Buffy Season 11 is coming....

Nah I stick to the comics. I have this pathetic hope that I might get surprised (positively) even if it's per accident. I get why many BtVS- , in particular Willow fans dropped out after S09/Wonderland though; with its rough narrative and the simplification of her character and albeit S10 wasn't anti-Willow, it was barely-Willow instead. The comics are really cheap so money isn't an issue...

I'd like to cheer for Willow's announced "juicy" role in S11. However, she's supposed to be the leader of a wiccan community at the beginning of the season. Hmmm... the establishment of said community could have been plot in S10, instead of joining the military that turned out to be hot air anyway... just saying.

Does it really matter what they say anymore? Wasn't Buffy supposed to grow up this season? Did that happen?

Do I sense sarcasm?😛
 
Carrie Hopewell
Carrie Hopewell
Sarcasm? What?! Of course not ;)
The comment was meant as a simple joke.

But very much audience pov dependent for seeing the funny I'd suggest. Someone who is pro Spuffy or is a Spike fan who sees great changes in him souled predictably wouldn't see it as such but more an unfair dig, wether light heartedly put or not.

The main thing that bothers me about Spuffy is that's it's utterly boring and unequal. Buffy doesn't have a partner that will stand up for themselves.

I mean he even failed to break up with her! That's how whupped he is. Imagine this:

Heartbreaking sewer talk No. 1 in The Prom:
Buffy: (plaintive) I want my life to be with you.
Angel: (coldly) I don't.
Buffy: (pouting and stomping her foot) Well I do!
Angel (meekly) Okay then.

I think that is ridiculous personally. It is a totally different situation to that with Angel and as such there is little value in comparing them really. Angel was leaving because he felt it was the right choice for himself and for Buffy. Spike was considering breaking up with Buffy because he is insecure and is worried that it will all go wrong and they will lose their friendship/working relationship completely. Just because he was reassured by her response doesn't mean he was whupped into staying with her against his will.

Spike didn't change enough when he got a soul, which is his main problem.

Very much disagree. Spike is as altered as Angel is, it is just less melodramatic. And I can't believe anyone would watch S6 and then S7 and seriously see the same character and not notice any of the differences in his reservations, emotional breadth and perspective. Heck, half of the complaints I read about him in the comics is because he isn't essentially behaving as he did when he was unsouled. But by the verse structure with souls he is fundamentally different in a way that, for example, Faith or Andrew are not.
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
[No message]
I actually enjoyed S10. I have some criticism, but overall it was much better than S9. I liked the gang living in one building.
 
But very much audience pov dependent for seeing the funny I'd suggest.

Well, since the 'audience' would be the person I was replying to that kinda settles it. I'm not responsible on how YOU take my comments to somebody else. And quite frankly I couldn't care less.

I think that is ridiculous personally.

Fair enough.
I would say that the facts/downfalls of dating a vampire do not change no matter how old you are. Most of the things that can be applied to Angel's relationship with Buffy can be applied to Spike- practically speaking. He's a vampire, he had doubts about his relationship brought about by events that he went through in S10, he spoke of those in an articulate manner and Buffy basically blew them off and Spike- as his way- caved to what Buffy wants.

'Own It', yep, that about sums it up.

Very much disagree.

Again that's your opinion but up until S7 a soul seemed to have weight, as did the evil things one person inflicts upon another.
That all changed thanks to Spike (and Anya as well).

Spike pretty much acts the same after 'Get It Done', he's an amazingly shallow character. But I'm sure you'll disagree.
 
Well, since the 'audience' would be the person I was replying to that kinda settles it. I'm not responsible on how YOU take my comments to somebody else. And quite frankly I couldn't care less.

Ha, you're posting on a public board not having a private conversation. Consideration of how the wider audience to your posts may react should occur to you, even if you choose to post anyway.

I would say that the facts/downfalls of dating a vampire do not change no matter how old you are. Most of the things that can be applied to Angel's relationship with Buffy can be applied to Spike- practically speaking. He's a vampire, he had doubts about his relationship brought about by events that he went through in S10, he spoke of those in an articulate manner and Buffy basically blew them off and Spike- as his way- caved to what Buffy wants.

But he didn't cave to what she wanted, he didn't want to break up with her but was worried that it was inevitable. The issues between vamp/human haven't changed but that doesn't mean they aren't choosing to give it a go and see if any of those issues become something that breaks them up or if the good they feel they have overrules the problems. That was Buffy's point and what persuaded Spike to give it a go too. If you think he really wanted to break up with her I suggest you have missed the repeats on his insecurities and worries about when the other shoe will drop for her already set up on repeat in the season.

