Brexit and Boris

[katmobile]

Brexit...... please get it done

I'm of the opposite unpopular opinion it shouldn't be happening. There should have been a clearer majority and there was a lot of corruption and misinformation from the Leave camp.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I'm of the opposite unpopular opinion it shouldn't be happening. There should have been a clearer majority and there was a lot of corruption and misinformation from the Leave camp.

Whereas the remain side have kept trying to use dirty tricks to stop the will of the people such as always running to the Scottish courts because the English ones don't give the verdict they want. A majority is a majority, the people voted to leave and that should've been respected from the start. The election results show how people feel about Brexit, at least with Boris in charge, things will now get done.

 

[katmobile]

Whereas the remain side have kept trying to use dirty tricks to stop the will of the people such as always running to the Scottish courts because the English ones don't give the verdict they want. A majority is a majority, the people voted to leave and that should've been respected from the start. The election results show how people feel about Brexit, at least with Boris in charge, things will now get done.

A slender majority of people who bothered to vote. I'm sorry but you may find the so called scare tactics were right. Sadly it won't be just you and those who voted for it that suffer.

What you see is what you get you made your bed better lie in it. You choose your leaders and place your trust. The public gets want the public wants but I want nothing that society's got. I'm going underground.

Probably best to agree to disagree on that one and hope there isn't no deal and we're not utterly trousered.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

A slender majority of people who bothered to vote. I'm sorry but you may find the so called scare tactics were right. Sadly it won't be just you and those who voted for it that suffer.

What you see is what you get you made your bed better lie in it. You choose your leaders and place your trust. The public gets want the public wants but I want nothing that society's got. I'm going underground.

Probably best to agree to disagree on that one and hope there isn't no deal and we're not utterly trousered.

Clearly the majority of people trust Boris given the result of the election. If people can't be bothered to vote then that's on them, the fact still remains that of the people that voted in the referendum, the majority voted for Brexit. The remoaners just have to suck it up and deal with it.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

How many people in England voted and how many people voted for Boris. No doubt Deadly Duo has the figures as he knows that the majority of voters trust Boris.

 

[TriBel]

How many people in England voted and how many people voted for Boris. No doubt Deadly Duo has the figures as he knows that the majority of voters trust Boris.

I think if you combine the Remain/Second Referendum Parties, the Remain vote is larger than the Leave vote. FPTP makes a mockery of the numbers. We need PR.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

How many people in England voted and how many people voted for Boris. No doubt Deadly Duo has the figures as he knows that the majority of voters trust Boris.

The majority of voters in the individual constituencies voted conservative, even some of the Labour "Heartlands" voted conservative. Corbyn screwed up by siting on the fence about Brexit, Swinson screwed up by being too gung ho on revoking article 50 without a second referendum.

Boris had to win the election in order to honour the result of the EU referendum. You can't give people a vote then just ignore the result because it wasn't the result you wanted.

I think if you combine the Remain/Second Referendum Parties, the Remain vote is larger than the Leave vote. FPTP makes a mockery of the numbers. We need PR.

Of course combining the results of two or more parties is going to give a larger number than a singular party.

That's like saying Spike is the oldest scooby at 120 years old but if you combine the ages of the other scoobies then Spike's age is no longer the larger number.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Of course combining the results of two or more parties is going to give a larger number than a singular party.

That's like saying Spike is the oldest scooby at 120 years old but if you combine the ages of the other scoobies then Spike's age is no longer the larger number.

If Britain had proportional representation, the remain parties could form a majority government. I don't get your Spike analogy. The Scoobies aren't run by seniority.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

If Britain had proportional representation, the remain parties could form a majority government. I don't get your Spike analogy. The Scoobies aren't run by seniority.

The point I was trying to make is that combining the numbers of several groups is going to give a larger total than that of a singular group eg combining the ages of all the scoobies will give a larger number in comparison to Spike's age even though Spike by himself has the larger number compared to the rest of the scoobies by themselves.

