BtVS Season 7 Rewatch

[Grace]

Storyteller reminds me of The Zeppo. Change in POV for a side funny male character to liven up the season, behind the comedy there are dire circumstances, a side character becomes central to averting a disaster at school (Hellmouth/blowing up the school), said side character provides caricatures of the Scoobies and stories based on their perspective

One thing that I hadn't really thought about before was how Storyteller in a way provides a commentary on Xander himself. He's on the inside this time (even if he's mostly operating quietly in the background this season). We have to take Andrew's POV with a grain of salt, but Xander seems like he's grown up a lot since The Zeppo. And I like how Andrew calls him "extraordinary," as Xander called Dawn in Potential.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I'll be back to put my thoughts down on LMPTM soon but we are continuing on with next week's schedule:

Week Eight
Dirty Girls
Empty Places

-----------
Not sure if I'll be able to figure this out but @Meliza had recommended Rabb.it which is a website where we can all get together and do re-watches together (its a chat room and you can also turn on audio or video if you are very brave!). It is tough to do for most of the re-watch together because we all have our own schedules - but we could arrange a time to get together and watch the Chosen finale together live. If you all are interested in doing something like this let me know. I would probably aim for watching Chosen sometime around the March 18 or thereabouts. If there is enough interest I will try and get Meliza to help me figure out how to work the website 🙂.

 

[Mylie]

Storyteller

This is a weird one for me because I generally don't care about Andrew but this is such a good Andrew centric episode.

I love the way his character's traits are used in a sort of meta way, in the way the episode is structured and shot. The episode tells us a lot about Andrew, how he sees the world but also how others see him. Everytime I watch this episode, I end up caring about the character for like 1 episode.

His introductions to the characters were fun. Dawn's introduction was particularly cute. I was surprised to not see Giles in the episode. Was his absence explained? I can't remember.

I'm confused as how that knife could have been in the kitchen for all of that time with nobody noticing it, when there are so many people in the house, and using that kitchen.

The Buffy/Andrew scene at the end is very powerful and works for me, for both characters. We see Buffy using her cold exterior and harsh truth to get a reaction out of him but then after the seal closes we see her warmer, a little closer to the Buffy I love. And I do believe her when she says she wasn't going to stab him.

This episode makes me wish that Andrew had died in Chosen instead of Anya. It would have made it more meaningful to me.

Overall, this is a very strong and enjoyable episode that is both smart and funny.

My ranking :
Selfless
Same Time, Same Place
Lessons
Storyteller
Potential
Conversations With Dead People
Him
Never Leave Me
Showtime
Bring On the Night
Help
The Killer In Me
First Date
Sleeper
Get it Done
Beneath You

 

[thetopher]

I was surprised to not see Giles in the episode. Was his absence explained? I can't remember.

I always assumed Giles was off finding some sort of cure for Spike's trigger; looked like it took at least some time and effort.

 

[debbicles]

Potential, or
"They also serve who only stand and wait."

Oh how I love this episode. It's Dawn and Xander, but particularly Dawn, and it's so poignant and uplifting at the same time. In the best Buffy tradition.
And before I go any further, I must acknowledge that Tribel's insights into this episode are nothing if not inspired. I can't manage quotations at all well, so I hope she picks this up.

Opening with the classic graveyard setting - and the first of the two choreographed demonstration fights of the episode. Rona and Vi, the latter clutching her stake in a hilariously unSlayer-like grip, creeping along. The angels do have their backs to us - Spike feeling the weight of his soul and his grandsire's footsteps - until a twig snaps. A vampire growls. A flash then Rona is knocked down and Vi seized in a hard semi-choke hold. Spike is in full teacher mode. I loved Rona's quip. Spike almost looks as though he agrees with her. When Spike lets go of Vi, he shoves her along impatiently. Vi later hurts the bait vampire's arm in retribution for Spike hurting hers.

But when Buffy orders him to attack her, Spike is off his game. He slams into a tombstone. Buffy is worried about him - briefly they hold hands and I have a flashback not only to the "hey, no touching!" from BY, but also to Intervention and even further back, to The Body. Spike has some ribs that haven't set right yet. In Intervention he told Buffy he had some bones that need mending and while Buffy was trying to revive Joyce she was scared lest she had broken Joyce's rib. She was told then not to worry, but she still does. I may well be accused of stretching a point here but I can't help but wonder if Buffy is still trying to reach back and save her mother. Transference? Hmm. Food for thought.

Anyway, this is all grist for the wannabes as Molly sits there diligently making notes. And Kennedy picks up on the run and hide advice. Trust your instincts, Buffy says. What are her instincts telling her?

The potentials pick up on the complicated relationship but Spike is keen not to overstep boundaries. He has badly misread the signs before, with terrible consequences, and is anxious not to do so again. Buffy gives him a literal helping hand up, patting him lightly on his back.

Yay, Amanda is back. Buffy gives her a little speech about how sometimes violence is the only way some people connnect to eachother. Ok, moving along to Amanda's bewildered face. I remember Buffy's decrying her own self-involvement in IWMTLY. She has learned a thing or two since then, however, and shuts up.

Later on the girls will joke about Buffy and her demon issues. The scene in the demon bar reminds me of Buffy "coming out" to Joyce about being the Slayer, while Spike was there. Spike is being quite low-key and restrained - apart threatening the demon in the bar, he even curbs his tongue with the girls. But later in Killer in Me we see there really is only so much sass and back chat from these greenhorns that he can take.