Again that's your opinion but up until S7 a soul seemed to have weight, as did the evil things one person inflicts upon another.
That all changed thanks to Spike (and Anya as well).

Spike pretty much acts the same after 'Get It Done', he's an amazingly shallow character. But I'm sure you'll disagree.

The same as what? He sacrificed himself for the wider world in Chosen, something soulless Spike would never have done. He was willing to do that again in NFA. Spike cared a great deal about the evil that he has done but he looks forward to the good that he can do rather than focussing on the past which Angel does. But guilt/redemption are Angel's focus and that is totally logical with his upbringing. The two vamps have very different stories. And of course I don't agree with you. I think Spike is one of the most complex and developed characters of the verse, but mileage varies etc.
 
Ha, you're posting on a public board not having a private conversation. Consideration of how the wider audience to your posts may react should occur to you, even if you choose to post anyway.

Yes, thank you for explaining to me about the board works.

I told you it was a joke and that should've been an end to it you chose to keep harping on about it. That's your choice but a more polite response would've been maybe to accept what I said and move on?
But maybe that's asking too much.

But he didn't cave to what she wanted, he didn't want to break up with her but was worried that it was inevitable.

It seems inevitable enough to me; he's a vampire and she's a slayer and all the things he said still apply. Maybe if s10 Buffy was as grown up as S3/4 Buffy she might realize this as well but comics Buffy is a different beast entirely it seems.

If you think he really wanted to break up with her I suggest you have missed the repeats on his insecurities and worries about when the other shoe will drop for her already set up on repeat in the season.

No, all I saw is that a plot that ultimately went nowhere and a relationship that is boring as all get-out.

The same as what?

The hair, the tude, the accent, the murder-coat, etc.
His motivation is still (mostly) Buffy. I will give you he changed on Angel but then reverted back what he was before when he's around her.

Spike with a soul would've happily died for Buffy in S5, all that changed post-soul is that he put on an amulet and realized that Buffy didn't love him.
That's not much of a distinction to be honest.

Spike cared a great deal about the evil that he has done

Uh, 'You like men who hurt you', 'I don't give a piss about your Mum', 'I don't give a rat's arse about atonement'? He said and meant these things.
He cares that he hurt Buffy because he loves her/wants things from her, but not really about anything else.
'Damage' changes this a little bit but even then its qualified with 'I was a victim too'.

I mean he's still doing it, he blames him Mum in S10 for his behavior. It's never his fault.
 
Can we keep this thread relatively on topic about the forthcoming S11, and not about Spuffy seasons-past and how we may or may not feel about Spuffy seasons-past?

Can we also be a little bit nicer to each other too? Jokes are only jokes if the other person sees it as a joke, these things are easily misconstrued in written form, so please, let's stop the sarcastic comments, agree to disagree, and move on.
 
Yes, thank you for explaining to me about the board works.

I told you it was a joke and that should've been an end to it you chose to keep harping on about it. That's your choice but a more polite response would've been maybe to accept what I said and move on?
But maybe that's asking too much.

I wasn't looking to harp on about it and there was no intention to be impolite, I was just explaining why I had taken the comment at face value, different perspectives and all that. And I'm more than happy to move on.

The hair, the tude, the accent, the murder-coat, etc.
His motivation is still (mostly) Buffy. I will give you he changed on Angel but then reverted back what he was before when he's around her.

A lot of his behaviour on Angel was regressive and defensive. Although he did make some progress towards being independent and starting to come to terms with being a souled demon it drifted somewhat in the second half of the season and he just fell in line with Angel's choices despite having disagreed prior to Fred's death. His time in AtS 5 was seriously mixed overall, probably because of the network insisting on shoehorning him in throughout.

I can't see why Spike's accent or hair should be distinguishers between being souled or unsouled? As he learnt himself you can't just put on a blue shirt and feel distinct from your past. Whereas the coat Spike had abandoned because of the connections and when he wore it again it was specifically to force himself to reconnect to a side of himself he didn't feel as comfortable with anymore. Of course that only came after Buffy had pressed him about not being as useful as he could/should be in the fight. His crass upset over the coat in AtS 5 then makes sense, he would hardly admit to Angel that he was worried he wouldn't be any use in the fight without his 'costume' keeping him in character/connected to being a fighter. He was a lot more withdrawn in S7 and less brash and we saw him broken up about what he had done to people in Never Leave Me, unsouled he hadn't cared less about past victims. And Spike didn't have to stay and die in Chosen, he could have left with Buffy, he'd already saved her, he stayed and died for the multitude of people in the world he didn't give a personal rat's about. That choice was his, as was choosing to potentially lose the chance of recorporealisation to save Fred, to name just a couple of distinct actions once newly souled that were for others.

