BtVS: a Better Show than Angel?

[Willow-Tree]

Honestly, it changes daily. Though I usually pick Buffy as the better show in the end.

 

[Crashing Doors]

Isn't it kind of hard to say which is better though? Which one is more enjoyable varies for me every time I watch it (when I watch Angel, I like it more; when I watch Buffy, I like it more). When I go without watching either for a little while--which is never that long--I typically pick Buffy as the more enjoyable show.

Both have their cons, though. A lot of the Buffy stories didn't really work out too well, even though they sound good on paper. Those episode have good character moments and what not, and they don't overshadow the series as a whole... but they are present. Some of the acting is less than stellar: Amber Benson is not one of the best actresses. Some of the demons are pretty cheesy. The pros though, to counter the cons, are that the story/themes/emotions usually make up for when thhe acting isn't perfect or the demons look stupid. Similar things can be said about Angel, actually; the only difference being that AtS is a bit more "grown-up" for its entire run. The acting is more solid than Buffy (not that Buffy acting is bad per se; I just think AtS acting is a bit better).

I tend to stick with Buffy though most of the time; it's overall a more fun show and I've been able to relate to it more than I have with AtS. (Although even as I'm saying this, I feel almost guilty for not saying Angel.)

 

[Blackloliita]

I prefer Angel more than Buffy. Angel is darker and has more humor. The main character isn't so melodramatic as Buffy.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

Angel is a good show, but I find Buffy fantastic is almost every way. I look forward to every episode I watch (or almost every episode) for its own sake. I like all the arcs, excepting the Riley and Kennedy romances, and the show has brought me to sobbing on a number of occasions. With Angel, I get bored. I dislike many of the arcs and it seems as if I have to endure individual episodes to get to the ones I like. I also think I can relate more to an empowered woman than a broody, guilt-ridden man. Not to say I dislike Angel as a character, but I simply can't relate.

As to Angel being a more "grown-up" show, I disagree. I think it's darker and less fun, but that doesn't necessarily mean grown up. I think it lacks the emotional intensity of Buffy and the in-depth characters. I see Buffy as a more mature show because its demons seem to be more metaphor than Angel's. With Angel, I feel like things are largely face-value while almost all supernatural things are representative.

In short, Angel is often times something I have to work at to watch, while I look forward to the times when I watch Buffy. I like the story, characters, and message better.

 

[Crashing Doors]

I think Angel can be as fun as Buffy; there are plenty of episodes that are (Guise Will Be Guise, the Pylea arc, Smile Time, Spin the Bottle, etc). But the darker episodes are what makes it more "grown up" for me. I don't think that Buffy is immature, I just think Angel deals with things from more of an adult perspective--ie: they (meaning Angel, Wes, Gunn, Fred, etc) have been out of high school a lot longer than Buffy and have different things they're dealing with compared to the changes that Buffy and co have to deal with. They're both mature shows, just in different ways.

Angel is pretty intense though, and fairly deep... Like when Fred figures out who sent her to Pylea and how she reacts to that; Gunn realizing how his actions led to Fred/Illyria; Wes's actions in season 3 and his character shift in season 4; these are all very difficult moments for the characters that force them to go through some kind of development and change the way they see the world. That's what the show is about, at least in part. Buffy deals with the same things, but it's a little more gut-wrenching and depressing in Angel. Whether that makes it better, more enjoyable, I don't know. But, I do think it's at least as intimate and intense as Buffy.

I still like Buffy better, by the way. I just love me some Angel too and hate to see it fall by the wayside.

 

[Mozzymandias]

Up until very recently I'd have said Buffy. It's an amazing show and what first got me into the Buffyverse. I think however that the show is very teen orientated, and whilst its entirely possible to love the show outside of it's target audience I think you got to say its aimed at teens. Angel however I believe is aimed at a slightly higher age range which I feel I'm probably entering right now. The last time I ran through Angel I had a greater appreciation for many more of the episodes than in previous run throughs whereas with Buffy I found myself liking more episodes less. Sweetescape said something about random episodes in Buffy that don't contribute anything to the storyline at all. I completely get that, they're some episodes in there that are just filler and it's complete utter garbage, Go Fish, The Doublemeat Palace etc. Most of these Angel episodes that are the same kind of filler are usually used to reveal more of Angel/Angelus' past and fit into the season storyline. It's hard to believe that Buffy has a big bad on the loose but is left alone for a day/s to fight a minor evil that has come to party at The Hellmouth without disturbance. Both are great shows that I will always love without a doubt in my heart. I just feel as I'm maturing I have gained a different level of appreciation for Angel.