Buffy's remark about how vampires are animals visibly annoys him. I think it would have annoyed Angel as well, if I recall something he tried to say once about vampires and personalities. And as for Buffy finding his crypt "comfy", the look on his face says: "Yeah, until you blew it up." Anyway, the girls are behaving in archetypal teenage fashion- showing little respect for their teachers. It's almost comforting.

And who isn't glad to see Clem again?

The moment when the girls are left to fight the vampire alone - is this really the best way to do it? Isn't the Slayer usually alone? If the girls are taught to rely on eachother from the outset, how will that help them? Anyway, both here and later on the stairwell Spike and Buffy show once again that they are a seamless tag team.

Anyway on to Dawn. She shows that she is keen to get to know the enemy - research is her meat and drink. Buffy doesn't care what the Mega Vamp's proper name is, she is action girl and just wants to destroy it. Dawn's face firstly when Buffy ignores her correction then later when she is told not to be late for school... I feel for her.

Willow's locator spell going wrong for once is funny. Anya and Andrew both make telling observations about Dawn's new situation, but Xander shuts Andrew up, as he doesn't want to hear about Eve's legacy - as in Adam and Eve. But it's a crucial point, I think. The evil and previously evil ones speak the truth. And it is their fate to be ignored.

Dawn is courageous but headstrong. She wants to prove herself so she sneaks out.

The second staged fight is interspersed with the real fight that Dawn and Amanda are waging. I think it's really well done. Buffy has disconnected herself again. Dawn and Amanda are alone, and Dawn shows how brave and resourceful she is. Her disappointment when the Bringers come for Amanda is terrible and again you really feel for her. But she rallies and gives Amanda the right kind of pep talk, as opposed to Buffy's talk with Amanda earlier.

The vampire on the ceiling was genuinely chilling. Visual reference to The Fury, a film I still find disturbing.

Later at Casa Summers the girls exchange battle stories. We find that Amanda was on her way to see Buffy when she was engulfed in an orange light. So it was all a misdirect, and for once this season it was properly done. Yet again Buffy ignores Dawn. Dawn's earlier remark was that all the important people were with Buffy echoes here.

I did enjoy Xander's little you're extraordinary speech. This season Xander has come into his own. Previously I haven't much liked him when I've looked more closely, past the goofy funny veneer. But I may be warming to him now.

Dawn could go off in a sulk, but she hits the books again. She chooses to contribute as best she knows how. And I think that is another theme from this season- choices. Not just this season, really.

The big moments come - you can't help that. But you can help what you do afterwards.
 
The Killer in Me,
Or the giant Government conspiracy

I found this episode a mixed bag. On the one hand, we get an answer about Giles, and I'll be honest I wasn't clever enough first time round to notice this problem. But I'm not sure the riddle would be solved in that way now.

I'll get what I enjoyed first out of the way.

First, poor SMG. She clearly has a rotten sore throat and the crew has made her a hot drink. I can't help but notice over the years of watching films and tv that, no matter how brilliant an actor is, they are almost without exception unable to hold and lift an empty cup or mug as if it were full. What a trooper.

I wish I could catch what it is Anya is saying about Rona and Molly as she walks to the kitchen. Dawn prepared to do violence - again. I shouldn't find that funny but I do.

All the stuff with Spike and Buffy. Except where he collapses in the living room while they confront Willow as Warren. Should I be finding this funny? Clearly some will, but I don't take pleasure in the spectacle of someone's pain. I hated watching what happened to Warren. I'm just a softie.

I did like Spike's reference to clomping teenage girly feet and behavioural modification software throughout the ages. He has chained himself to the wall, but both he and Buffy are relieved the girls are gone. And I was relieved to see Buffy talk about her bathroom, casually. They muse on how much they have in common, and I enjoyed hearing Buffy use the word "wonky".

Buffy has come a long way since AYW, when she felt humiliated at Riley's discovery that she was with Spike. And humiliated at being with him in the first place. She puts all that to one side and tries to contact her former lover, not seemingly caring that he will find out that Spike is still around and pretty much in her life still. Needless to say, my trusty Spuffometer rose gradually during this episode.

Buffy accompanies Spike to the Initiative- because there is nothing better on tv. I like how they quip with eachother even in the face of this problem. I don't understand any of the stuff Spike says about the drugs, because that didn't seem too consistent with what actually happened onscreen before in The Initiative. So I just enjoyed Buffy's revulsion and dismay when she sees the demons were just abandoned underground. She had been coming round to the idea that all was not well with this set-up, first over Oz, then Adam then Riley.

But now she sees for herself that evil is as evil does, and it doesn't matter if you call yourself a good guy but then do - as Roy Batty would say - questionable things. And by questionable I do mean bad.

Spike is horrified when the chip misfires at precisely the wrong time - well, duh! - and he can't help Buffy against the demon. But never mind, she more than manages alone. Cue the soldiers, and I did laugh at Spike looking annoyed at the ass-face comment, then the colonel or whatever looking sideways to check out the accuracy of the description.

The cliffhanger isn't a real cliffhanger - Buffy's choice - to remove or repair the chip, may be a hard one but it's a good guess that she will take another leap of faith. Hostile 17 is on the receiving end of the Government ministrations after his failure years before to get the chip out.

Ok, now to Willow and Kennedy. Adorable conversation in the kitchen between Buffy and Willow.
But after that for me it goes downhill very fast.

The conversation Willow and Kennedy have in The Bronze - I kept hoping that Willow's expression while Kennedy was doing her spiel meant that she was wondering what the hell she was doing in the company of this spoilt, entitled mouthy brat. But sadly, that didn't happen.

