really don't believe that something that doesn't harm anyone should be reigned in because other people can't handle it.

I do agree that she seems to be jumping on issues and kind of discrediting them a bit. I think her songs are good enough and have no problem saying that Bad Romance is one of the best songs of the last decade but I'm just not convinced she is the Messiah of Pop.

 

[msfantastico87]

I haven't heard the song. Don't plan on doing so any time soon. I used to adore Gaga. But like you, I feel like she got too power hungry and just everything she does now has no meaning. She wasn't like this before. I read in several places that all of the hype has gotten her to start abusing cocaine and trying to be a "real rock star" by getting drunk and using drugs. A bunch of pictures surfaced of her that were quite disturbing. She was drunk off her behind and sending nude photos of herself in "compromising" situations to her friends. This isn't the Stefani we know. Sure, when she first started she was a normal girl. then she started dressing a bit extravagantly.Now? Now she just disturbs me to no end.

Also it really irks me and pisses me off when people say they want to compare it to Madonna's 'Express Yourself'. One of my friends on FB said he wanted to have a Original and Glee version mashup of the songs. If this happens, I have lost faith in all humanity. How can you compare this song, or Gaga for that matter, to Madonna? I mean yes, they are both controversial, but no one, and I mean no one, can be compared to Lady Gaga. Britney Spears tried and failed. Christina Aguilera tried and failed. Lady Gaga....it's just a matter of time.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I like it. I love the lyrics, I love the music.. I love the whole mix. I guess that's Gaga's point.. she's saying what others are afraid of.

 

[Username]

I'm not really a fan of Lady Gaga, Alejandro was a good song but other than that idk, it's just not my thing.. and I don't think dragqueens are doing anything wrong, they're not hurting anyone! gay people shouldn't have to proove that they're "normal" enough to deserve equal rights - they should just have them already because they're people. Pride parades and dragqueens are not what's keeping gay people from having equal rights, it's bigots.

 

[brinkster130]

As far as the song is concerned, its alright; not my favorite song of hers.

I definitely agree that she seems to be talking (or singing) out about controversial issues to cash in on them and get attention. Who knows, her heart could be in the right place, but the way she is going about things does discredit some of these issues.

 

[Abbeycat]

I haven't heard the song. Don't plan on doing so any time soon. I used to adore Gaga. But like you, I feel like she got too power hungry and just everything she does now has no meaning. She wasn't like this before. I read in several places that all of the hype has gotten her to start abusing cocaine and trying to be a "real rock star" by getting drunk and using drugs. A bunch of pictures surfaced of her that were quite disturbing. She was drunk off her behind and sending nude photos of herself in "compromising" situations to her friends. This isn't the Stefani we know. Sure, when she first started she was a normal girl. then she started dressing a bit extravagantly.Now? Now she just disturbs me to no end.

Also it really irks me and pisses me off when people say they want to compare it to Madonna's 'Express Yourself'. One of my friends on FB said he wanted to have a Original and Glee version mashup of the songs. If this happens, I have lost faith in all humanity. How can you compare this song, or Gaga for that matter, to Madonna? I mean yes, they are both controversial, but no one, and I mean no one, can be compared to Lady Gaga. Britney Spears tried and failed. Christina Aguilera tried and failed. Lady Gaga....it's just a matter of time.

I agree w/ you. I couldn't rep you again because I already did on another thread.

I haven't read everything about her abusing cocaine and etc. But I agree, I think she might be getting too power hungry.

 

[xaphania]

I haven't heard it. Where can I hear it? I tried searching for it on youtube but no luck.

 

[Firefly]

I say "Meh" to Lady Gobo or Gabba or whatever she is. Shes a fame whore, shes dresses all strange like because she knows her career will fall sooner or later and thats how she'll be remembered, for dressing like space garbage (or am I thinking of Ke-dollarsign-ha?)

 

[prophecygrrl]

I really dislike Lady Gaga. Her songs are catchy, but I hate how she exploits the LGBT community and treats activism like it's a fashion statement. Ugh.

This song in particular is just ridiculous...I spat out my coffee when I first saw the lyrics. "Orient"? "Chola"? Lmao, does she really not realize how racist and inappropriate it is to use those terms- considering that she is white and therefore has no claim to them? Reclamation of offensive terms is solely for people who are actually members of the marginalized group; hence the 're-' part of 'reclamation'! 😀

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I have a hard time respecting anything Lady Gaga does concerning sexuality because I feel she's trying to cash in on the "controversial nature" of it (much like Glee)... but on the other hand, the song is really catchy. I like how she speaks out against drag (I honestly think drag does more harm to the gay rights plight than nearly anything) although I don't like how she says "just be a queen." Terms like "queen" hurt us just as bad as drag does.