 

[Crashing Doors]

I like some of those so called "filler" episodes though. It's nice to be able to step back from the big (sometimes depressing) story lines and get your breath, so to speak. "Doublemeat Palace" is one of my favorite episodes of the entire run of the series due to the break it gives us from the really heavy episodes--"Smashed", "Wrecked" and "Gone" were so freaking depressing! It was nice to have something like DMP right after that little trilogy of despair.

Otherwise I agree with you. And even though Buffy may be a little more teen oriented--at least it was in the first few years--I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a bad thing. I watch those episodes, love them even though I'm 4 years out of HS, and I think I've gained a lot by watching them. They really help to put things into perspective, and I've been able to move on with certain things due to the messages in those episodes.

It's funny though, the first time I watched both shows, I loved Buffy bundles more than Angel. I spoke to my professor about it (ie: the person who got me into the Jossverse) and she told me about how she and her husband liked AtS more... it almost took the wind out of me, I felt kind of sad when she told me that. She must have sensed it too, due to her back-peddling and saying "Oh, but we still love us some Buffy".

 

[ukkid09]

I think Angel can be as fun as Buffy; there are plenty of episodes that are (Guise Will Be Guise, the Pylea arc, Smile Time, Spin the Bottle, etc). But the darker episodes are what makes it more "grown up" for me. I don't think that Buffy is immature, I just think Angel deals with things from more of an adult perspective--IE: they (meaning Angel, Wes, Gunny, Fred, etc) have been out of high school a lot longer than Buffy and have different things they're dealing with compared to the changes that Buffy and co have to deal with. They're both mature shows, just in different ways.

Angel is pretty intense though, and fairly deep... Like when Fred figures out who sent her to Pyle and how she reacts to that; Gunny realizing how his actions led to Fred/Ilario; Wis's actions in season 3 and his character shift in season 4; these are all very difficult moments for the characters that force them to go through some kind of development and change the way they see the world. That's what the show is about, at least in part. Buffy deals with the same things, but it's a little more gut-wrenching and depressing in Angel. Whether that makes it better, more enjoyable, I don't know. But, I do think it's at least as intimate and intense as Buffy.

I still like Buffy better, by the way. I just love me some Angel too and hate to see it fall by the wayside.

think you miss the point with Buffy after season three. In season five, Buffy loses her mum, she's a 20 year old. That is the ultimate tragedy for a young person. In addition, she came back 'broken' from the dead. These things together will affect anybody, it would be really unusual if she was the happy go lucky teen she was in the first three seasons. Her 'friends' also ripped her out of 'heaven', there seems to be unvoiced resentment about this for them. Thats why i think Buffy deals with immaturity much better then angel..I don't think angel deals with issues as such. Just by products of a story instead of the focus..
I love buffy more thats the reason because you can relate to her, and her life..Then Angel..Angel going threw redemption is a good thing but i think its kind of common to see people going threw the same position ,even my next door neighbours going threw it lol..
The Carnot dine that Buffy strong point is the humor and its plot lines..

 

[Crashing Doors]

I agree with you about what Buffy does and how she deals with things, but I don't think I missed the point of Buffy after season 3. I understand what Buffy and her friends were going through, and I appreciate how she grew and how she dealt with things, as well as the fact that she does deal with very rough things. Like Joss said, they wanted to earn things--Joyce's death, Buffy's resurrection--they didn't just want to go "well Buffy died, now she's back and everything's okay". That's one of my favorite things of the show, that they don't try to take the easy way out--and that is an extremely mature thing to do.

I don't know though, I still think Angel's story of redemption has just as much power to it. Maybe I just relate to it more because of personal experience, maybe not. What they deal with is much different though. Buffy deals with things maturely, but she's dealing with things that just kind of happened, or things that people did to her. Angel is dealing with decisions that he (well, Angellus) made and I think that lends to a different kind of analysis. Not saying which is better or more meaningful, just makes it harder to understand.

I mean, Buffy's still my favorite... I get the feeling that I'm implying otherwise, but, really--yay Buffy.

