Buffy & Giles in Season 7

[Gideon]

My singular (but massive) complaint with season seven is the way that Joss and co. managed the relationship between Buffy and Giles.

It turned a touching, if complicated father-daughter connection into a disastrous, embittered affair.

"Lies My Parents Told Me" really brought out a side of Buffy I didn't like. In "Passions," Buffy accepted that Giles had a right to kill Angel. Why? Because he was a threat. Spike is in a similar situation here and yet the fact that he's killing people isn't an issue?

It was a tremendous hypocrisy. While obviously killing Spike is not what I wanted to happen, I completely understand Giles wanting to kill him.

That whole situation practically destroyed their friendship, which is very sad.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I don't think Buffy was the only person at fault, but I agree. Season 7 destroyed the father-daughter relationship. Granted, people outgrow their parents, but they don't always lose that closeness. I can sort of see why they did it--Buffy had to be completely alone and then CHOOSE to share her power, just as the other girls CHOSE to become Slayers--but I think (like most things in S7) it wasn't handled as well as it could have been.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I agree; I hated the turn they chose to take with Buffy and Giles' relationship in S7. What BB said about outgrowing a parent is true, but after all Buffy and Giles had been through together, I couldn't believe she couldn't try harder to respect and understand his feelings about Spike. It broke my heart to see where they ended up. 🙁

 

[Tasha]

yeah it looked like Giles was being the bad guy n all, Buffy was a bit stubborn to him, i never liked the way it ended up between them.

i also agree with BB, i think they done tht in purpose for Buffy to be independant and be alone for a bit.

 

[Flannen]

Well, considering that Buffy/Giles is what I love most about the show, then yeah, I completely agree. And, as Giles is my favourite character, I am so taking his side. Haha.

I think Buffy was disrespectful, ungrateful and a complete ass for how she treated Giles in Season 7. After everything he had done for her, as a watcher, a friend, a father, stepping in to help her out financially, I was actually livid.

I've heard a few people mention that they don't like Giles for what he did in 'Lies My Parents Told Me' and with no disrespect most of those people's favourite character is Spike, so I can see why. However, Giles has very rarely, if ever
made a choice to harm/kill anyone without reason, no matter how much he hated them. And why Buffy decided to interpret this this way, I don't know.

I started getting annoyed with how she treated Giles from season 6 when he said he was going to leave. She behaved like an immature brat and it really got under my skin.

But, yeah I was really upset to see it went this way.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Buffy had to be completely alone and then CHOOSE to share her power

I disagree with you there; Buffy did not CHOOSE to share her power. The only other option was to die. As Buffy didnt' choose to accept the Shadowpeoples gift, it left her no option but to share her power. If there was an actual choice in the matter (granted death is a choice per se but..) I could agree. But come on- she disliked Faith because Faith was a Slayer; she disliked Kendra because she was a Slayer. There is no way, as egotistical as Buffy was, that given an option she would share her power.

 

[captain peroxide]

The thing is,buffy was always alone.Ok she had the scoobs,but she was the one with the real power.And because of that she thought she was better than them,as anya put it,"You really do think your better than us.But we dont actually know that.Sure being the slayer gave you certain advantage..............etc".I was glad they pulled her down a peg,she was getting big headed.
As for giles trying to kill spike,or get him killed rather,he was right to do so,the first could have used him to kill buffy.
But i thought spike Vs woods was Friggin Awsome.
Trying to kill spike off,riiiiiiiiight,that'll work.Woods was crap,and never had the measure of spike.
Faith,oh faith.Thats one sexy badass momma.
My favourite quote is,Buffy:To ghost's in basement"Again,wrong sister.I'm the one who dates dead guys,and no offence,they were hotties"

 

[Blondie Bear]

I disagree with you there; Buffy did not CHOOSE to share her power. The only other option was to die. As Buffy didnt' choose to accept the Shadowpeoples gift, it left her no option but to share her power. If there was an actual choice in the matter (granted death is a choice per se but..) I could agree. But come on- she disliked Faith because Faith was a Slayer; she disliked Kendra because she was a Slayer. There is no way, as egotistical as Buffy was, that given an option she would share her power.