Dressing in drag or crossdressing is a valid sexual expression...I don't think it's really something one can be 'against', per se, if we're fighting for acceptance of all sexual/gender identities.

The ONLY term someone who wants to fight for equality should be using right now is "gay people." Not "gays" which implies we're not people (you wouldn't say "blacks" would you?) not "queens," not "queer," "gay people" should be it.

Not all of us identify as 'gay', lol. QUILTBAG is both one of the most amusing and useful acronyms I've come across to illustrate this:

Q = Queer/Questioning
U = Undecided
I = Intersex
L = Lesbian
T = Trans*
B = Bisexual
A = Asexual
G = Gay/Genderqueer

I agree that Gaga shouldn't say "queen" because similar to "Orient" and "chola", she doesn't have claim to that word. She isn't a gay man and therefore hasn't experienced (and doesn't have the capacity to be oppressed by) the derogatory power of that word/slur. But I disagree with you about the use of terms like "queer" and "queen" when it comes to the general LGBTQIA (or QUILTBAG, if you prefer, lol) community, because both are terms that are actively reclaimed (and considered self-empowering) by the people they refer to.

 

[Marisa]

I actually like Lady Gaga I don't think she is the most original but who is these days? Everyone copies from someone.

I have to listen to the song a few more times to see how i feel about it. I may be in the minority and think she doesn't do this to cash in or for attention. She can get attention all on her own IMO with her outfits and other things.

 

[Ollehh]

I think it's alright, it's not her best song, but still pretty amazing.

 

[zobothehobo]

I really dislike Lady Gaga. Her songs are catchy, but I hate how she exploits the LGBT community and treats activism like it's a fashion statement. Ugh.

This song in particular is just ridiculous...I spat out my coffee when I first saw the lyrics. "Orient"? "Chola"? Lmao, does she really not realize how racist and inappropriate it is to use those terms- considering that she is white and therefore has no claim to them? Reclamation of offensive terms is solely for people who are actually members of the marginalized group; hence the 're-' part of 'reclamation'! 😀



Dressing in drag or crossdressing is a valid sexual expression...I don't think it's really something one can be 'against', per se, if we're fighting for acceptance of all sexual/gender identities.



Not all of us identify as 'gay', lol. QUILTBAG is both one of the most amusing and useful acronyms I've come across to illustrate this:

Q = Queer/Questioning
U = Undecided
I = Intersex
L = Lesbian
T = Trans*
B = Bisexual
A = Asexual
G = Gay/Genderqueer

I agree that Gaga shouldn't say "queen" because similar to "Orient" and "chola", she doesn't have claim to that word. She isn't a gay man and therefore hasn't experienced (and doesn't have the capacity to be oppressed by) the derogatory power of that word/slur. But I disagree with you about the use of terms like "queer" and "queen" when it comes to the general LGBTQIA (or QUILTBAG, if you prefer, lol) community, because both are terms that are actively reclaimed (and considered self-empowering) by the people they refer to.

I was just talking to my friend Edward about this. He is a gay man and he says although he's guilty of it... calling gay men "queens" is like walking into a room and calling them "ladies." It's not good for the message we should be trying to send to make sure we achieve our equal rights.

As far as "queen" and "queer" being empowering... so is "bitch." Does that mean it's ok for women to go around calling each other bitches because it's empowering to some? No. We need to look at the overall context. And right now, I'd say acting as if there is something strange about homosexuality (queer) or that gay men are basically women (queen) is NOT what we need to be saying. And this double standard of terms from within the group and outside the group... I've never understood that. If you're going to say that then the f word (three letter one) should be ok too. I mean some gay men find that empowering from within the group and I know a lot of gay men who use it towards each other. It's like black people using the n word. I've never understood how they could possibly think that's ok. Being part of a minority doesn't give you "claim" to use the offensive slurs and derogatory terms and names for that group. If anything, you should want to use them less.

Also for the record, I never said everyone in the "QUILTBAG" group. I said the only term people should be using right now to describe gay people as a whole if they want to help is "gay people." In the words of my friend Edward "we need to make this an MLK style fight for equality. And step away from the Malcom X stuff." And I honestly couldn't have said it better myself.

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------

I'm not really a fan of Lady Gaga, Alejandro was a good song but other than that idk, it's just not my thing.. and I don't think dragqueens are doing anything wrong, they're not hurting anyone! gay people shouldn't have to proove that they're "normal" enough to deserve equal rights - they should just have them already because they're people. Pride parades and dragqueens are not what's keeping gay people from having equal rights, it's bigots.