 

[ukkid09]

I agree with you about what Buffy does and how she deals with things, but I don't think I missed the point of Buffy after season 3. I understand what Buffy and her friends were going through, and I appreciate how she grew and how she dealt with things, as well as the fact that she does deal with very rough things. Like Joss said, they wanted to earn things--Joyce's death, Buffy's resurrection--they didn't just want to go "well Buffy died, now she's back and everything's Kay". That's one of my favorite things of the show, that they don't try to take the easy way out--and that is an extremely mature thing to do.

I don't know though, I still think Angel's story of redemption has just as much power to it. Maybe I just relate to it more because of personal experience, maybe not. What they deal with is much different though. Buffy deals with things maturely, but she's dealing with things that just kind of happened, or things that people did to her. Angel is dealing with decisions that he (well, Angels) made and I think that lends to a different kind of analysis. Not saying which is better or more meaningful, just makes it harder to understand.

I mean, Buffy's still my favorite... I get the feeling that I'm implying otherwise, but, really--ya Buffy.

I do agree.But in Buffy it shown that life is not a walk in the park,Life deals with consequence and Buffy deals that perfect,like leaving Buffy inn her own grave and she had too dig out off it but that wasn't Buffy fault that was her friends,And when she resurrection and her death it always has consequence and choices.....And i think Buffy relate it more then Angel..

The whole redemption with angel is kinda common and i felt that angel redemption was like his redemtion was special but its not, its common because every bodys going threw it. But i can relate lots of character going threw redemtion..So i agree with you that you need experiences of redemption to make Angel more relatible...

And Buffy is the best i do agree with you also.lol....

 

[Mozzymandias]

think you miss the point with Buffy after season three.

Everyone will interpret things differently. There are Preferred readings which is what the writer intends for the viewer to take. Negotiated where a viewer takes what the writer intended on board but connotes a different reading and then there is the oppositional reading where the viewer completely disagrees at what is put in front of them and gives a complete different view of a situation. Most of us always make a negotiated reading, we see situations in different ways from how we are brought up, lifestyle and other things factor in. Therefore I don't believe anyone can actually miss the point of any TV show because they respond to it in a way that makes sense to them, whether its what the writer intended or not because at the end of the day it still makes a point in some form.

I do agree.But in Buffy it shown that life is not a walk in the park,Life deals with consequence and Buffy deals that perfect,like leaving Buffy inn her own grave and she had too dig out off it but that wasn't Buffy fault that was her friends,And when she resurrection and her death it always has consequence and choices.....And i think Buffy relate it more then Angel..

The whole redemption with angel is kinda common and i felt that angel redemption was like his redemtion was special but its not, its common because every bodys going threw it. But i can relate lots of character going threw redemtion..So i agree with you that you need experiences of redemption to make Angel more relatible...

And Buffy is the best i do agree with you also.lol....

I think both shows equally show how life is not easy, it's always a battle. Whilst of course metaphorical in the show, most demons represent something that can be related to the real world in which we live. Like I said in a previous post, I think Angel is much more relatable to a slightly older target audience. You say about Buffy's death and resurrection and it's consequences, which it does don't get me wrong, but so does every big and tiny decision in both shows. Buffy's death and resurrection I'd say are comparable to the de-souling and re-ensouling of Angel. Both of these show how big the consequences of doing certain actions can be.

 

[ukkid09]

Everyone will interpret things differently. There are Preferred readings which is what the writer intends for the viewer to take. Negotiated where a viewer takes what the writer intended on board but connotes a different reading and then there is the oppositional reading where the viewer completely disagrees at what is put in front of them and gives a complete different view of a situation. Most of us always make a negotiated reading, we see situations in different ways from how we are brought up, lifestyle and other things factor in. Therefore I don't believe anyone can actually miss the point of any TV show because they respond to it in a way that makes sense to them, whether its what the writer intended or not because at the end of the day it still makes a point in some form.



I think both shows equally show how life is not easy, it's always a battle. Whilst of course metaphorical in the show, most demons represent something that can be related to the real world in which we live. Like I said in a previous post, I think Angel is much more relatable to a slightly older target audience. You say about Buffy's death and resurrection and it's consequences, which it does don't get me wrong, but so does every big and tiny decision in both shows. Buffy's death and resurrection I'd say are comparable to the de-souling and re-ensouling of Angel. Both of these show how big the consequences of doing certain actions can be.