Yes he can be nasty for sure, what he says in anger towards people is often vicious/uncalled for/deliberately aiming to hurt. He doesn't let many people close and fears being weak and being seen as such. The blame he directed at his fake mother was an interesting reaction to having become a monster and being so naive about the world. Emotional responses about something intense are often not fair or reasoned. Both Angel and Spike were deliberately goading each other during their fight in Damage and trying to say things to affect/upset the other. But I saw their conversation at the end as acknowledging they both were victims when they were turned, but that you do then have to live with what you become.

It is all given such depth by everything that we see past and current and I love the coherency in his story. The detail both vamps' stories are given from all the scaffolding for their attitudes/characters is one of the reasons they are favourite characters for me. Angel has issues from his human days that affect him still and his ongoing hang ups result in moments of cruelty souled too. And that is because a soul doesn't make someone a saint, which was kind of my original point. The actions of the humans who go off the rails and are bad guys makes the soul issue more grey than the vamps ever do because something specific and actual about them changes them with the introduction of the soul. Heck as the whole point of Spike's realisation is that he can't walk the line as a demon without a soul. The humans, as Angel pointed out to Faith, have full breadth of emotions and empathy and have a level of choice he/Spike didn't acting as soulless demons, and when the humans are looking to atone they are fundamentally the same person who chose to commit the crimes, Spike and Angel are not.
 
A mod has already asked you to keep to the thread topic, please respect that instead of trying to get a last word in.

To bring it back to this new season I think it sounds like a good idea that it's just going to be a 12 issue run. It's a bit like tv-shows nowadays with 10 episode seasons, it's more fast-paced and compact, less time for filler "episodes". Sometimes that helps the story I think, helps keep it alive. It also might help the not-die-hard fans to follow the seasons arc if it's a little bit shorter. 🙂
 
Sorry I've just read on and seen Athena's post.

@thetopher - I find it really interesting to hear different perspectives and perhaps a thread about the meaning of a soul would be an option to continue discussing it. If you don't wish to however, fair enough. I'm honestly not looking for a row, just interested to hear alternative points of view.
 
Christos has given a further interview about Season 11...

SDCC: "Buffy Season 11" Welcomes Gage Back For Joss Whedon's Yearlong Epic
 
really concerned at first for twelve issues... but i think it could be a good thing. it keeps the story focused, and i think having too many side stories in the comics dont work very well. season 8 had too many arcs and failed to give twilight a strong, concrete arc that was thought out. there were some strong moments introducing him, but the overall impact was unfelt because of how scattered it was. i thought simone had a better presence, very happy that she was the big bad for s9... but s9 was scattered too, in the sense of all the side stories/titles... so s11 brings us less scatter and more focus. i just hope willow and spike's arcs aren't overwhelming to the overall 'epic' main arc.

i love spuffy, always will, but i like that even joss approved but only because it would make buffy more uncomfortable. a rocky relationship is still more exciting than bangel, but hopefully its better executed than s10 so far. not impressed with every ex coming out of the blue or every issue they ever had surfacing all at once without being honestly addressed, or the good moments being ignored(think chosen s7).

one thing about s11 im really curious about is the big bang we'll get early on rather than establishing a big bad throughout the season. i dont recall buffy doing this before? at first i thought well, s8 and s9 really dealt with consequences of buffy's decisions... but the article i read said the scoobies would deal with the aftermath of a situation they failed to stop. that i find original in the buffyverse, and the comics need that.
 
I should get back into it too! 12 issue? Isn't that a lot less than previous seasons?
Do you have the comics? I was thinking about getting the digital copies on my tablet to read.
 
Do you have the comics? I was thinking about getting the digital copies on my tablet to read.

Only season 8 and like 4 issues of s9. How much are the digital copies? I might invest in it if they have like a package deal!
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
Ya true. But i like you're digital better so i can read it wherever
Only season 8 and like 4 issues of s9. How much are the digital copies? I might invest in it if they have like a package deal!
Never mind. It's expensive for the digital copies. $9.99 for the first 5 of s8. I'll check it out on Amazon then.
 
Blaze
Blaze
Dam, ya that's not worth it, I'm sure the paper copy would be way cheaper now!
"SDCC: Conversations With Joss Whedon"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...th-joss-whedon

"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Firefly" creator Joss Whedon -- you may also know him as the writer/director of Marvel Studios' "Avengers" and "Avengers: Age of Ultron" -- addressed the Hall H crowd Friday afternoon at Comic-Con International in San Diego, in the "Conversations with Joss Whedon" panel presented by Dark Horse Comics, the publisher of "Buffy" and "Serenity" comic books.

