Brexit and Boris

[TriBel]

The DM has its knives out for Long-Bailey and BTL the comments on Rayner were horrific. She "had no shame" for celebrating being a gran at 37. She left school at 16 and was "uneducated". TBH, the DM frightens me. If it's the popular voice, chances are we'll never get a progressive government.

It sounds like a number of you will be posting to the "I'll Get Over It" thread once Brexit goes ahead.

No...I won't.

 

[katmobile]

1.4 million tiny ? 1 is tiny but still a majority

It's 55 per cent verses forty five per cent of the people who could and did vote. That's still hardly the overwhelming mandate for Brexit it's being presented as politically. As most of the major UK cities voted to Remain as did the majority of people in Scotland. As a the population of a populous country a million is not that much.

 

[Mr Trick]

I think most people are past Brexit. That's why we're discussing who the next Labour leader should be. A lot of people who voted for Boris at the Election probably did so because of wanting to get Brexit done. You take Brexit out of the picture then I doubt he would have got nearly as much support.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Some issue that will happen in one country and cause the economy of the EU to fall like dominoes across all the countries? And since all wars are economic in origin, out of Europe's economic rubble, will there be more wars? Britain's parachute may have opened just in time.

They had the PIGS situation a few years ago with the euro. The EU are not happy with the UK for leaving, they're going to make things as difficult as possible to deter others from getting the same idea.

 

[TriBel]

@Ethan Reigns The Treaty of Rome was signed on March 25, 1957 so we're coming up to the 63rd anniversary of the EU (in its various forms). This is the longest period of peace in Europe for over 2000 years (integrated members). The EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 - Pax Europaea.

 

[Mr Trick]

They had the PIGS situation a few years ago with the euro. The EU are not happy with the UK for leaving, they're going to make things as difficult as possible to deter others from getting the same idea.

I think we should worry about the State of our country and how bad it could get with such a hardline Brexit. I think Europe will have the last laugh on this one. They no longer want us to stay in. If they did then why did they sign off on two different deals?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I am an electronics engineer by profession which means, left to my own devices, I try to conduct stability analyses. I would hope @TriBel is right and there would be no more war in Europe. And so far, Europe is quite prosperous as a whole even with the PIIGS issues from a few years back (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain were all underperforming and threatening to collapse the whole thing). But no one suspected the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand would lead to WWI and the Treaty of Versailles would lead to WWII and no one suspects that there is anything in the economy that could lead to economic disaster which would bring up the spectre of military action. The future will not necessarily be like the recent past for the EU. Stability is not guaranteed.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think we should worry about the State of our country and how bad it could get with such a hardline Brexit. I think Europe will have the last laugh on this one. They no longer want us to stay in. If they did then why did they sign off on two different deals?

Europe don't want a no deal Brexit which is why it needs to remain on the table to force them to compromise. At the minute there is murmurings that Merkal and Macron might break rank because Boris is keeping up the pressure of not extending the transition period beyond the end of the year.

 

[TriBel]

They had the PIGS situation a few years ago with the euro. The EU are not happy with the UK for leaving, they're going to make things as difficult as possible to deter others from getting the same idea.

I honestly don't see where the EU has been particularly difficult. Their red-lines - the Four Freedoms - were clear from the start. It was the UK who claimed leaving would be easy. Gove: "The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want". He failed to mention the cards were all jokers (and the jokers expected to have their cake and eat it). I've got far more respect for people like Tusk and Barnier than any of the past or present Tory party.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

How you feel about Megxit? 😏

 

[TriBel]

How you feel about Megxit? 😏

I think the racist English tabloids have made her life a misery. Personally, I don't have much time for, or interest in, the Royals but, in this case, I wish her well. TBH, if I was younger or had more money I'd go.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

How you feel about Megxit? 😏

I think it's very much a case of "what Meghan wants, Meghan gets". I've not seen the tabloids target her because of her race, but because of her attitude. It was all "me, me, me". She has certainly damaged Harry's popularity.

 

[TriBel]

@HowiMetdaSlayer Seems to me that the tabloids preferred Harry when he was dancing around nude or dressed as a Nazi Soldier. They want a "playboy Prince" - not a guy with a social conscience. I've posted this elsewhere but it's worth repeating.

As The Guardian say in this article (and The Guardian is the most trusted quality paper in the UK according to industry reports), the difference between their treatment of Kate and the treatment of Meghan is "absolutely chilling". Simply by defying the tabloids, Meghan has already beaten them | Zoe Williams

In the tabloids, the coverage ATL and the comments BTL have been vile. Why wouldn't Harry leave when he's confronted with such vitriol - particularly given the part the press played in his mother's death. As I implied, I couldn't give a fig if all of the Royals left the UK tomorrow but no-one should be subject to this claptrap.

 

[Mr Trick]

@TriBel Yes! Just the points I was going to make. Its time people in this country wake up to the damaging effects of such media and their coverage.

 

[Altoz]

Mixed Member Proportional representation has been New Zealand's electoral system since we had two referenda on the subject in 1992-3. Okay, originally I thought the Single Transferable Vote was a better electoral system (and it did come second in 1992- FPP came third). However, our second electoral reform referendum was between MMP and FPP. Since 1996, we've had eight elections with that as our preferred electoral system. At present, we have five parties in our 120 seat Parliament- Labour, National (our Tories), ACT (libertarians), the Greens and New Zealand First (populiat and Keynesian when it comes to economics). National has formed four coalition governments with it in charge, as has Labour, and our current coalition is Labour/New Zealand First. The Nats don't like it because they don't have a viable satellite party of their own (and governed with a retinue of microparties -2008-2017). New Zealand First said it'd potentially go both ways, but the problem is that it abhors the Nats neoliberal economic policies. The next governing coalition will probably be Labour/Green. Overall, I think MMP has worked quite well, although NZ also definitely needs a written constitution like Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

[katmobile]

@TriBel Yes! Just the points I was going to make. Its time people in this country wake up to the damaging effects of such media and their coverage.