Kennedy's approach to chatting up girls - and here my predictive text put in Giles instead of girls, now wouldn't that have been something - smacks to me of any aggressive, overly confident predatory male. Lavish the girl with insincere praise, then if that doesn't work, get her drunk.

What the heck???

Tara please come back.

I didn't expect Willow to mourn forever. But when you murder someone then try to destroy the world, don't you think that's a sign of a love that's so deep and consuming that you take more than, you know, a few months to hop back on the train? And with someone who is gentler than Kennedy? Just me, then?

Anyway, Willow changes into Warren and it's all very baffling, a bit silly and played uneasily between comedy and drama. I did like Willow's Aquaman reference and Andrew recoiling in horror.

I've said somewhere else that Willow never really understood why Tara left her in the first place, and that I don't think she deserved her coming back. But that's my problem. Here I really still didn't see any indication from Willow that it was guilt over Warren's death that caused this. Does she feel that she caused Tara's death? Because indirectly I think she did - she and Tara were so wrapped up in their reconciliation that they put off the research into the Trio that might have led to the discovery of their plans earlier. But it's pointless dwelling on what ifs and that is not what we are being shown here, I don't think.

Anyway, we see Amy again, and the campus Wiccans. I can't help but wonder what they put in their cakes.

Amy has placed a standard malediction curse on Willow, lucky for her the timing is right. I do like Amy and she is very sinister here.

Anyway, Willow's curse is lifted by a second kiss from Kennedy. Again, I think I must be very slow because this made no sense to me at all. Especially as Kennedy derided magic as cr**p. Oh, shove off, Kennedy.

Did I mention I don't like Kennedy?

Honourable mention to Aly Hannigan - fabulous as always.

 

[sosa lola]

Potential:


I liked the lessons in the cemetery, however, I was annoyed with Buffy's speech about death in the basement. I just don't see how those girls are gonna be motivated when she tells them, "You're all gonna die." No wonder one of them will kill herself in Get It Done.

Dawn is feeling inferior surrounded by special girls, especially since they're hogging Buffy's attention. The season started with Buffy teaching Dawn how to fight, now Buffy barely has time for Dawn. I don't blame Buffy since it seems Giles has dumped that responsibility on her shoulders and isn't doing anything to help. (I'd rather believe he was away to pick up a potential slayer.)

Why would Xander take a shower at Buffy's place? I guess he spent the night at the Summers' house.

There's a thread in another forum discussing Buffy's self-involvement, and I guess it's apparent in her counseling sessions. I don't expect Buffy to be a good counselor. She'd never had any training. But something's off when all Buffy's counseling sessions end up being about her. The counselor storyline is a great idea, but sadly it wasn't used well. I would have liked seeing Buffy being a mentor for Dawn and her friends the way Giles used to be for Buffy, Xander and Willow.

I didn't like how the gang reacted to Dawn being the next slayer, especially Anya:

ANYA
Wow, it's like one second you were this klutzy teenager with fake memories and a history of kleptomania, and then—then suddenly you're a hero, a hero with a much abbreviated lifespan.

So, only a slayer gets to be a hero??

Where are Dawn's friends from Lessons? I wish we could have seen Dawn hang out with them. If only Dawn's friend Kit is the new potential slayer, that would have been cool and would have connected the episodes together.

I'd have prefered if the potential slayers were just Amanda, Kennedy, Rona, Vi, Molly and Chole. It's better if they were less in number and this way they could have been fleshed out more.

The last scene between Dawn and Xander shows how much of a good dad Xander would make. He's already playing the role of the father in S7. It's interesting that Xander is so good at encouraging others and being observant about them, but can't do the same thing about himself and his problems. This trait is in a lot of people and it's why Xander is such a real character.

9/10

 

[fauxindigo]

"I'd have prefered if the potential slayers were just Amanda, Kennedy, Rona, Vi, Molly and Chole. It's better if they were less in number and this way they could have been fleshed out more."

Yes to Amanda, Kennedy, Violet, Molly and Chloe.
I'd add at least 3-4 more, like maybe the German slayer with pink hair (Beneath You) and have her actually be Rowena who finally shows up in Season 8. I'd have Renee instead of Rona show up in Season 7 along with Satsu instead of Chao-An and Leah instead of all the other nameless slayers.

 

[Grace]

Dirty Girls

First things first. I don't think I will ever forgive Joss for making me think about Jesus' white-colored bodily fluids. Gross, Joss. (Drew Goddard is the credited writer on this episode, but according to Mark Field, Goddard says in the DVD commentary that Joss wrote the teaser and much of the episode. Caleb's dialogue seems very Jossy to me.)

"Just another dirty girl. And, since you only dress up in dead folk, I'm guessing one who's already been paid her wage." - I did feel kinda smart when I heard this line and the first thing that popped into my head was, "For the wages of sin is death."

As you can already tell, Caleb's dialogue -- and The First's as well -- really stood out for me on this rewatch. In some ways, it feels over the top, but it's also just so interesting.

"Now, now, now. There's no blame here. You were born dirty, born without a soul. Born with that gaping maw wants to open up, suck out a man's marrow. Makes me puke to think too hard on it."

Caleb's description of women is strikingly similar to a description of vampires -- they are born dirty (they are sired and then rise through the dirt of their graves), they don't have souls, and their mouths are designed to suck out the lifeblood of "man," as in humans. There are obviously sexual connotations here as well, but it was interesting to me to think about Caleb feeling as justified in killing women as Buffy does in slaying vampires.

