Buffy & Spike vs Faith & Angel

[white avenger]

I found this thread

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/angel-and-faith-vs-buffy-and-spike-665837/

and thought that it would make an interesting discussion here. Using the rules and conditions as listed here, who walks away smiling?

My money would be on Buffy and Spike. Buffy would take out either Faith or Angel (she's beaten both of them before) while Spike occupies the other, then Buffy and Spike team up to take out the survivor.

An alternate version:

Spike vs Angel: The katana being the superior weapon to the European broadsword (we're talking about universal Hollywood "fact" here), Spike's katana actually shears off the broadsword's blade in a single stroke, then beheads weaponless Angel.

Buffy vs Faith: Closer match, but Buffy's added experience gained while Faith was in prison, effectively on vacation from her Slayer duties gives Buffy the edge. Faith gets the blade in the chest one more time.

 

[ladydorotea]

How about the Buffy and Angel vs Spike and Faith ? Because frankly, when Angel is there Buffy's teaming up with Spike would not last a second. She will switch teams in an eye blink, or at the very least jump in to break the fight. Same goes true about Angel seeing her fighting Faith - he will either try to do his best to stop the fight or switch sides. These two would fight each other alright, but never with these 'other' teammates. (And I don't think Spike ever used swords successfully in non-comic canon, so nyeah for him and katanas.)

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Yeah I dont see spike being capable with a sword.

I dont think it matters that Buffy defeated them both before, it all depends on when this would happen.

If it happens where the characters are now I think Angel beats Spike. Spike beat Angel that one time, but I put that down to Angel not wanting it enough and losing his mission (which is the entire point of that episode) in a regular fight I dont think Spike would win, I dont think he thinks he would either, if he did he would have killed Angelus himself in season 2 instead of going to Buffy, or how Spike couldn't take Angel alone in season 1 of Angel.

Buffys been a bit all over the place lately, whereas Faith has had her act together, so thats a really tough one, I'd prefer for Faith to win (if something has gone down thats separated Faith and Angel vs Spike and Buffy, I just know Spike and Buffy are in the wrong on whatever the issue is), and I think because of where she is at emotionally at the moment she'd have a better focus, not to mention Spike and Angel fighting would throw off Buffy also, so I think Faith could have her.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

I would root for Buffy and Spike, but in Jossverse everything depends on plot demands. Characters' strength and skills are secondary to their emotional journeys.

 

[white avenger]

How about the Buffy and Angel vs Spike and Faith ? Because frankly, when Angel is there Buffy's teaming up with Spike would not last a second. She will switch teams in an eye blink, or at the very least jump in to break the fight. Same goes true about Angel seeing her fighting Faith - he will either try to do his best to stop the fight or switch sides. These two would fight each other alright, but never with these 'other' teammates. (And I don't think Spike ever used swords successfully in non-comic canon, so nyeah for him and katanas.)

As I said originally, the idea came from a thread on another site, but I think that the idea was specifically NOT to pair Buffy and Angel, simply because the general consensus among fandom is that Buffy and Angel are the two superior fighters of the four. Pairing them against Spike and Faith wouldn't be as fair a match up.

Substitute Angelus for Angel, and assume that Faith has gone evil agin if it helps.

And as for expertise with a sword, about all that we've ever seen Angel do with one could hardly be considered skillful either. More like a farmer swinging an axe at a tree.

I didn't make the pairing, and I didn't choose the weapons. I just copied someone else's post.

 

[Robb Stark]

Tough fight. I think all four are excellent fighters and relatively in the same power sphere as one another, so I suppose conditions of the fight would go a long way in determining the winners.

I generally consider Buffy to be the best pure fighter of the four, with Angel a hair behind. Buffy has obviously defeated all three of the others at one time or another, but of the four, I'd rate Faith as the weakest fighter. Spike and Angel(us) have both fought Buffy to draws or to a place where they would have won had outside circumstances not come into play. That isn't taking anything away from Buffy, but I think it helps in relation to ranking Faith. Despite how big she talks, she's never defeated any of the other three on this list. Buffy and Angel both beat her clean, and Spike, who had taken Angel and Buffy down at one point or another, refuses to really fight her in S7.

So yeah, for me Faith is at the bottom, while Buffy is at the top. That leaves Angel and Spike. I'm giving the slight edge to Angel, but it's close. I feel like if Angel and Spike fought ten times, Angel would win six of them.

Assuming all conditions are equal, and that means the four essentially fight in an empty arena, I'd say Buffy and Spike score the win. But if Angel's fired up, it could go the other way.