Combining the total of the "remain" parties is going to give a bigger number than that of the conservatives because your comparing a combined score of multiple groups to that of a singular group. Each constituency had a vote, whoever won the most votes became MP of that constituency. The conservatives got the most votes in various constituencies therefore they won the election.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Combining the total of the "remain" parties is going to give a bigger number than that of the conservatives because your comparing a combined score of multiple groups to that of a singular group. Each constituency had a vote, whoever won the most votes became MP of that constituency. The conservatives got the most votes in various constituencies therefore they won the election.

But if UK switched to a proportional system, the remain parties would be free to combine their scores ... or rather, their "scores" would determine their number of seats, and the remain parties would have the majority. Such a government would have a true national majority at their back.

It is only four years since the last coalition government.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

DeadlyDuo,
that is what happens here if you make statements that can prove you wrong they will. You are like D. Trump, you can make all the excuse you want, it don't change that you are wrong. He once said he didn't care about the impeachment and said he would listen to it.

By the way when did Spike become one of the Scooby's? I'm not saying he didn't cos someone will prove me wrong, so I'll let you drop yourself innit!

And will Europe accept Boris is a good guy or make England see him as a dick? ( I don't think I mean a private eye)

 

[Hunga Munga]

Boris Johnson is a CIA lapdog . Find it pretty funny that a British secret Military contractor has already been sold to the USA., on his first day 😀 .

Brexit is happening , no point dwelling on the details now . To be honest , I was a devout Remainer , but the years of unrest is destabilizing British society . So get it done .

I suspect as a nation , we'll go back to our warmongering ways , scooping up assets in the developing world and giving out meals to prove how noble we are . I just don't see Britain being willing to slip into global insignificance . We aint got the numbers to win trade wars , but actual wars , we're pretty good at . 🙁

 

[Mr Trick]

I have no problem with getting on with Brexit. But it should be done in a way which protects jobs and is a compromise to bring the country together. But Boris doesn't seem interested in that. He's pushing for the Hardest form of Brexit possible. The other problem is he's a liar. He's already flipped from saying he had a deal ready to go to then threatening No Deal (no one voted for that). He's talking like his deal passing in January is the end of Brexit. In reality it will go on for years to come. Also we're basically heading for No Deal. If we don't secure a trading deal by the end of next year (highly unlikely) then we leave on No Deal. He's not being honest with the voters about that either.

As for the Election. It reminded me of the US 2016 Election. It was more about Labour and Corbyn losing than Boris and the Tories winning. Labour have to learn from their mistakes.

 

[Hunga Munga]

In my opinion Corbyn had no intention of winning this election . His campaign was barely credible . For whatever reason , he let this happen . I think Brexit is considered a political Poison Chalice to whoever drinks from it .

 

[Mr Trick]

In my opinion Corbyn had no intention of winning this election . His campaign was barely credible . For whatever reason , he let this happen . I think Brexit is considered a political Poison Chalice to whoever drinks from it .

I agree about Corbyn. I think someone like Lisa Nardy a more working class and progressive candidate would be ideal for Labour. They need to move in a fresh direction.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

But if UK switched to a proportional system, the remain parties would be free to combine their scores ... or rather, their "scores" would determine their number of seats, and the remain parties would have the majority. Such a government would have a true national majority at their back.

So what your saying is that rather than the person who garnered the most votes in their constituency becoming the MP, it should be the second and third place who less people voted for who get the prize because they decided to "combine" their score rather than win outright by themselves? That doesn't seem very democratic.

As I recall, the last coalition government came about because no party had enough to form a majority and it was a hung parliament. The tories joined up with the lib dems to get a majority however the tories did have the most seats out of all the parties, just not enough to form a majority.

DeadlyDuo,
that is what happens here if you make statements that can prove you wrong they will. You are like D. Trump, you can make all the excuse you want, it don't change that you are wrong. He once said he didn't care about the impeachment and said he would listen to it.

By the way when did Spike become one of the Scooby's? I'm not saying he didn't cos someone will prove me wrong, so I'll let you drop yourself innit!

And will Europe accept Boris is a good guy or make England see him as a dick? ( I don't think I mean a private eye)

@ILLYRIAN

1. The tories received the most votes in constituencies which won them the constituencies. I don't need to provide figures because the fact that winning a constituency shows that the tory candidate received the most votes of that constituency.