Sadly it's true of a lot of countries. I once on holiday spent some time comparing notes about Rupert Murdoch with an Aussie - he's not the sole reason the press is garbage in Oz, the UK and the USA (he doesn't own that toxic rag the Daily Mail - which is own as the Fail or the Heil because it literally supported Hitler in the 30s) but he's certainly a rather large factor.

 

[Honoria Dedlock]

@HowiMetdaSlayer Seems to me that the tabloids preferred Harry when he was dancing around nude or dressed as a Nazi Soldier. They want a "playboy Prince" - not a guy with a social conscience. I've posted this elsewhere but it's worth repeating.

As The Guardian say in this article (and The Guardian is the most trusted quality paper in the UK according to industry reports), the difference between their treatment of Kate and the treatment of Meghan is "absolutely chilling". Simply by defying the tabloids, Meghan has already beaten them | Zoe Williams

In the tabloids, the coverage ATL and the comments BTL have been vile. Why wouldn't Harry leave when he's confronted with such vitriol - particularly given the part the press played in his mother's death. As I implied, I couldn't give a fig if all of the Royals left the UK tomorrow but no-one should be subject to this claptrap.

I was going to argue you could find egregious tabloid reports on both women, but after some googling, the worst headline I could find about kate was that her husband has cheated on her with a mutual friend...another about a 'trial separation' with her husband and a picture of her crying. Meghan's headlines are very round-about and weird typical of daily mail.

Misogyny plays a huge role in all of this, probably the biggest. The media literally killed Diane, and Britney Spears to this day is mentally unwell due to her interactions with paparazzi.

Meghan has been treated pretty lousily just by virtue of being constantly topical, but unfortunately it's par the course for women. I still remember my jaw dropping when i saw a newspaper detailing all these secret cancer surgeries Angelina Jolie had...another article going on about how Madonna had been infected with HIV. I really think they write whatever the hell will sell, which extends responsibility to the public and the kinds of news they choose to consume.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Meghan Markle was always going to be trouble, as one would expect an opinionated 40 year old divorced American actresses with estranged families would be prone to be, even more so when marrying the son of the next king. Say what you will about Kate, the girl knew what she was getting into by the time she married William, as opposed to Megan, who seemed to think she was marrying a rich celebrity, not a well paid civil servant. I don't begrudge her for that, most of the boys' girlfriends have gone on to marry very rich men, but, it's incompatible with the current concept of monarchy. My gripe is that the story is breaking when all eyes should be on 1. Brexit, which is the most consequencial act of the UK in this decade, if not longer, and 2. Borris's agenda, which is important, and should be a subject of debate. Or, if purely royal news, the House of Windsor doing what ever it can to reduce personal Charles unpopularity/ detoxifying Andrew's daughters so they can replace Anne and Edward until George and his siblings are of age.

 

[Mr Trick]

Meghan Markle was always going to be trouble, as one would expect an opinionated 40 year old divorced American actresses with estranged families would be prone to be, even more so when marrying the son of the next king. Say what you will about Kate, the girl knew what she was getting into by the time she married William, as opposed to Megan, who seemed to think she was marrying a rich celebrity, not a well paid civil servant. I don't begrudge her for that, most of the boys' girlfriends have gone on to marry very rich men, but, it's incompatible with the current concept of monarchy. My gripe is that the story is breaking when all eyes should be on 1. Brexit, which is the most consequencial act of the UK in this decade, if not longer, and 2. Borris's agenda, which is important, and should be a subject of debate. Or, if purely royal news, the House of Windsor doing what ever it can to reduce personal Charles unpopularity/ detoxifying Andrew's daughters so they can replace Anne and Edward until George and his siblings are of age.

You have a point about this overriding more important news. I don't doubt that is the tactic of such tabloids rather than to cover Brexit in which case they might have to face up to some of stuff Boris is about to put this country through.

Disagree on your first point. Maybe Meghan was a bit naive. But that doesn't excuse racism or the abuse she has gotten. If her and Harry want to leave the Royal Family and live independent lives they should be free to do so. As has been proven the coverage of her and Kate has been totally different. Even over something as simple as picking out flowers!

 

[TriBel]

I have to be honest, when I use the word "tabloid" it's usually as a synonym for The Daily Mail. I don't access any other tabloid and I tend to get my news from The Guardian (they keep their royal coverage to a minimum).

I hate that E. Holmes used the word "uppity" to describe her. Even I knew the history behind the term. "This term has historically been used in America to describe black people who were considered to be acting above "their place", and is considered by some to have racist connotations when applied to black people and other minorities; sometimes, arrogant or presumptuous, invoking the same idea, are used as codewords for it.

My gripe is that the story is breaking when all eyes should be on 1. Brexit, which is the most consequencial act of the UK in this decade, if not longer,

Agree. My feeling is it's the worst crisis since Suez - but I would say that. Boris/Cummings et al. are almost as good at spotting squirrels as the PM is at stealing phones and hiding in fridges. Sigh...don't get me started.