 

[Blaze]

My bet would be on whichever team has Buffy. I agree that Angel is most likely the second best fighter (and he's smart), but Buffy here is the only one that has the advantage of having beaten everyone fair and square. When I make up scenarios in my head, I feel that Buffy would win regardless of who she's with.

Of course, it's still somewhat based on luck. Buffy might get a fatal hit let's say 8/10 times (obvs not that high but let's use that as an example), while Faith might get a fatal hit 3/10 times, but Faith might still be able to beat Buffy by sheer luck.

 

[white avenger]

Another thing that would have to be considered is, how well do the two teams work together? Spike has been working with Buffy foe several years. He knows her moves, and she knows his. They would be better able to launch a coordinated attack than Angel and Faith, who have fought together at best only a limited number of times. I think that that would at least neutralize any advantage Angel might or might not have over Spike. All that Spike has to do is keep Angel occupied, but never actually close with him, keeping him too busy to come to Faith's aid until Buffy took her out, then he would have to face both Spike and Buffy. No matter how good Angel is, he couldn't handle both of them at once.

 

[ladydorotea]

Spike has been working with Buffy foe several years. He knows her moves, and she knows his.

Naturally, this is a load of BS. Buffy does not know Spike's 'moves' much, outside of him attacking, well, 'her'. They were never a two-by-two team, as is in the tv series as Spike was always scamp-ing around her periphery without being allowed to actually be her 'partner'. In S5 he did NOT save her, because he was way out of her and Glory's league. In S6 she learned how to beat him bloody. In S7 Buffy was always relying on Scoobies and funnily enough - Faith , in S8 Spike was with the bugs, in S9 Spike managed to spectacularly let Buffy be turned into a bot, then got her jumped by zompire and loose her hand. Hardly a record of coordinated work.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

In "Destiny 5X08" in Angel, Spike and Angel fight for the goblet that supposedly is the Cup of Destiny that will determine which one of them becomes the subject of the Shanshu Prophecy. Spike beats angel and Angel acknowledges the fact later to Wesley.

Buffy has faced Faith before and beat and knifed her into a coma.

No reason to believe any of these things would change.

 

[Xin Rong]

In "Destiny 5X08" in Angel, Spike and Angel fight for the goblet that supposedly is the Cup of Destiny that will determine which one of them becomes the subject of the Shanshu Prophecy. Spike beats angel and Angel acknowledges the fact later to Wesley.

Buffy has faced Faith before and beat and knifed her into a coma.

No reason to believe any of these things would change.

So by that logic, none of the characters have moved past those two respective points, Faith's still an evil killer with a deathwish, Buffy's still heartbroken over Angel, Spike is still to scared to go to buffy and Angel is still wrestling with working for W&H.

Basically, it seems like your saying that nothing has happened since these fights, it's like saying Buffy would lose in a fight against the master because she originally lost a fight against the master, before eventually killing him in a separate fight. Faulty logic!

 

[The Bronze]

(if something has gone down thats separated Faith and Angel vs Spike and Buffy, I just know Spike and Buffy are in the wrong on whatever the issue is)

That's a hell of claim BEG, I hope you're not a betting man! With Angel's attempted apocalypse's and Faith history of instability and murder I wouldn't be so quick to back their judgement over Buffy's. Also Faith and Angel have a history of being easily led by the Big Bad.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

That's a hell of claim BEG, I hope you're not a betting man! With Angel's attempted apocalypse's and Faith history of instability and murder I wouldn't be so quick to back their judgement over Buffy's. Also Faith and Angel have a history of being easily led by the Big Bad.

I honestly can't think of a scenario where Faith and Angel both end up on the wrong side. I'm basing this off where the characters are now.

Faith is so far away from the person she was before, her and Angel have a fantastic friendship, individually they have been steered in the wrong direction in the past, but I think together they work hard to fix each other just being around one another.

I honestly can't say the same for Spike and Buffy, there's no doubt there's a friendship there, but the friendship is based off of Buffy doing whatever she wants and Spike following like a lap dog, it's not an equal friendship. If Buffy is in the wrong on something I can't see Spike correcting her in the same way I could see Angel correcting Faith if she did something wrong or Faith correcting Angel.

I also think that in the hypothetical situation, if Buffy was a little bit in the wrong seeing Faith and Angel working together on the same side opposed to her would blindly drive her further into her cause no matter what is is.

Buffy also has a worse RECENT track record then Faith, since she spent last year robbing banks and stuff

 

[white avenger]

Maybe I should have provided a more detailed explanation when originally posting this thread.