No we shouldn't have to prove we're "normal" enough for them. But we do. And we are normal people. The fact of the matter is most gay people are just normal people who aren't all crazy. Most gay men aren't overly effeminate and most lesbians aren't overly butch. On a day to day basis, gay men are not prostitutes and whores like they dress up as in pride parades and that just leads the main opposition to us getting equal rights (the religious right) to say we shouldn't have the rights we deserve because we're perverts who will and want to corrupt society with our perverted ways. If we take away the evidence they have to support this idiotic nonsense, we get closer to getting the rights we deserve. We should be celebrating the normalcy of being gay in pride parades... not the differences. I mean on the one hand we keep saying "we deserve these rights because we're people, just like you (straight people)" and then on the other hand our pride parades and rallies are all "look at how different we are." We celebrate the differences rather than the similarities and therefore bring them into view more than the similarities.

I could write a book on this... it pisses me off to no end.

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

If you're going to say that then the f word (three letter one) should be ok too. I mean some gay men find that empowering from within the group and I know a lot of gay men who use it towards each other. It's like black people using the n word. I've never understood how they could possibly think that's ok. Being part of a minority doesn't give you "claim" to use the offensive slurs and derogatory terms and names for that group. If anything, you should want to use them less.

Agree totally and completely.

I never use any term other than the "politically correct" term to describe who someone is. On the same hand, i don't use gay to describe anything besides people who actually are and, occasionally, me being happy (I was raised a little bit old-fashioned). I will use "homosexual," because that's what it is. Never any other form of that.

I am all for standing up to people peacefully, I do it all the time. No, we don't need to make a big deal out of it with metallic dresses and catchy lyrics (alright, maybe catchy lyrics are ok). Yes, we need to draw attention to it! I'm sure anyone who is "QUILTBAG" has had a horror story. It's one of the things that made me so reluctant to tell anyone- even myself- that I was bi until a year and a half ago.

It scared me so much that when I started dating my ex, I didn't "come out of the closet." More like "my girlfriend dragged me kicking and screaming out of the closet." If even someone who is bi or gay or anything is afraid to be, we've got a problem.

So yeah, drawing attention to it is fine. If this helps, I won't say a word. But I don't like the theatricality of this piece right now.

 

[MandaMeena]

I read the lyrics before I heard the song. I didn't really find them too great, but I figured maybe the song would still be catchy. After listening to it, it just sounds like Madonna. Seriously. And I don't even listen to Madonna. It's just not interesting to my ears at all.

 

[prophecygrrl]

As far as "queen" and "queer" being empowering... so is "bitch." Does that mean it's ok for women to go around calling each other bitches because it's empowering to some? No. We need to look at the overall context. And right now, I'd say acting as if there is something strange about homosexuality (queer) or that gay men are basically women (queen) is NOT what we need to be saying. And this double standard of terms from within the group and outside the group... I've never understood that. If you're going to say that then the f word (three letter one) should be ok too. I mean some gay men find that empowering from within the group and I know a lot of gay men who use it towards each other. It's like black people using the n word. I've never understood how they could possibly think that's ok. Being part of a minority doesn't give you "claim" to use the offensive slurs and derogatory terms and names for that group. If anything, you should want to use them less.

Sure, we do have to be careful about the language we use. But that's just it- we use language- and in recognizing this, we also recognize that we have the capacity to manipulate and control it in a different way, one that's for the better. There's a wonderful blog post about reclamation of language and social justice that explains it a lot better than I can:

http://brilliantmindbrokenbody.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/social-justice-reclaiming-language/

Reclaimatory language is interesting in part because it is deliberately taking an offensive word and claiming it, giving it a new definition.

The first time I remember seeing this was when a friend of mine proudly proclaimed she was a bitch "“ a Babe In Total Control of Herself. I didn't get it at the time, really. I think we all took it as a titilating excuse to say a naughty word and revel in the fact that we were female and believed ourselves strong because of that. I guess I should amend that "“ I didn't get it on the high theoretical plane, but on the easier to understand plane of our emotions, I understood. We made it our word, a word about how we were cool, hip, smart, and daring.

You hear this sense of reclaiming language in other situations. People who are black calling each other "˜nigga'. Women re-defining bitch to suit their meaning, a la Meredith Brook's song titled "˜Bitch'. People with disabilities calling themselves "˜crips' and talking about "˜crip theory'.

So what is it, this reclaimation?

It's owning the word that gets thrown at you as a slur. Taking it in and re-making it into your own self-image. Replacing the negative connotations that the original speaker may have intended with meanings that actually fit you.

It can come off as a slap in the face, offensive and harsh, but that's part of the intent. It's to alert the hearer that you aren't defined by the way someone else means that word. You refuse to be defined by "˜them'. It also serves to make people re-think their internalized definitions to words. If you think a cripple is someone who is so disabled they can't do anything, and meet someone who proudly calls herself a crip"¦and works a fulltime job, or takes care of her household, or so on"¦you have to re-think what a cripple is.