"Now, it's a simple story. Stop me if you've heard it. I have found and truly believe that there is nothing so bad it cannot be made better with a story."

I liked the continued focus on narrative and the stories we tell ourselves, following Storyteller and the flashbacks in Lies My Parents Told Me.

Also, there's a disturbing thread through the episode that seems to compare the girls who followed Caleb and were killed to the Potentials who were killed by Caleb while following Buffy (though I could be reading too much into it):

BUFFY/FIRST: "All these girls...they followed you willingly. You tricked them."
CALEB: "I only told them the truth. As for following, well, that seems to be what they do best."

REAL BUFFY: "I don't want to lead them into war. It can't be the right thing."

CALEB: "You show up, they'll get in line. 'Cause they followed her. And all they have to do is take one more step, and I'll kill them all. See? I told you it had a happy ending."

Dirty Girls has a lot going for it: Caleb is an interesting if over-the-top addition, Faith is a breath of fresh air (I hadn't seen Angel S4 the first time I watched this season, and it makes a difference in my reaction to her!), SMG is great as The First, Andrew continues to be funny, etc. Oh, and Xander. How awesome was his speech? Way to make it hurt even more when Caleb gets to him later!

Things are very bad for Buffy, though. Pretty much everyone was against her plan, but they all trusted her enough to do it anyway. Now two Potentials are dead, more are hurt, and Xander is permanently injured.

 

[sosa lola]

"I'd have prefered if the potential slayers were just Amanda, Kennedy, Rona, Vi, Molly and Chole. It's better if they were less in number and this way they could have been fleshed out more."

Yes to Amanda, Kennedy, Violet, Molly and Chloe.
I'd add at least 3-4 more, like maybe the German slayer with pink hair (Beneath You) and have her actually be Rowena who finally shows up in Season 8. I'd have Renee instead of Rona show up in Season 7 along with Satsu instead of Chao-An and Leah instead of all the other nameless slayers.

Ooooh, I would have loved if Rowena, Renee, Leah, and Satsu were introduced in S7. I do think we need Rona because she's usually opposed to Buffy and we need a character like that.
 
The Killer in Me:

This episode is divided into three plots:

Willow/Warren:

I was glad they focused on Willow's redemption issues, having her wear the face of the man she killed was interesting. BUT the question that digs into my guts is why the hell Amy hates Willow? Why the hell is Amy a flat villain? She was sweet and nice back in high school. Maybe she wasn't my fave character but she certainly wasn't like this? Perhaps she wants revenge since Willow kept her as a rat for years and didn't try to de-rat her seriously.

Another thing I disliked was the shifting between Adam and Alyson. It should have been Warren's face throughout the episode.

Now to Willow's issues with Tara, nice that Tara was mentioned again. I kinda liked the Willow/Kennedy story here, but I keep thinking maybe it should have been Dawn or Xander helping Willow out. They'd get more screen time and a reminder that these people are still friends is really nice at the moment.

I still have issues with how forced Kennedy and Willow are starting their relationship. I'll nag and nag that just because Kennedy is a lesbian, she may not be attracted to Willow. I'm glad it's so obvious that Willow didn't seem to care about Kennedy romantically.

Another point, if Willow's love for Tara was so great that she was about to destroy the world, why rushing into another relationship now? Why not wait at least a year? It was nice to see Willow fall on her knees and cry because she thought she was cheating on Tara. And I like believing that Kennedy is the one pushing Willow into the relationship and Willow just needed comfort, which is why she was using Kennedy. Willow's feelings for Kennedy never rung true to me,

Spoiler: Comic Spoilers

it's probably why she cheated on her in the comics and then dumped her.

Speaking of Xander and Dawn, how sweet it was when Xander pushed Dawn behind him and asked Anya to get Buffy when they saw Warren/Willow. To heck with Giles, Xander is the father of the house.

Oh, and people who still doubt that Andrew was in love with Warren? You should rewatch the ep.


Spike and The Initiative:

I love that they dealt with Spike's chip. I loved Buffy's choice of removing the chip. Spike deserves to have it removed, but the downside is that Spike was still under the effect of The First. So I agree with Giles later about chaining him. I know, it's not Spike's fault, but they shouldn't take the risk.


Giles The First:

Lame.

I think my favorite part here was when Xander was so concerned for Giles, he stopped talking all together. His face was a mirror of misery. It hurts to see Xander care about Giles like that when Giles wouldn't even visit him in the hospital when he lost his eye. I've always thought there was an unrequited adoration on Xander's side. Xander shows how much he cares about Giles' well being and his opinions of Xander in many occasions, the only time I remember Giles caring about Xander was in Pangs when Xander got the Syphilis. Also when Giles supported Xander's decision to fake amnesia in The Pack.

Best Character of the Episode: Riley! Riley! Riley!

He wasn't in the episode, but just calling Spike 'Ass-Face' in his orders made me wish he's here! God, I love watching the sweet snarking between two males and Xander and Spike are so not doing a good job with it since they became "mature".

Soldier: Those were his exact words, ma'am.

4/10

 

[debbicles]

Sosa Lola said

"This episode is divided into three plots:

Willow/Warren:

I was glad they focused on Willow's redemption issues, having her wear the face of the man she killed was interesting. BUT the question that digs into my guts is why the hell Amy hates Willow? Why the hell is Amy a flat villain? She was sweet and nice back in high school. Maybe she wasn't my fave character but she certainly wasn't like this? Perhaps she wants revenge since Willow kept her as a rat for years and didn't try to de-rat her seriously.