This isn't a character analysis of where any character is, now, or some time in the past. Good and evil and who is which isn't important. This is simply an "X vs Y" match up like Thor vs Superman, Captain America vs Batman, or Buffy vs Vampirella. It doesn't matter who is paired with who or why. It is simply a contest between two pairs of fighters, possessing basically the same powers and weapons. It is not an analysis of the morals, motivations, or choices of partnership of those people. It doesn't matter who is whose friend, who loves who, or who considers who to be either their soul mate or mortal enemy in everyday conditions.

Would the combined fighting abilities and experiences of Buffy and Spike be superior to the combined fighting abilities and experiences of Faith and Angel? Who would make the stronger fighting team?

 

[The Bronze]

I could definitely picture a situation where Buffy is trying to save the world etc but perhaps doesn't have all the information and a fight ensues with Faith and Angel who do have more knowledge of the situation. That's certainly possible in my head but I do think you're a little over confident on Angel and Faith certainly being on the right side against Buffy.

I'd say the reverse situation is more likely with Angel going gung ho into something daft and managing to talk Faith into it, with Buffy left as the voice of reason

 

[janas]

Who would make the stronger fighting team?

There is no doubt. Buffy and Angel.

Together you were powerful. Alone, you are dead.
Mohra demon ~ I Will Remember You (ATS - Season 1)

 

[Kean]

Would the combined fighting abilities and experiences of Buffy and Spike be superior to the combined fighting abilities and experiences of Faith and Angel? Who would make the stronger fighting team?

At this point in time I think Angel and Faith make the better team. Physically speaking, there isn't a huge amount between any of these individuals. But that isn't what makes a superior fighter or team. It's about the partnership. If we are talking about the people that are most together in themselves, who know what they are fighting for, who know who they are to their fighting partner, and are the most in in sync team, then it has to be Angel and Faith.

Buffy and Spike just don't have that. There is so much uncertainty, repressed and hurt feelings and individual doubts involved with them that I just don't see them as partners. During a fight, I could see either one of them going off doing their own thing and endangering the other or their cause. Faith and Angel have worked through that phase and have come out the stronger for it.

 

[The Bronze]

After having a quick look over the rules on that thread I think my money would be on Buffy and Spike and quite comfortably. No souls, morals or loyalty ties being the important conditions for me.

1st scenario

Buffy v Faith - Without the worries of fighting a human I think Buffy defeats Faith quickly and with relative ease.

Angel v Spike - Master versus the apprentice. I think it's strongly implied by Angel after he loses to Spike in the cup fight that they had fought a lot while soulless and that he'd always won. So I make Angel the favourite here. However given that Spike has killed slayers and will be familiar with Angels style I think he lasts a lot longer than Faith. This gives Buffy time to come over for the double team and victory.

2nd scenario

Buffy v Angel - Again given the removal of morals and loyalty I think this is a comfortable win for Buffy.

Faith v Spike - This would be an interesting fight. I'd give Spike a 6/10 edge here. He's handled fights with Buffy better than Faith in the past so I make him favourite. I suspect Buffy would beat Angel quicker than Faith could beat Spike anyway so again a double team and victory at the end for Buffy and Spike.

I'd also point out that a team of soulless Angel and Faith is much less likely to be as cohesive as soulless Spike and Buffy having never fought side by side to the best of my knowledge

 

[janas]

In "Destiny 5X08" in Angel, Spike and Angel fight for the goblet that supposedly is the Cup of Destiny that will determine which one of them becomes the subject of the Shanshu Prophecy. Spike beats angel and Angel acknowledges the fact later to Wesley.

Buffy has faced Faith before and beat and knifed her into a coma.

No reason to believe any of these things would change.

In "Destiny 5x08" in Angel, is sufficiently clear that this was the first and only time that Spike has won a battle against Angel, had never happened before. The whole point of the episode was to demonstrate that Angel had lost hope (Shanshu). In reality, Spike beat a dejected, depressed Angel who wasn't even putting up a great fight. Even puppet Angel has managed to beat Spike. In ATF, a human Angel has beaten Spike twice.

In addition, Angel talked about his fear about the Shanshu with Gunn, not with Wesley, because in that episode he was absent.

 

[brinkster130]

Considering what the characters have been up to lately Angel and Faith get my vote.

I don't think Buffy would defeat Faith as easily everyone seems to think; their fights seemed pretty even until the end.

Another thing that would have to be considered is, how well do the two teams work together? Spike has been working with Buffy foe several years. He knows her moves, and she knows his. They would be better able to launch a coordinated attack than Angel and Faith, who have fought together at best only a limited number of times.

I'd say the exact opposite. Sure Buffy and Spike are still friendly but they aren't really fighting alongside one another as partners these days. Angel and Faith on the other hand have been working and fighting closely together...their team would probably be much more coordinated.