So we change the language. Yes, there will still be bigoted people who buy into the older meaning"¦but we can change that meaning in people whose thinking is more flexible. And we can change that meaning in ourselves.

When we say 'claim', it doesn't really mean the claim or the right to oppress. The point isn't necessarily our right to superficially USE the word, but our right to re-appropriate the language into a point of pride and positivity.
Reclamation is a really fascinating topic. I think you'd find it really interesting.

Also for the record, I never said everyone in the "QUILTBAG" group. I said the only term people should be using right now to describe gay people as a whole if they want to help is "gay people." In the words of my friend Edward "we need to make this an MLK style fight for equality. And step away from the Malcom X stuff." And I honestly couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh, maybe I misunderstood you, but I've found that usually people use 'gay' as an umbrella term for all non-heteronormative gender/sexual identities, and I thought that's how you were using it. That and in the context of the song here, Gaga seems to be trying to include all people (though IMO, she failed miserably LOL).

 

[Username]

No we shouldn't have to prove we're "normal" enough for them. But we do. And we are normal people. The fact of the matter is most gay people are just normal people who aren't all crazy. Most gay men aren't overly effeminate and most lesbians aren't overly butch. On a day to day basis, gay men are not prostitutes and whores like they dress up as in pride parades and that just leads the main opposition to us getting equal rights (the religious right) to say we shouldn't have the rights we deserve because we're perverts who will and want to corrupt society with our perverted ways. If we take away the evidence they have to support this idiotic nonsense, we get closer to getting the rights we deserve. We should be celebrating the normalcy of being gay in pride parades... not the differences. I mean on the one hand we keep saying "we deserve these rights because we're people, just like you (straight people)" and then on the other hand our pride parades and rallies are all "look at how different we are." We celebrate the differences rather than the similarities and therefore bring them into view more than the similarities.

I could write a book on this... it pisses me off to no end.

The religious are gonna think gay people are perverts even if there are no parades or drag queens..I need to stop right there before i write something about Christianity that's gonna get me banned for sure..
I just don't agree with you.

 

[zobothehobo]

The religious are gonna think gay people are perverts even if there are no parades or drag queens..I need to stop right there before i write something about Christianity that's gonna get me banned for sure..
I just don't agree with you.

The extreme religious people are going to believe what they want to sure... but the idiots (and yes I use that word knowing it's harsh) who are lead by their fear of difference are the ones the extreme religious right are getting to right now. They're the ones who will make a difference in this fight and they're the people we need to be "convincing." We need to be celebrating our similarities so that the people who are lead by their fear of difference will see we're not different and will turn down the extreme religious right's illogical arguments as just that, illogical.

And it's ok you don't agree with me. I don't agree with you and I feel very strongly about this. I know that a lot of people don't see my point and I've been called homophobic although I'm an openly gay person myself for my views on the subject. I just think we need to start thinking logically here about what is the best strategy to go about this fight for equal rights and treatment.

 

[Username]

The extreme religious people are going to believe what they want to sure... but the idiots (and yes I use that word knowing it's harsh) who are lead by their fear of difference are the ones the extreme religious right are getting to right now. They're the ones who will make a difference in this fight and they're the people we need to be "convincing." We need to be celebrating our similarities so that the people who are lead by their fear of difference will see we're not different and will turn down the extreme religious right's illogical arguments as just that, illogical.

And it's ok you don't agree with me. I don't agree with you and I feel very strongly about this. I know that a lot of people don't see my point and I've been called homophobic although I'm an openly gay person myself for my views on the subject. I just think we need to start thinking logically here about what is the best strategy to go about this fight for equal rights and treatment.

I actually agree that it's probably the smartest thing for gay people to do now, but I don't think it's the ideal approach in the long run, instead of trying to show how everybody's the same to people who are afraid of what's different I think we should focus on, I hate using this word but in lack of a better one, teaching them that diversity is awesome. They're the ones that needs to change, if we keep enabling their think it's just a huge step back IMO.

 

[Angelic Slayer]

I listened to the song and to be honest it's just not my style of music. She has had some catchy singles and I can respect that she has AMAZING pipes (as well as the part she played in raising awareness to DADT), but I find her lyrics to be a little tasteless sometimes and this is another song that I haven't been turned on to. It sounds a little 80s disco-esque to me, and unlike songs like "Wonderful" or "Pokerface" it doesn't really showcase her talent as much as I wish she would.

No disrespect to her or her fans of course, I love some of her music. Just the latest song really isn't my cuppa tea! :silly: