Buffy the Vampire Slayer sequel series nearing pilot order at Hulu, SMG returning!

[TheMaster666]

Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were both before Buffy. Hell Aliens had multiple female characters that were tough like Vasquez.

I agree with you on this bit. Bob Iger admitted in his book that they brought Lucas Sequel Treatments simply so he couldn't film them and he and Disney had no intention of listening to his ideas. They wanted to do Rebellion v Empire and that was it. It's why JJ Abrams was brought in. He'd done it before with Star Trek and he did it with Starwars. It's why TFA is ANH redone. While there most popular TV show was a guy dressed up like Boba Fett with a Baby Yoda toy. Again pure nostalgia bait.

Joss Whedon already did that with the Comics. Hell he already did it with the show itself. He's admitted he had a 5 Yr plan and those last 2 years on UPN were simply because they threw him a load of cash. So let's not pretend Whedon is the auteur who doesn't care about the money.

And what was Sarah Connor in the first Terminator? The damsel in distress who needed to be protected by Kyle Reese. Exactly my point. It wasn't until the 90s that Sarah became this hardened badass. You can point to Aliens, sure, that's one exception to the rule. But it was very uncommon to see women as action heroes in the 80s. That didn't become mainstream until the following decade.

Caring about money doesn't mean he also didn't care about the series. Buffy had a consistently good run from start to finish. I know the more depressing later seasons aren't as fun for some as the high school years because Buffy has to mature up and grow up fast by that point, but I thought they were still narratively strong, except for the series finale which was weak. The Season 5 finale, admittedly probably could've worked better as a series finale. But then Season 6 turned out quite interesting, sooo.

Post automatically merged: Feb 9, 2025

Let’s remember that Sarah had issue with the points of seasons 6 & 7 that are consistently brought up as the worst part of the series. Sarah did NOT want the Spuffy romance, and certainly not the SA in Seeing Red. She liked the first third of the seventh season, and did not like how the character was then back pedaled on development for the latter two-thirds of the season. And is a main influence of ending the show, instead of coming back for an eighth season.

It’s also why she would not sign on for a revival or sequel movie for the last 22 years.

While Joss envisioned the character, Sarah lived Buffy. She was never seen as someone who understood the character, and even her husband has commented upon how she was treated on that set. Joss “knew all” and refused to listen to his star and, at times, his writers.

I will admit that there have been authors who have been given the Buffy license, and did what they thought was Buffy-ish, by Hyperion/Disney and they mostly flopped. I’ve read both the Chosen novels, and the sequel trilogy. I’ve also read the Alternate universe novel. And they all miss the mark.

But they were also missing input from someone who was a part of the original magic.

I started the Cordelia series, written by Golden and Benson. Golden was one of the best Buffy novelists, and Benson always understood Tara’s character. And it worked. It was critically acclaimed. It’s got 4.5 stars out of nearly 3,000 reviews on Audible, which is pretty good. And most of the negative reviews are mainly about the format.

To be honest I put it down because I don’t love audio dramas. But I’m also a visual-kinesthetic person so I have always had issues focusing on long form audio storytelling. Even though I love long form true crime podcasts, I still get lost during hour-long episodes, and especially over a season dedicated to one case.

My points being that… it seems a little early to be negative about the potential series. We know nothing about it other than Sarah has signed off on it, and it’s being led by some talented writers and producers.


And do we really have to bring her looks into whether or not she can come back to tv? She did great as a supporting character in Wolf Pack. From what I hear, she’s done a great job on the Dexter prequel. And I think she can successfully come back in a mentor role to a new slayer.

Personally, I’m hoping the slayer line ended up correcting itself after Willow’s spell, and brought back the order and balance by stripping the potentials’ of their slayer powers, possibly including Buffy and Faith, and after lying dormant for a decade, this new slayer is the first called in 10 years, setting up the perfect scenario of having to fight back the evil that’s had a decade to build back up. Buffy can come in to help train the new slayer, as she’s the only former slayer that had to learn the ropes of saving the world solo.

A story like this honors the legacy of the original series, but sets up the new series to be a world of its own.

What will make it suck is if they rely on CGI demons, as mentioned in this thread previously, and if the showrunners don’t have a true concept of what they want to say. The reason why Buffy worked was because it was multidimensional. And the new story has to have something to say. Or it will suck.

And I’m not necessarily talking about “woke” ideology here. I know a lot of people on this board abscond when legacy shows tip too liberal. This series needs a balance. Buffy talked about liberal concepts (for the late 90s/00s) in a way that wasn’t preachy.

The first 5 seasons had social commentary that wasn’t overtly in your face. It was full of powerful metaphor that reflected the values that the writers wanted to showcase.

This new series needs to lean into that, and not be preachy. One of the many things that failed the Charmed reboot, for example, was that the first episode literally preached at us about what feminists should look like. The mouthy lesbian. The genius female scientist. The empathetic sorority sister. We were talked at, instead of shown feminism through the girl power that saved innocents.

The heart of the original wasn’t there.

What this potential new series has going for it is that Sarah IS involved. She isn’t cashing in on the show. And she won’t help produce it unless it is rooted in what made Buffy must-watch television.

The wit. The dialogue. The drama. And the acting.

Many shows today have cast terrible actors and actresses. You don’t feel immersed in television because there are SO many projects, you don’t have to really hone your craft to land a job.

Sarah enjoyed playing the mentor role, both as a character and as an actress, on Wolf Pack. And there were many flaws to that show. The main one being that it took 10 episodes to tell an origin story that should have been, at max, two episodes.

I think Sarah has learned from that. She sees what didn’t work. But she also saw what did work. A few of those actors had the chops. She was just getting back into the acting scene and she needed to stretch herself some.

We’re getting a re-seasoned Sarah for this show, and I think that’s going to work for our advantage. There’s heaps of revivals and reboots that the showrunners can learn from. They can see the mistakes that were made, and should be able to successfully navigate away from them.

I’m excited to see what comes out of this. We have a really good shot of having lightning in a bottle. Again.

Let’s not close the curtain before the stage has even been built.

You say that like it's uncommon. Actors aren't the characters they play, nor do they have the creative vision behind them (unless they are also directing). They are well paid hired guns that do the job they're signed up to do. And that job is to play what the creators ask them to play. Of course that inevitably means actors' visions will clash creatively with the director, especially in cases where it's the star of a show who's been doing it for many years. Stars develop egos, as well as a sense of ownership or protection for their character. It's not remotely surprising that she might disagree with Joss, but it's not her show. Joss calls the shots.

And even Joss, really, is a slave to ratings and audiences. He didn't even want Spike at all originally. The guy was meant to be a villain of the season, do a few guest star appearances, then die when his reign as baddie was over, but his immense charisma and popularity changed that. Personally, I liked Spike a little better than Angel for Buffy. Spike stood by her side as friends abandoned her, even when he was a soulless demon, while Angel couldn't even be bothered to stick around even after getting his soul back.

I don't understand how there is any more story to tell for Buffy. It's her show. The Slayer ended during the finale. There's no more Buffy, THE Vampire Slayer. There's girls everywhere all over the world are all Slayers (which was cheesy and dumb but you can't go back from that.) The whole schtick of one slayer is over. Buffy's story is over. There's no way you could continue that plot or do anything more to it that hasn't already been done. If you thought the original show already overstayed its welcome, how on earth can you think we need more spinoffs or revivals 20 years later? When Sarah is nearly 60 and doesn't even look like herself anymore?

 

[NileQT87]

I think the one way you could get around the aging issue in the case of the vampires (ignoring the inevitable 'shipper apocalypse) and the argument that nobody wants to see old man [insert character] who is just a powerless human Joe Schmo is if you do the Shanshu in a way that the powers are kept, rendering the former vampire essentially into a Connor-like status as mortal, but not entirely human (hence him getting slapped by the Caritas sanctuary spell) with vampire-specific abilities (in contrast to Slayer ones sourced from a different demon species).

Now, I have strong feelings that the Shanshu should be Angel's, as it's basically an insult to his entire journey if it were given to Spike alone just out of favoritism. That's his show's plot element.

But if you're going to bring one or both back, you might have to add to the Shanshu a bit. This also allows one or both to be players still in supernatural fights, yet not quite vampires anymore.

Connor is probably the template here for how to depict this. Obviously, Angel can't be shish kebabed every week and treat it as comedy anymore, but he'd still be a superbeing that could hang with Slayers and keep fighting. And he could be allowed to age.

Maybe present it as an apology for what Jasmine/the PtBs did to Cordy or the PtBs needing Angel to still be a fighter, even if he's earned this partial humanity (the parts that count, really).