She could very well have hauled all those girls down there into the Hellmouth with her and Faith the only powerful ones. In any other season, she'd have done it. Or sent the girls away and gone in herself. Yeah, she probably would have died. I think she would have been okay with that. But this time, she chose not to lock everyone else out, to share the power, and to accept their help. I think there's more of a choice there than you're seeing. 🙂

 

[Skanky Vamp]

She could very well have hauled all those girls down there into the Hellmouth with her and Faith the only powerful ones.

But sweety, thats what she WAS going to do... until she discovered she could, yet again, pimp out Willow. It was no choice, it was about survival and more importantly winning.

I think there's more of a choice there than you're seeing.

I think there's less of a choice there than you're seeing.
And since I am rubber and you're glue...

 

[LadyLavinia]

My singular (but massive) complaint with season seven is the way that Joss and co. managed the relationship between Buffy and Giles.

It turned a touching, if complicated father-daughter connection into a disastrous, embittered affair.

"Lies My Parents Told Me" really brought out a side of Buffy I didn't like. In "Passions," Buffy accepted that Giles had a right to kill Angel. Why? Because he was a threat. Spike is in a similar situation here and yet the fact that he's killing people isn't an issue?

It was a tremendous hypocrisy. While obviously killing Spike is not what I wanted to happen, I completely understand Giles wanting to kill him.

That whole situation practically destroyed their friendship, which is very sad.

Does anyone have any idea what feminine empowerment means? Or what it had to do with Buffy?

Why do fans insist that Buffy's relationship with Giles remain as it had been in the past? That would have been impossible, considering that Buffy was becoming an adult. I have rarely come across a parent/child or mentor/protegee relationship that remains the same.

Also, the breakup of Giles and Buffy's relationship seemed foreshadowed in episodes like "Helpless", "The Gift" and especially "Restless". Some fans have detected this. Yet, many others have not, insisting that Buffy remain dependent upon Giles as an authority figure.

But sweety, thats what she WAS going to do... until she discovered she could, yet again, pimp out Willow. It was no choice, it was about survival and more importantly winning.

They made the choice to follow Buffy to the Hellmouth, she didn't force them. I doubt that Buffy could have forced them, anyway. I'm only wondering if Buffy had given the new Slayers, post-"Chosen" the choice to embrace the Slayer lifestyle, or did she make the same mistake as the Watcher's Council by bullying or coercing them to do it.

 

[Flannen]

Does anyone have any idea what feminine empowerment means? Or what it had to do with Buffy?

Why do fans insist that Buffy's relationship with Giles remain as it had been in the past? That would have been impossible, considering that Buffy was becoming an adult. I have rarely come across a parent/child or mentor/protegee relationship that remains the same.

Also, the breakup of Giles and Buffy's relationship seemed foreshadowed in episodes like "Helpless", "The Gift" and especially "Restless". Some fans have detected this. Yet, many others have not, insisting that Buffy remain dependent upon Giles as an authority figure..

I may well have got the wrong end of the stick here, but I don't think that Giles, in any way shape or form, is a symbol of patriarchy, nor does Buffy and Giles' relationship suggest that Buffy is a weak female.

And I have to disagree that 'Helpless' was a foreshadow of the deterioration of their relationship. For me it was a massive turning point, something which made them even stronger. It was at this point in the series that Giles put Buffy before everything else that he once stood for.

I don't insist that Buffy should stay dependent upon Giles as an authority figure, despite the fact that in the instances you suggest, Giles was in fact right. But as a father figure? She should never have thrown that back in his face, and certainly not for Spike, or Angel, or anyone for that matter.