2. @TriBel has posted some figures and it clearly shows that the conservative party received the most votes out of all the parties. Losing parties combining scores should not be allowed otherwise you get a party in power that nobody asked for eg a concern over the labour party getting in was that they would form a coalition with the SNP and then the SNP would be the puppet masters. Nobody south of Scotland would've voted for the SNP.

3. Spike was a member of the scoobies. He wasn't one of the core 4 but neither were Anya or Tara yet they all still count as scoobies.

4. The EU see Boris as a type of boogeyman. They've been using Britain as a cash cow and now it looks like that well is drying up. The EU were always going to make Brexit difficult because they don't want other member countries getting the same idea and leaving. They're trying to make an example of us "see this is what happens when you try to leave".

5. I am in no way like Donald Trump and think you're being overdramatic with the comparison.

6. Whilst it's true that it could be a "best of a bad bunch" situation which is what I think @Mr Trick is saying below, the point is that people trust Boris a lot more than they trust Corbyn.

I have no problem with getting on with Brexit. But it should be done in a way which protects jobs and is a compromise to bring the country together. But Boris doesn't seem interested in that. He's pushing for the Hardest form of Brexit possible. The other problem is he's a liar. He's already flipped from saying he had a deal ready to go to then threatening No Deal (no one voted for that). He's talking like his deal passing in January is the end of Brexit. In reality it will go on for years to come. Also we're basically heading for No Deal. If we don't secure a trading deal by the end of next year (highly unlikely) then we leave on No Deal. He's not being honest with the voters about that either.

As for the Election. It reminded me of the US 2016 Election. It was more about Labour and Corbyn losing than Boris and the Tories winning. Labour have to learn from their mistakes.

No deal has to be on the table if you want a good deal. If you refuse to leave without a deal, you either a) remain or b) get offered a crap deal that you either have to accept or choose to remain. Taking no deal off the table hands all the power cards to the EU.

Consider this: Initially the EU said they weren't going to reopen negotiating the withdrawal agreement. Boris said we'll leave anyway "come what may", the EU suddenly decide they can reopen negotiating the withdrawal agreement. If it wasn't for the remoaners trying to stab Boris in the back at every opportunity eg passing the Benn act or as it's more commonly known the "surrender bill" and forcing Boris to extend BY LAW (not to mention the remoaners constantly running to the scottish courts) then Brexit would've been underway a few months ago.

No deal isn't the preferred option but it has to be an option.

In my opinion Corbyn had no intention of winning this election . His campaign was barely credible . For whatever reason , he let this happen . I think Brexit is considered a political Poison Chalice to whoever drinks from it .

Corbyn's had a face like thunder since the election so it's not like he intended to lose. His sitting on the fence over Brexit plus the threat over the SNP forming a partnership with labour and Corbyn himself are what turned people away from labour.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

So what your saying is that rather than the person who garnered the most votes in their constituency becoming the MP, it should be the second and third place who less people voted for who get the prize because they decided to "combine" their score rather than win outright by themselves? That doesn't seem very democratic.

No, that is not how proportional representation works. That would still be a first-past-the-post system.

If the UK switched to a proportional system, you would likely dramatically cut down the number of constituencies. Each constituency would be given a number of seats, based on its population relative to other constituencies. If the Tories got 40 % of the votes in a constituency, they would get 40 % of the seats.

As it is now, the Tories can get 40 % of the votes in a constituency and still win its only seat. That means that 60 % of the votes go down the trash. It should be no wonder that the turn out is so low, when many people know that there is no possibility that the party they support will win. In a proportional system, their votes will still matter.

Now, if the UK did have a proportional system, the other parties could form a coalition and kick the Tories out of power. It wouldn't be unfair. They would have more seats, but more importantly, I think, they would have the support of a larger part of the voters.

It is the same issue in the US. The party that wins the state gets all the seats. More Americans voted for Clinton, but Trump still won. If you are a democrat in a red state or a republican in a blue state, you don't matter.