And I'd definitely want to see Connor.

 

[NoShip]

I think we need to have as few original cast as possible and they need to appear as little as possible. If the series is going to be successful, the New Slayer has to be THE Star.

There isn't a NEED for Angel or Spike or any other character. I hope the series is so successful that Buffy works herself out of a job.

What is needed is engaging, "must see" storylines, brought to life by engaging, "must see" actors.

I don't think Whedon is any more necessary than anyone else. Given the obvious decline in his storytelling abilities, I don't see him being missed.

These days the "Whedonesque" style of writing had been normalized and most good writers can create storylines in Whedon's "voice".

Having said the above, I hope there is a great mix of new and old (writers, actors, producers, etc.) throughout all parts of the series. I hope they mesh well and give us the show that we and Buffy and the New Girl all deserve.

 

[NileQT87]

On the other hand, I really want to see a fight back against the idea that girl power/feminism means Buffy don't need no man and she should die a nun. That's hardly what she wanted. To say she's still cookie dough in her mid/late-40s is stating exactly that in regards to maybe having a family (ticking clock at that point). And it's a sad future given the Buffy we actually knew who didn't preach any such thing.

So, you can either bring in a Johnny-come-lately Riley 2.0 that disappoints everyone or deal with the elephant in the room. And it is relevant to Buffy's future, which is probably in the past by now. This would likely have happened 20ish years ago.

I still say it would work nicely if one of the new Slayer's friends is actually Buffy's daughter or something like that. And that makes Buffy even more connected to the new generation the show is about. Family would connect her to the story even more than a mentorship role, even if her offspring isn't the lead. If the father is Angel, there's also the insertion of half-brother Connor. Dawn would be another that would feel like a natural inclusion in this case. If you want to go full exposition of supernatural family drama for laughs at the newbie Slayer's expense, there's nothing crazier than this.

It also ties all three shows together as equally important, regardless of the main character of the third being related or not.

 

[NileQT87]

I hate to say this, but I feel like the fandom has been dying for so long now (since the last half of the BtVS season 8 comics, really), that it reminds me how absolutely explosive the fan reaction would've been to this news prior to then.

This fandom needs a revival BADLY. I realize we're a lingering tribe of Gen-X/Y oldies, but it does need the injection of new blood with people who care at the helm instead of what we've been trying to feed off of for decades. We're not just living on our nostalgia of two great shows (like many fandoms out there where that's more or less the end of the content or the tie-in materials are otherwise inoffensive like the original tie-in books and comics), but having that love diluted by everything else we've gotten since.

Best thing that might come of this if it ends up being added to the disappointment list is if we finally get those proper HD restorations of both shows (BtVS is going to need more work).

But, of course, I'm genuinely rooting for this to not only revive the Buffyverse on screen, but the entire fandom. The mythology is strong enough for it to be even bigger than just one revival show if it's successful.

 

[NileQT87]

Another thing to consider about the new characters, specifically the lead... The Buffyverse, love it or not, tended to center rather strongly on relationships, including of the romantic variety. So much so that it's still the elephant in the room regarding Buffy's future and now present.

While I think it's safe to say that any more ensouled vampires in love with a Slayer is overkill x2, would cheapen the stories already written (Buffy and Angel both had to face not being the only one anymore) and that would be a huge mistake to tread anywhere near again despite it being such a huge iconic element of the franchise, there's still the reality that the Buffyverse has a lot of supernatural relationship drama. And that goes for many of the characters, not just leads.

Rather than vampires where the soul mythology (along with the mythology that the demonic body-snatching parasite isn't really the human, but walks, talks and remembers their life, which renders 99% of vampires stake fodder the Slayer should have no qualms in dispatching) can't really be gotten around like in other franchises (a differentiating factor along with the storylines not being at the same time with rivals on two different shows that makes it the antithesis of Twilight and The Vampire Diaries, or as Joss once called the former, "Choosing a Boyfriend: the Movie"), might we see a demon love interest? Perhaps a half-breed like Doyle, but longer lived?

I still don't see the writers going for an Average Joe as the epic love interest (certainly nobody like Xander or Riley). And while some will be screaming for the main lead to be single forever because she only needs friends and romantic interests are somehow of lesser importance/depth, it's rather against human nature for most and it limits the storytelling that can be mined from it. It's still going to be a coming-of-age story. It's also one of the elements that would set the new Slayer apart from Buffy if her love interest is *not* a vampire, yet still a little supernatural. But at the same time, it's probably a good bet that she's going to have to struggle with straddling the human and demon worlds just like Buffy had to.