Another thing I disliked was the shifting between Adam and Alyson. It should have been Warren's face throughout the episode.

Now to Willow's issues with Tara, nice that Tara was mentioned again. I kinda liked the Willow/Kennedy story here, but I keep thinking maybe it should have been Dawn or Xander helping Willow out. They'd get more screen time and a reminder that these people are still friends is really nice at the moment.

I still have issues with how forced Kennedy and Willow are starting their relationship. I'll nag and nag that just because Kennedy is a lesbian, she may not be attracted to Willow. I'm glad it's so obvious that Willow didn't seem to care about Kennedy romantically.

Another point, if Willow's love for Tara was so great that she was about to destroy the world, why rushing into another relationship now? Why not wait at least a year? It was nice to see Willow fall on her knees and cry because she thought she was cheating on Tara. And I like believing that Kennedy is the one pushing Willow into the relationship and Willow just needed comfort, which is why she was using Kennedy. Willow's feelings for Kennedy never rung true to me...


Spike and The Initiative:

I love that they dealt with Spike's chip. I loved Buffy's choice of removing the chip. Spike deserves to have it removed, but the downside is that Spike was still under the effect of The First. So I agree with Giles later about chaining him. I know, it's not Spike's fault, but they shouldn't take the risk.


Giles The First:

Lame.

I think my favorite part here was when Xander was so concerned for Giles, he stopped talking all together. His face was a mirror of misery. It hurts to see Xander care about Giles like that when Giles wouldn't even visit him in the hospital when he lost his eye. I've always thought there was an unrequited adoration on Xander's side. Xander shows how much he cares about Giles' well being and his opinions of Xander in many occasions, the only time I remember Giles caring about Xander was in Pangs when Xander got the Syphilis. Also when Giles supported Xander's decision to fake amnesia in The Pack? "
End Sosa Lola quote

Re Amy, well, in general strong emotions of hatred, fear, envy, love, etc. They don't always need rationalising, do they. But you could have a point, being a rat for so long seems to have embittered Amy.

Re Giles, yes, Xander is now the protective one. I liked that, as well. But I have some thoughts on Giles and his attitude to Spike, which I shall put in my comments on First Date and LMPTM.
Re Willow and Kennedy - exactly my thoughts.

Edited to say the above is all an extract quote from Sosa Lola but it didn't work. Sorry about that.

 

[Grace]

I've been thinking more about the comparison between The Zeppo and Storyteller that @dcai0830 noted, and how Storyteller–Lies My Parents Told Me–Dirty Girls kind of flip the scripts of Helpless–The Zeppo–Bad Girls (though in a little different order).

Storyteller gives us Xander as an insider instead of the outsider of The Zeppo; LMPTM gives us a Giles who is fired from his "parent" role while remaining the last vestige of the Watchers Council, instead of getting fired from the Council but staying on as Buffy's father figure in Helpless; and Dirty Girls gives us a Buffy who, like Faith in Bad Girls, is willing to jump pretty blindly into a dangerous situation. ("You're just gonna go down there. That's your plan?")

 

[Mrs Gordo]

LMPTM

It's sad to see little Robin actually saw Spike beat his mom up. I got very emotional this time around at the opening scene with "the mission is what matters." Because of course, Robin would feel (and later Spike will exploit the feeling) that his mom chose the mission over being his mom. But like @Grace says above, that isn't accurate. The slayer doesn't have a choice. She is the Chosen One. Who, if not her, will protect the world? A world that Robin is very much a part of.

LOL @ Giles and his books. I like this little beat. We don't get enough of the funnies in this season so when we get them, I hold on to them like a beautiful treasure.

"So he has a trigger, a soul, and a chip?" I am so Wood there.

The worm CGI I mean good God... it's terrible.

Love seeing Dru and Spike together it reminds me of s2 goodness. And Dru's face when he says he wants to bring his mom is pretty hilarious.

"It takes more than rousing speeches to lead Buffy." Agreed. Giles.

I don't agree with anyone fully in this episode,

Yeah, this is sorta my feeling. I feel like everyone is a little wrong. And I think that's the point.

A LOT of what Wood says to Spike rings true to me. The thing is, I am more critical of Spike not demanding to be kept in chains than Buffy deciding he should be free to roam around with a trigger. He isn't safe. He knows it. Why would he want to risk harming anyone? Buffy has feelings for him and those feelings cloud her judgment. She would probably make the same decision if it was Willow or Dawn or any other person she cares about. I guess I give Buffy a pass* because she wants to see the good in Spike and she is a bit blinded by that. But Spike has the memories of the people he killed, I'm not asking for him to go and run up to the top of a hill and wait for the sun, but at the very least he should offer to put himself in chains, to restrain himself so he can't do any harm or to work hard to figure this trigger thing out. His trigger caused him to lash out and inadvertently hurt Dawn, something I'm sure he feels horrible about. The potentials are freaked out about having him around his chip. So taking all of this into consideration when Wood says: "See, you strike me as the kind of guy who just careens through life, completely oblivious to the damage he's doing to everyone around him." I can't help but think of Xander's "You're not wrong."

Wood is wrong because killing Spike is not the answer. Especially when your aim is not to protect others but to get revenge. Spike has a soul. he should be afforded the same protections any human has and that means while he should be restrained, and people should be smart to take precaution around him but he should not be killed. It's not his fault that he is a danger. And certainly, he shouldn't be killed as a result of the acts committed when he had no soul. (A distinction that in Wood's defense perhaps he doesn't fully grasp).

Giles is wrong to go behind Buffy's back. I agree that she is making some questionable decisions but to take this course of action is not excusable. Giles and Buffy's relationship break in this episode is especially sad for me. I know he has good intentions but it is just so patronizing of him to think that he has any right to make this decision without her. I guess its appropriate that Giles is a metaphor for the patriarchy. Too many metaphors not enough time.

*While I understand where Buffy is coming from, while I see that she doesn't want Spike to think she doesn't trust him or to think he can't be a good man - Buffy is wrong as well. She is wrong to allow Spike to roam freely when he is a danger. She is wrong to say that she would allow Spike to kill Wood. She is STILL the Slayer. She is still beholden to protect humanity. Wood may be stupid but he is still a human. Do I believe it? Not really. But generally, I think Buffy is trying to prove her point here. I think she gets it across. If she is being truthful though I really have lost sight of Buffy.

To add to my never-ending confusion with regards to this episode I am both happy to see Spike get his swagger back because I enjoy seeing him back to at least the character I recognize and I am enraged by the things he is saying about Wood's mom. I honestly can't win here. Spike is wrong. The slayer doesn't "know what she is signing up for." Perhaps Spike is projecting here as you could argue that he participated in the choice to become a vampire, but a Slayer doesn't choose this life. And Nikki continuing to fight the forces of evil doesn't mean she doesn't love her child, maybe it even motivated her more. After all, Buffy was a more powerful Slayer because of the connections she had in her life. Her friends, her loves, her family. She was emotionally invested in protecting this world and she drew strength from that. Who is to say that Nikki did not do the same?

And here's the thing. Spike figured out his trigger, he has the upper hand. He can kill Wood if he wants (and in fact, we get that dumb fake out at the end). But it's not enough that he can beat him senseless, it's not enough that his demon killed Wood's mom, leaving him orphaned. No. Spike feels the need to pray on what he knows is Wood's weaknesses - the idea that Wood's mom didn't love him. So not only did Spike's demon kill Wood's mom, Spike has ruined Wood's memory of her. "You see, unlike you, I had a mother who loved me back." And Spike can F off with that.

Spike's mom would've made a bomb ass villain. Just saying. I want a fic with Spike's mom and the Master trying to take over the world.

Raise your hand if you believe for one second that Buffy wouldn't want to know exactly where Willow is going and why. Do you think she knows?

This is not a terrible episode. It does what it is supposed to do which is to give us no easy answers, confuse us, frustrate us, and leave us feeling pretty empty. But even so, I hate watching it. It is not an enjoyable experience.

Note: since we have been keeping tabs for a larger cross-references project, Giles' mention of Angel marks the 4th time that Angel is addressed directly in the text of Season 7. This is the 7th time that Angel is addressed if you include vaguer references. Next episode will, of course, mark the 8th reference when Faith comes back. That's gotta be more than seasons 5-6 combined. Why the increase in references to Angel? Is it because of the inherent comparisons to Spike's post-soul journey? Is that as intentional as the parallel storylines and callbacks to WML, Amends, the Zeppo, etc? And if so - why? What are Joss & Co trying to say about Angel's story here, if anything?

 

[Mylie]

Lies My Parents Told Me

This episode is weird for me because my head and my heart can't agree when it comes to the characters.

What I enjoyed :

-Giles's rant about the library not having books was cute and funny. The scene where they explain Spike's situation to Wood was hilarious. "because the military gave him a soul?" lol

-Willow getting a phonecall from Fred then telling Buffy it's nothing she needs to worry about. I love that she didn't want to distract Buffy from whatever's going on in Sunnydale and Angel losing his soul again definitely would have been a distraction.

-"I'm in the fight of my life" "Not with you!"

-Buffy going to see Dawn at the end. I'm not in love with Buffy's lack of empathy towards Wood and she did seem cold in general in this episode but this little moment reassures me that it's all a facade she's putting on when everybody's watching. She still feels love and affection the best way to show that is with Dawn.

What I hated :

- All characters involved in the major storyline piss me off :

While I understand Giles's frustration and agree with some of the points he's making, he has no right to go behind Buffy's back. Not only is he being insubordinate (he did put her in the General position after all), but he also acts like he knows better and has things to teach her and maybe he did at one point, but she's been doing this for a long time now and he's never had the kind of pressure she's had on her shoulders. So I don't know how I feel about him in this episode. It'd probably be on his side if he hadn't betrayed Buffy.

It's probably no surprise to anyone that I don't agree with a lot of the choices Buffy is making this season (Spike's chip being one of them) and it's very frustrating to me. That said, it's HER choices and she should be allowed to make them given that she's the one with all the pressure on her shoulders. Do I wish she'd listen to the others? Yes. But I also wish people would stop looking at her like she's the only one who can save them all and she has to tell them what to do. It's a 2 way street. So seeing Buffy close the door in Giles face is somewhat satisfying to me. That said, I'll never get behind Buffy telling Wood that if Spike tries to kill him, she's going to let him.

Wood's story is very sad and I am inclined to feel for him. What he does is definitely not okay and given the Buffyverse's position on revenge, I'm not surprised that his plan goes wrong and is showed in a bad light. But because Spike ended up getting out of it in a better position just by walking all over his mother's memory, I feel more sympathy for him.

I don't understand what the writers tried to do with Spike in this episode. While Buffy kept saying "he's different, he has a soul now" this episode, it really didn't feel like it. His brushing off of a murder he committed to the son's victim is so upsetting to me. And it'd be different if he went in the same direction as Buffy and brushed it off as "it wasn't me, I have a soul now" but instead, he went with "that's what vampires do" and took power in ruining Wood's memory of his mother. And then the "if he looks at me funny, I'll kill him" which ??? Like... ok Buffy keeps saying he's changed and that he has a soul now... But can we please see that change? That's all I'm asking. I know we're usually supposed to see the show through Buffy's eyes but there's just a point where what she's saying and what the show is showing us becomes too different for me to take whatever Buffy says seriously anymore.

Other points :

Dawn getting hurt is always hard for me to watch.

I wish they hadn't cut so much of Giles's stuff in this episode. The moment Wood said it was "for the greater good" I had flashbacks to The Gift and I think keeping that stuff in would have made Giles's thought process in siding up with him more fleshed out.

The CGI for the bug thing going through Spike's eye was really bad but it still made me shiver lol

Overall, the characters in this episode frustrate me so much and the episode itself also angers me because it sides with Spike and in this case, I find it very problematic. It's not the worst episode of the show and it is quite ambitious, but very few episodes piss me off as much as this one.

My ranking :
Selfless
Same Time, Same Place
Lessons
Storyteller
Potential
Conversations With Dead People
Him
Never Leave Me
Showtime
Bring On the Night
Help
The Killer In Me
First Date
Sleeper
Lies My Parents Told Me
Get it Done
Beneath You

 

[debbicles]

First Date - bidets of evil and frisky vixens who dress really badly for the ambiguity.

Poor Xander. He practically oozes desperation. Not fair that yet again he becomes demon bait.
Ashanti should have stuck to her day job. I don't think she has any presence.
I did find Willow's reaction to Buffy thinking she was getting a promotion really funny.
The opening scene, where we get to see what happened with Giles and the Bringer, while enjoyable, was not really a surprise. Spike crashing into Giles, I think Buffy wanted to call him a berk as well. Anya causing trouble, otherwise there's no explanation for this.
Buffy seeing that Spike is trying to become a better man. Giles with his surrogate father love and concern for her. And that pained expression on his face when he tries to avoid thinking about any kind of physical intimacy between Spike and Buffy. Priceless. Buffy tries to explain her reasoning to him but he is appalled at her decision. The trigger is still active.
Poor Chao An. I do think the silly language jokes are mostly at Giles' expense - shout loudly enough in English and the foreigner will get it. But it's not terribly funny and a bit creaky.
And of course there is Buffy's declaration about wondering why everyone in the house thinks she is still in love with Spike.
I was amused by her talking about how cool Wood is - it did remind me of back in S4 when she was talking herself into a relationship with Riley - have you seen those arms? Those are good arms.
Anya's reference to the scene in CWDP. It says a lot about Buffy's life that she doesn't get to wear nice clothes very often. At least when they were at school or college they had some sort of social life. Now the responsibilities are enormous and they just want to let off some steam. Giles' little rant may be correct, but he should try to remember they are all young and want to have some fun.
Speaking of demons, what on earth is Spike doing on a sunny landing? I can't help but notice this is only the second time he has been seen upstairs in this and the last season, previously in NA when he flinches from the sunbeam. Is this because he is gradually making his way up in the world? Or is a landing just a landing sometimes?
Anyway, he and Buffy have a delightful chat about her not a date date. He protesteth too much, however, and his face is sorrowful after she leaves.
Wood is a mystery. We find out he enjoys them. And as for that weapons cabinet.
I did think that the stroll to the best restaurant in Sunnydale was a set up. And what on earth is Buffy wearing?
I loved the whole set up with the First. I don't care much for Andrew but both his encounters with First Jonathan are chilling. I find myself hoping Jonathan is not actually suffering torment and pain.
Spike and Giles' reactions to the news that the First has a plan for Spike. Willow pulling a face at Spike's comment.
Buffy is thrilled to meet the son of a Slayer - she hangs on Wood's every word. I had forgotten what a determined flirt she can be- it reminded me of when she used to upset Angel by doing this.
Not nice of Wood to laugh at her belief that she is a good counsellour.
But at least she managed to get dessert before Spike shows up, his face unreadable for a change, with the news that Xander is in trouble.
How did Xander's date go from a coffee shop to the school basement? Was he clunked on the head?
When Willow managed to do a locator spell is a mystery to me, but on the unduly long drive to the school - how big is Sunnydale again? - I noticed Wood glancing in the rear view mirror. I honestly thought it was then that he clocked Spike's lack of reflection. That would have been a nice touch. But no. It comes as a surprise to him when Spike vamps out.
And I really want Spike to stop fighting like a wet noodle. Get your mojo back, dearie.
The aftermath of the tussle with Lissa is telling. Buffy rushes to Spike's side. He assures her without a word that he is fine, but he looks away in sad resignation when she leaves him. He knows she needs to check on Xander but he also knows he doesn't stand a chance with her. Poor Xander, again.
Anya is so funny again, but I really want to see her in serious mode.
Chao An is funny, too, but I feel sorry for her.
Spike tells Buffy he needs to leave - he is superfluous to requirements now. Buffy orders him to stay - her reasons are more personal but she still can't bring herself to say anything unambiguous.
We find out that Wood is the son of the Slayer Spike killed in NYC. No real surprise there but it's still well done. What will he do with the information the First gives him?

 

[Grace]

Empty Places

Blargh.

 

[Mylie]

Dirty Girls

Faith is back!!! Okay so this isn't an extraordinary episode, but I love it! I think a big part of why I enjoy it so much is that Faith's presence brought some much needed life to the season 7. Every single one of her interactions with other characters were interesting to watch.