Whedon admitted to the audience that it's been something of a "slow year" for him, creative output-wise, but did start the panel with some news: That he'd be co-writing a Dark Horse miniseries about Giles (currently de-aged to 13) going back to school. "In a fit of class, I'm not calling it '21 Vamp Street,'" Whedon said. Whedon also said he's finishing his folk album with Shawnee Kilgore, because he wants "to make even less money than comic book people."

Turning quickly to fan questions, an audience member asked Whedon if he ever considered writing a story focusing on slayer Nikki Wood. Whedon expressed his enthusiasm for the character, but said at this point he'd like to focus on "moving forward," given how he's spent a lot of time recently working on adaptations of things that have been around for a long time -- and at this point, the "Buffy" characters fall under the category of "something that's been around for a long time."

A fan asked for Whedon's favorite death scene -- both created by him, and other people. "Gosh, so many to choose from," Whedon replied. "Nothing's going to come close to the experience of killing Fred [in "Angel"]... it's like Jeffrey Dahmer's up here. I'm a good person, I swear!"

"The scene itself was really exciting," Whedon continued. "I love Alexis [Denisof] and Amy [Acker]. They were just acting their hearts out. At the end of that whole day was just them in her bedroom as she's getting sicker and sicker, and finally dying in his arms." Whedon said after a draining day of shooting that scene, the three of them went out for a drink, and just sat silently. "And that's how I came up with the Avengers tag."

His favorite death scene from something else? "The Wild Bunch."

An independent filmmaker asked Whedon for advice about getting funding for his projects. "I have no idea," Whedon answered. "Beyond that, right now, I think it's enormously difficult," he said, because "trying something new" isn't a big part of the current culture. "Right now it's, find a brand name that people already know. We've got to a state where the studios are pretty relentless about just having an in before they even start a project. That's not the case with all films, but it is for a ton of them."

Whedon talked about the new Giles comic a bit. "Giles is, as you know, 12, that's why we're sending him back to school, to see it from the other side for a while," Whedon said. "And it will be hilarious, we hope."

When asked wows him in an actor's audition, Whedon said it's a combination of being "enormously grounded and completely chaotic... and also if they can just walk in and be Amy Acker, that helps their cause a lot."

What are the "first few steps" when Whedon gets an idea? "I fall to the ground and weep, and thank all the gods I had another one, because they don't come as fast as they used to," he replied, adding that the best part is the first spark of a new idea. "There's a point where your internal monologue becomes a dialogue. And that's just transcendent. I have the best job in the world."

Whedon gave an update on a "Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog" sequel: He said they all want to do it, but his collaborators -- Zack Whedon, Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon -- are all busy, especially Jed Whedon and Tancharoen. "They are busy running a show that I am executive figurehead of," Whedon said, alluding to "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." But the desire to do it is there, along with another musical project.

A fan asked if Whedon had any ideas of crossovers between his creations and other properties he's worked on. Whedon pointed out that he wanted to playfully tease a connection between Buffy Summer and Scott Summers during his "Astonishing X-Men" run, and that there's something of a Wolfram & Hart reference in Thor's dream sequence in "Avengers: Age of Ultron" -- but ultimately, "I don't like to become too self-indulgent with these things, because at some point it becomes about me, taking my dolls and putting them on top of each other."

Whedon's favorite Big Bad in "Buffy"? He picked The Mayor from season three.

An audience member asked about Whedon's approach to structure when writing. Whedon said he basically writes the hero's journey -- "somebody on a journey to power, or somebody who's dealing with the power they have." Whedon praised the film "Bone Tomahawk" as "criminally underrated," and a good example of, "There are no rules. If you're going on the journey, you can take it wherever you want."

What TV did Whedon watch during his year off? "The Great British Bake Off," "Unreal," "Peaky Blinders" and "Supergirl."

On killing off characters -- something Whedon is fairly infamous for -- he said that when people are upset about it, it's a good thing, because it means the characters meant something to them, which is the goal.

"In my experience, things are taken suddenly from you," Whedon continued. "To see that happen on a fictional level is my way of dealing with it, and helping people deal with it when it happens to them."

Whedon clarified that the new "Dr. Horrible" project is indeed a sequel, not a prequel, picking up with the title character as "the king."

Chance of doing more "Fray"? "I'm always hoping to do more 'Fray,'" Whedon said. "That was my first comic ever. Karl Moline did such a great job. Something I'd probably rather have a great idea for and have someone else do, because of that whole 'trying to do a new thing.' But I think she deserves more, and there's more to say."