 

[nightshade]

might we see a demon love interest? Perhaps a half-breed like Doyle, but longer lived?

A werewolf might be easier, mostly human but still with a bit of a backstory.

 

[NileQT87]

Am I the only genre nerd who has never been fussed with werewolves? I prefer the thinking, intelligent monsters. Though nearly anything would be an improvement on the Buffyverse's depiction of them.

 

[nightshade]

Am I the only genre nerd who has never been fussed with werewolves? I prefer the thinking, intelligent monsters. Though nearly anything would be an improvement on the Buffyverse's depiction of them.

I'm more thinking, season 1, cheaper budget, werewolf!

 

[NileQT87]

Someone with a background like Doyle's (but given more time) would be ultimately more interesting and the writers who like to write allegorical 'messages' would likewise be pleased. And a lot friendlier to the budget!

Werewolves mean lots of CGI if you don't want someone in latex and fur trying to scamper on all fours.

I would love to see prosthetics make a comeback.

The one thing about immortal, long-lived characters like vampires is that they provide the opportunity for historical flashbacks that young characters just can't provide. Those were some of the greatest episodes. While you might have to consider introducing supernatural creatures other than vampires (that can't all be depicted as good) for this series, it might be a good idea to have someone longer lived whose life you can show through flashback. Either that, or just a lot of flashbacks with Slayers dying.

 

[nightshade]

Werewolves mean lots of CGI if you don't want someone in latex and fur trying to scamper on all fours.

Oh no, we'll not see a werewolf, he'll just talk about it a lot, and we'll see him hide away at night. He'll be the poster child for men talking about their emotions. How the wolf makes him different.

 

[NileQT87]

Nope. All I can think about is Willow pulling Oz's little tail. LMAO.

 

[Taake]

You say that like it's uncommon. Actors aren't the characters they play, nor do they have the creative vision behind them (unless they are also directing). They are well paid hired guns that do the job they're signed up to do. And that job is to play what the creators ask them to play. Of course that inevitably means actors' visions will clash creatively with the director, especially in cases where it's the star of a show who's been doing it for many years. Stars develop egos, as well as a sense of ownership or protection for their character. It's not remotely surprising that she might disagree with Joss, but it's not her show. Joss calls the shots.

People seem to have turned somewhat against that sentiment now.

When Jenna Ortega refused to act like a hired gun on Wednesday (refusing lines etc) she got a lot of viewer support (I believe Buffy/Angel writer Tim Minear took your point of view and was booed for it)

Fans believed more in Henry Cavill’s vision of The Witcher than the showrunners.

Basically, fans now seem to want to actor themselves to be a fan of the show and work, to a certain degree, and to get involved in the créative vision if possible.

It makes sense, as the fans see the actor but have no connection to the showrunners generally.

So the ”we paid for you, just do as we say” seems a bit dated in the social media age.

People believe in SMG’s creative vision because she was Buffy for so long. Her return, her faith in the project, especially after all this time of not wanting to return to the role, really means something.

If she believes Buffy as a character still has something to offer, then even a sceptic like me must admit that it gives me hope for the story they want to tell.

 

[NileQT87]

It helps that she genuinely seemed to care more about Buffy's characterization remaining true to how she saw the character, Buffy's status as a role model and not dragging her through the mud in a way that made her uncomfortable to portray it than Joss did (ditto Marti, though her biggest crimes were to James--SMG nipped her half of it in the bud by having her no-nudity clause).

That's not to say Buffy couldn't make mistakes, but SMG had numerous instances where she was questioning the writing. She was doing a bit more than showing up and saying her lines even back then.

She's on record as saying she took the emotional baggage home with her and was known for shutting down the set when she was inconsolably crying. One of the very visible things you can see in the behind-the-scenes footage and hear about in various anecdotes about those set shutdowns is that it was usually David helping her through scenes when she was too tired (I Only Have Eyes for You) to shoot in the middle of the night and comforting her when she was incredibly invested in the Bangel relationship, notably hugging her in between takes of what he had to say as Angelus in the bedroom and breaking character to use her own name in I Will Remember You. She was notably concerned about Angel's spinoff affecting her own show and feared doing Buffy without him. Alyson's infamous comments about SMG's interest in Buffy after season 3 speak to that. There's also that infamous comment in the season 6 dailies where she complains about there being too much sex. She wasn't silent about her opinions on set. SMG is also notable for not really going along with promoting storylines she wasn't feeling, which certainly happened in the Riley era.