I love protective Dawn and the way she kept looking at Faith. It was endearing! And Dawn's face at the end when she looks at Buffy. I wish she had hugged her or something.

Xander's speech about Buffy warmed my heart.

Caleb is such a frightening and hateful villain. That was very much needed at this point in the season.

Every Fuffy scene was fun to watch. They have such an interesting dynamic in s7. There's a lot of history there but they're also a bit strangers to each other at this point.

Buffy/SMG looked so gorgeous in this episode? Especially the scene where she punched Faith. And of course Faith/Eliza always looks hot!

I feel a lot for Buffy in this episode. We know how much pressure she has on her and how easy it is for her to feel responsible whenever someone is killed under her watch. So this episode has a lot that makes me happy but it also makes me incredibly sad. And of course Xander losing an eye is also part of that. But I think where that episode works is that there are some real consequences and we feel like the stakes are really getting higher.

Overall, an episode I very much enjoy but I attribute it to my own bias so I struggled ranking it. But here...

My ranking :
Selfless
Same Time, Same Place
Dirty Girls
Lessons
Storyteller
Potential
Conversations With Dead People
Him
Never Leave Me
Showtime
Bring On the Night
Help
The Killer In Me
First Date
Sleeper
Lies My Parents Told Me
Get it Done
Beneath You

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Dirty Girls:

The episode starts off with Summer!!! She is the love of my life. (From the OC) 🙂 Xander's fantasy is funny if a little creepy.

Spike and Faith - seriously listen I don't ship them, I think Faith needs something else. But in terms of chemistry, they - the actors and the characters seem to have some good chemistry. It teeters on a little TOO much of the bad boy/bad girl thing which gets a little close to over the top. But their banter is fun to watch.

Faith is a breath of fresh air in this season. She's kinda funny. She's like 'listen I know ya'll hate me but it is what it is.' And when she fights Caleb she has some banter which isn't something we see much anymore from Buffy. I appreciate how at this point she is falling in line with Buffy. She wants to be there to provide muscle but isn't interested in taking the reigns.

Andrew and the vulcan thing is hilarious.

Buffy to Wood: "As far as I'm concerned we're on even ground." Umm what?? He got his ass handed to him and almost got killed, his mother's memory was dragged through the mud and then Buffy told him that she would let him die if Spike wanted to kill him and they are cool?? Gotta say Wood's a much more forgiving guy than me. I guess its all about the mission. Good for him. There is a theme this season, that we'll see again of the writers magically resolving conflict so that it doesn't interfere with the story. This is an example of that.

Xander's speech is very moving. I've seen it plenty of times before (this is one of the only episode of s7 I tend to rewatch often because I enjoy it) so now that I've heard it so many times I'm not so emotional especially since I know what's around the corner. But its such a Joss thing to do to set someone up to be so supportive of Buffy and her plan and then he is the one who pays the biggest price. I can't watch the Xander eye thing - I have a thing with eyes. Yuck yuck yuck. Poor Xander 🙁

Buffy being jealous is funny. I relate to it I guess. And she is always pretty jealous when it comes to Faith. I think its an interesting character read and speaks a great deal to their dynamic. I love her face when Faith says she had a mind walk through Angel's mind lol. Call back to Earshot when Buffy was trying to get into Angel's mind to figure out what he thought about Faith (so it does seem ironic).

You know, not too much happens in this episode. It feels like it goes very quickly. It's a lot of catching up I guess? But at the end of it, everything sucks.

Oh, I guess I should talk about Caleb. He's fine. He annoys me because its just so "hit me over the head with the theme of this season" and the metaphors have become so glaringly obvious with Caleb speeches that it's not my personal brand of scotch. I think it lacks a subtlety.

 

[Mylie]

Buffy being jealous is funny. I relate to it I guess. And she is always pretty jealous when it comes to Faith. I think its an interesting character read and speaks a great deal to their dynamic. I love her face when Faith says she had a mind walk through Angel's mind lol. Call back to Earshot when Buffy was trying to get into Angel's mind to figure out what he thought about Faith (so it does seem ironic).

Shamelessly doing some self-promo here but...

Earshot (3x18) / Dirty Girls (7x18) - Buffy, Angel and Co.

That's always been one of my fav little callback moments.

oh, the gifset doesn,t show like it usually does... I guess that's part of the maintenance thing.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Week Nine:
Finishing strong with the last three episodes:
Touched
End of Days
Chosen

Finale Group Watch
We would like to invite you all to join us on March 18, 2018 to watch End of Days and Chosen (back to back) with us on Rabb.it. It's a pretty simple process. I will come here on the time we agree on March 18 and I will post the link to the live feed room. You simply have to sign up with an email and you can join the group (you can go now and sign up if you want). It allows you to chat, voice chat, or video chat (whichever you are comfortable with). I think I am only allowed to invite up to 9 people in my "room" so it is first come, first serve (although there aren't that many of us doing this re-watch so we should be fine). If you only want to join up to watch Chosen I will post the two start viewing times so you can join us for the later one. Just keep checking this thread for updates.

In terms of time for the group watch, we have some differing schedules and so I'm giving two options. For those interested in joining please respond to this thread and let me know which of the following times work best for you on March 18 and we will pick a time based on responses:

(1) 12 CST/1 EST/6 CST
(2) 5 CST/6 EST/11 CST

 

[Mylie]

I'm going to sound like an idiot, but I can never understand the times thing... can someone tell me what those 2 choices are for New York time?
 
Thanks @dcai0830 !

6pm for me then!