Whedon mentioned that he's currently working on a film, and that when he's done with the script he expects the studios to gather for a "bidding war/intervention."

A fan asked about the status of the "Angel and Faith" comic book. "'Angel' is coming back," Whedon said. "We're working it out. It's going to be staggered. It's not going to come out the same time as 'Buffy,' it's going to be a little bit later, probably close to the new year. Angel will have his comic again -- probably not with Faith this time around, just to do something a little different."

"I will always come out of these things understanding something better than I did," Whedon said, of the questions asked during his panels. This led to the last question o the session: "What are some tropes that are used constantly that you despise?" "I don't have time to go into all the cliches that I have both reviled and occasionally used," Whedon said. "Hopefully the next thing I do -- that I will be talking to you about in a year's time -- will be a decidedly new version of the story I keep trying to tell."

In short:

"Angel" will be back, probably without Faith. That's good, it means Angel won't be in BtVS. No further word about Faith, however, that's bad.

Giles gets his own mini-series. He goes back to school and Whedon hopes it will be hilarious... Can't say that I'm overly excited. So far, Giles resurrection seems utterly wasted and A&F S09 appears more and more absurd in hindsight.

According to Whedon's word, the recent character death might be permanent.
 
"Angel" will be back, probably without Faith. That's good, it means Angel won't be in BtVS. No further word about Faith, however, that's bad.

Giles gets his own mini-series. He goes back to school and Whedon hopes it will be hilarious... Can't say that I'm overly excited. So far, Giles resurrection seems utterly wasted and A&F S09 appears more and more absurd in hindsight.

According to Whedon's word, the recent character death might be permanent.

Thanks for posting this, really interesting stuff. I am happy that Angel is coming back, but I hope Faith doesn't just vanish, that would be a mistake. And I certainly hope she isn't killed off

I'd probably buy the Giles mini series, but it doesn't really interest me that much. I prefer Giles the grown man to the teenager, and as an intrinsic part of Buffy, not something separate.

The recent death has to stick, not because I want my favourites to die, but because the whole series becomes meaningless if death can always be overcome.
 
The question is why should he go back to school? Or why would he want to? It's not like he had lost his education. Either he's forced by authorities (veeery unlikely) or it's some kind of undercover operation which we already had with Faith in A&F S10.

Whedon's hope that it will be hilarious speaks rather of a lack of plan what to do with Giles after his resurrection.

Status quo, for now, is that S11 will rather be Buffy, Spike & Willow centered. Less Spuffy, or rather, Spuffy more on a day-to-day basis in the background. Giles gets a minor role because of his mini-series (like Willow in S09) and Andrew gets only a minor role (hopefully) because he's a waste of space. Angel gets his own title back.

Big question marks on Faith, Fred, Xander and Dawn.
 
The question is why should he go back to school? Or why would he want to? It's not like he had lost his education. Either he's forced by authorities (veeery unlikely) or it's some kind of undercover operation which we already had with Faith in A&F S10.
Since he might no longer reach the fairy land to hang out with little girls (because they don't want to side with him), school is his natural second choice.

I found the Faith/kid Giles thing very disturbing, the same as Olivia/kid Giles and fairy gal/kid Giles. But it seems that the writers were determined to explore the hormone part of Giles more.🙁
 
The question is why should he go back to school? Or why would he want to? It's not like he had lost his education. Either he's forced by authorities (veeery unlikely) or it's some kind of undercover operation which we already had with Faith in A&F S10.

Whedon's hope that it will be hilarious speaks rather of a lack of plan what to do with Giles after his resurrection.

Status quo, for now, is that S11 will rather be Buffy, Spike & Willow centered. Less Spuffy, or rather, Spuffy more on a day-to-day basis in the background. Giles gets a minor role because of his mini-series (like Willow in S09) and Andrew gets only a minor role (hopefully) because he's a waste of space. Angel gets his own title back.

Big question marks on Faith, Fred, Xander and Dawn.

Obviously I'm hoping for lots of Spuffy in S11 🙂 Also hope that the Giles series is funny, because I think it's sort of pointless, unless it's a Hogwarts kind of school and he's gone to try and find a way to get back to what he was.

I'd be very happy with less Andrew and a lot more Willow, especially if there is no Xander, because I do worry the writers will try to 'replace' Xander with Andrew, making him more like Xander and that would be horrible. Hopefully Dawn is okay, and Faith shows up now and again. As for Fred, she should have stayed dead, it was a mistake bringing her back, she wasn't needed in Angel & Faith.

But I am looking forward to the new season, I think it'll be interesting
 
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