Yeah but angel re souling we seen it in Buffy also..

 

[Bluebird]

Who agrees that Buffy is a greater show then Angel and why ...

I prefer Angel, just slightly. Although I love Buffy too, I love the darkness of Angel, and there's a lot more of a moral grey area than on Buffy. Makes it seem a bit more realistic in that way.

Better character development better plots and better standard of epsiode and a better quality of eps. EX: hush, the body, the gift ECT.
why do you think buffy was the greater show ...

I do think Buffy has better stand alone episodes, but not better episodes overall. And character development was a lot more obvious on Angel. Look at Wesley or Cordelia, they changed a lot more over the years than Willow, Xander or Buffy ever did.

I'm not saying I dislike Buffy, I think both shows match each other for quality. It's just a personal preference I have towards Angel. 🙂

 

[Mozzymandias]

Yeah but angel re souling we seen it in Buffy also..

My point wasn't the re-ensouling. My point was that both shows so consequences of life. That was just an example. We saw a vamp staked on Buffy, does that mean it's not allowed to have the same meaning on Angel?

 

[ukkid09]

My point wasn't the re-ensouling. My point was that both shows so consequences of life. That was just an example. We saw a vamp staked on Buffy, does that mean it's not allowed to have the same meaning on Angel?

Yeah but its a story too Buffy , a meaning like joss did that on purpose to show slaying is a hard gig.He is a vampire and he should get staked ..

 

[Willow-Tree]

You can debate all of this thoroughly and painfully, but what it all comes down to is a person's own opinion.

My personal favorite is Buffy. Now, on some days I might say it's Angel, simply because I watched an episode recentley, or had been discussing it, but at the end of the day, Buffy is my girl. 🙂

 

[DayVBayB]

For me it's always been Angel. I personally like the darker, (can I say?) more mature themes of the episodes. The cast was much more balanced and even the worst episodes weren't as bad as some of the buffy episodes.
The seasons were more coherent and I liked the idea of a "Big Bad" that didn't just last a single season.

Don't get me wrong, Buffy is a great show but Angel, to me, outclasses it by a quite a margin.

 

[Crashing Doors]

Even though I've said I'm always a little bit more in favor of Buffy, I really do love how Angel had a long-lasting Big Bad. The big evil corporation. As much as I love Buffy, it would have been nice if the Big Bads lingered into other seasons, sort of like how Spike did after season 2. It makes sense in TV land, to have the big climax, but for the climax (ie: death of the Big Bad) to come just before summer break doesn't really make sense. I don't question why it happened like that, but I do think that having a Big Bad that lasted basically the entire run of AtS made more sense.

All in all though, I found Buffy's Big Bads to be more interesting. W&H was a tad bit boring--I love Lilah though, she was fantastic. As cool as the seasons-spanning Big Bad is, the evil law firm thing never seemed extremely menacing to me, at least not until season 5 when we got a little more into its inner-workings. Or whenever they'd talk about the Wolf, the Ram, the Hart.

 

[ukkid09]

Even though I've said I'm always a little bit more in favor of Buffy, I really do love how Angel had a long-lasting Big Bad. The big evil corporation. As much as I love Buffy, it would have been nice if the Big Bads lingered into other seasons, sort of like how Spike did after season 2. It makes sense in TV land, to have the big climax, but for the climax (ie: death of the Big Bad) to come just before summer break doesn't really make sense. I don't question why it happened like that, but I do think that having a Big Bad that lasted basically the entire run of AtS made more sense.

All in all though, I found Buffy's Big Bads to be more interesting. W&H was a tad bit boring--I love Lilah though, she was fantastic. As cool as the seasons-spanning Big Bad is, the evil law firm thing never seemed extremely menacing to me, at least not until season 5 when we got a little more into its inner-workings. Or whenever they'd talk about the Wolf, the Ram, the Hart.

I totally agree with your point about the big bads,This why i love Buffy because it has new character each season instead of all theses familiar faces ,i prefer Buffy bigs bads, each big bad had depth and character and history to them, i prefer Buffy big bad because their more interesting. i do agree... OMG i thought wolfram and hart were a little boring too,Thats why i relate Buffy big bads more because its more character to relate and discuss with..