 

[Mr Trick]

So what your saying is that rather than the person who garnered the most votes in their constituency becoming the MP, it should be the second and third place who less people voted for who get the prize because they decided to "combine" their score rather than win outright by themselves? That doesn't seem very democratic.

As I recall, the last coalition government came about because no party had enough to form a majority and it was a hung parliament. The tories joined up with the lib dems to get a majority however the tories did have the most seats out of all the parties, just not enough to form a majority.



@ILLYRIAN

1. The tories received the most votes in constituencies which won them the constituencies. I don't need to provide figures because the fact that winning a constituency shows that the tory candidate received the most votes of that constituency.

2. @TriBel has posted some figures and it clearly shows that the conservative party received the most votes out of all the parties. Losing parties combining scores should not be allowed otherwise you get a party in power that nobody asked for eg a concern over the labour party getting in was that they would form a coalition with the SNP and then the SNP would be the puppet masters. Nobody south of Scotland would've voted for the SNP.

3. Spike was a member of the scoobies. He wasn't one of the core 4 but neither were Anya or Tara yet they all still count as scoobies.

4. The EU see Boris as a type of boogeyman. They've been using Britain as a cash cow and now it looks like that well is drying up. The EU were always going to make Brexit difficult because they don't want other member countries getting the same idea and leaving. They're trying to make an example of us "see this is what happens when you try to leave".

5. I am in no way like Donald Trump and think you're being overdramatic with the comparison.

6. Whilst it's true that it could be a "best of a bad bunch" situation which is what I think @Mr Trick is saying below, the point is that people trust Boris a lot more than they trust Corbyn.



No deal has to be on the table if you want a good deal. If you refuse to leave without a deal, you either a) remain or b) get offered a crap deal that you either have to accept or choose to remain. Taking no deal off the table hands all the power cards to the EU.

Consider this: Initially the EU said they weren't going to reopen negotiating the withdrawal agreement. Boris said we'll leave anyway "come what may", the EU suddenly decide they can reopen negotiating the withdrawal agreement. If it wasn't for the remoaners trying to stab Boris in the back at every opportunity eg passing the Benn act or as it's more commonly known the "surrender bill" and forcing Boris to extend BY LAW (not to mention the remoaners constantly running to the scottish courts) then Brexit would've been underway a few months ago.

No deal isn't the preferred option but it has to be an option.



Corbyn's had a face like thunder since the election so it's not like he intended to lose. His sitting on the fence over Brexit plus the threat over the SNP forming a partnership with labour and Corbyn himself are what turned people away from labour.

I think name calling, like referring to people who disagree with your view point remoaners is negative and does nothing to bring the country together. The country has been divided so why shouldn't MP's? Most of the MP's were acting in good faith. Its not a case of trying to stop Brexit. Its a case of trying to find the best possible deal for everyone. The deal we now have isn't that deal. It strips away all sorts of basic human rights and will not protect jobs.

I don't think leaving No Deal on the table makes any difference. The European Union want shot of us at this point anyway. Besides this isn't a game.

 

[katmobile]

Clearly the majority of people trust Boris given the result of the election. If people can't be bothered to vote then that's on them, the fact still remains that of the people that voted in the referendum, the majority voted for Brexit. The remoaners just have to suck it up and deal with it.

Slender majority in case of Brexit - very slender size O. Yeah I don't have a choice but to 'suck it up and deal with it' but I'm not going to do so meekly or in silence. If nothing we do matters all that matters is what we do - I'm not going to change my mind just because others don't agree with me.

 

[katmobile]

I think name calling, like referring to people who disagree with your view point remoaners is negative and does nothing to bring the country together. The country has been divided so why shouldn't MP's? Most of the MP's were acting in good faith. Its not a case of trying to stop Brexit. Its a case of trying to find the best possible deal for everyone. The deal we now have isn't that deal. It strips away all sorts of basic human rights and will not protect jobs.

I don't think leaving No Deal on the table makes any difference. The European Union want shot of us at this point anyway. Besides this isn't a game.

If we have a no deal we are effed - we face medicine shortages and food shortages and the situation in Ireland going back to the 80s. We DO NOT want that.