 

[white avenger]

In Season 7, Giles fell victim to the same malady that many parents suffer: They refuse to accept the fact that their children have not only grown up and no longer need help in making decisions, but that in addition, it is the child who is now the one in charge. Giles illustrated on several occasions, culminating in his conspiracy with Wood to kill Spike, that he neither could nor would accept either the fact that it was Buffy who was now completely in charge, or that she would no longer depend on him to make all of the major decisions dealing with her business (fighting demons) or her personal life, most notably her trust and defense of Spike. That refusal to accept the fact that "his little girl" was now an adult, perfectly capable of making her own decisions, almost certainly destroyed the relationship that they had formed over the previous 7 years. Or, to quote someone much closer to the situation, "She surpassed him, and he couldn't handle it." The former leader is now simply the adviser, and it took Buffy slamming a door in his face to convince him of it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

They made the choice to follow Buffy to the Hellmouth, she didn't force them.

Understood, but I think at that point, after not believing her initially and then Faith going boom on them, they would have followed her anywhere regardless. They didnt follow because they were "chosen" they followed because Buffy was the leader. Just like Xander was a good little lapdog that tried to take Dawn out of town, regardless if he wanted to stay and fight or not.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think we have accidentally hijacked this thread just a little. Sorry, Gideon! And Scrubs, I think this is another thing we'll have to agree to disagree on. 😉

So back on topic, I don't think the schism in the Buffy-Giles relationship was down to female vs. patriarchy. The Council was a good metaphor for patriarchy, true, and Giles stood on Buffy's side whenever there was a disagreement with them. I think it was the parent-child relationship, and at some point, they had to grow apart. I guess I would just rather that they'd grown into friends and equals rather than bickering and at odds.

 

[Fresley4ever]

I agree. I hated that to. They had a father daughter relationship. Why one earth did they have to ruin it?

 

[patriot1123]

I know this thread has been dormant for a while but I had to comment. I just finished season 7 for the first time last night. I'm furious with the writers for what they did to Giles in season 7. Not only did they ruin the father-daughter relationship with Buffy, but they also made Giles basically completely irrelevant. Why waste such a good character (and such a talented actor)?

"I used to be a highly respected Watcher. Now I'm a wounded dwarf with the mystical strength of a doily."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[thunderhawk86]

I agree with LadyLavinia, "The Gift" is where the cracks definitely start to form. From then on both Buffy and Giles were responsible. If Giles would have been more forceful in talking to Buffy to shoulder more responsibilities then he wouldn't have needed to leave for Buffy to stand on her own. If Buffy had shown more of an effort in the first place Giles wouldn't have needed to go.

However, at the end of season 7 it looked like it was being repaired when Buffy specifically asked Giles what he thought of her plan. But I guess season 8 changed that.

 

[Carrrrgh]

I was too very disappointed in the way the relationships all fell apart in the series, mostly Giles and Buffy. They were like father and daughter and I didn't see anything wrong with that type of relationship and I didn't understand who Giles wanted to leave 🙁 I mean I get it, why he wanted to leave, but I love Giles he should never leave 🙂

 

[patriot1123]

However, at the end of season 7 it looked like it was being repaired when Buffy specifically asked Giles what he thought of her plan. But I guess season 8 changed that.

I agree, and believe that was intentional (if too little, too late). There was a significance in the look that Buffy gave Giles when she said she "very much" wanted his opinion, and in the lingering, and acknowledging, smile that he gave her back.

I'm not familiar with the comic books. I'll read them someday if I get time. I do know what happens in issue 39 though. :-(

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 PM ----------

I was too very disappointed in the way the relationships all fell apart in the series, mostly Giles and Buffy. They were like father and daughter and I didn't see anything wrong with that type of relationship and I didn't understand who Giles wanted to leave 🙁 I mean I get it, why he wanted to leave, but I love Giles he should never leave 🙂

We know that Anthony wanted to spend more time with his family, but it left a very difficult situation for the writers, because in all honesty it was not believable that he would leave Buffy -- especially after all she had been through.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I really did expect season 7 to bring back the incredibly strong trust and friendship Buffy and Giles used to have. This is one of the reasons I didn't think season 7 wasn't that great