To be fair, the outtake that ends with the crew offering to eat the wasted slices of bread isn't one of her shining moments. Ditto rudely telling the makeup artist to not touch her hands (Helpless). Her hiding her smoking from fans to uphold Buffy's role model status by handing her cigarette to James wasn't great either, but it also shows how much she cared about presenting Buffy as one.

SMG was disagreeing with Joss long before Spuffy. She got belittled for not going to college when she disagreed with Buffy having a one night stand with Parker. And then they deleted the dialog that highlighted Parker being the result of her not being over Angel, though that was cut for time.

Honestly, I agree with most of her character instincts over how far Joss often strayed. Joss had that vindictive streak with writing degrading scenes for actors who dared to disagree with him or those he had some weird vendetta against. The balcony scene was pure spite.

 

[hoponlilmama]

On the other hand, I really want to see a fight back against the idea that girl power/feminism means Buffy don't need no man and she should die a nun. That's hardly what she wanted. To say she's still cookie dough in her mid/late-40s is stating exactly that in regards to maybe having a family (ticking clock at that point). And it's a sad future given the Buffy we actually knew who didn't preach any such thing.

True but you don't want the focus to be another shipping war or for the series to come down to: "Who does Buffy pick!?"

So, you can either bring in a Johnny-come-lately Riley 2.0 that disappoints everyone

Speak for yourself, my friend! 😃 I loved Briley and I'd actually like to see him back. They're both older, wiser, and they could get a second chance with their relationship. Riley somewhere down the track could've split with Sam, or she may have been killed out in the field.

 

[NotASlayer]

Speak for yourself, my friend! 😃 I loved Briley and I'd actually like to see him back. They're both older, wiser, and they could get a second chance with their relationship. Riley somewhere down the track could've split with Sam, or she may have been killed out in the field.

Riley was the only one of her major relationships that looked like it could work in the long run.

Apart from Faith, of course. 😀

But if Riley had been written so that he came to terms with Buffy being stronger, he would have been a great support for her. Unlike Spike, who constantly destroyed her.

 

[Btvs fan]

Critical Drinker and Mauler discuss this on there YouTube show (right at the start thankfully). Didn't Mauler used to hang with Passion of the Nerd back in the day ?

 

[hoponlilmama]

Riley was the only one of her major relationships that looked like it could work in the long run.

And still could.... 😉

Apart from Faith, of course. 😀

I would not be disappointed with this pairing, should it happen!

But if Riley had been written so that he came to terms with Buffy being stronger, he would have been a great support for her. Unlike Spike, who constantly destroyed her.

Perhaps it's the way I look at it, but I think it was more about Riley not being needed, Buffy shutting him out that was really the downfall of their relationship.

Of course, the writers performed some spectacular character assassination on Riley for DRAMA and to make way for that other... "relationship" the following season.

 

[NileQT87]

If you take species out of the equation (thus deleting everything to do with curses and lifespans), that's really not the case at all. And if we're talking Shanshu here, that's eliminated as a stumbling block.

When you really look at who Buffy still loves, which relationships didn't fall apart because of a lack of love at all, red flags that were signposted well in advance along with lack of honesty, etc... Riley being best simply because he's human is disregarding a lot.

It's telling that Xander was his biggest cheerleader to the point of spilling Buffy's past with Angel to Riley to rile him up and acting like Riley should be the one in a million that Buffy should run after, despite the fact that Buffy never told him she loved him (only time she said it was to Angel just to hurt him) and Riley knew Buffy didn't love him (which is really why he left). Riley's reaction to Oz being a werewolf was another red flag even before The Yoko Factor where he accused Buffy of having cheated on him despite all of Angel's fighting being purely defensive and evasive (thus suggesting he has a soul). Riley nearly killing himself to remain a super soldier because of his insecurity was another red flag.

One might bring up I Will Remember You in regards to the Shanshu scenario, but Angel had many more reasons for erasing the day, including his strong desire to actually atone rather than to accept a reward he didn't earn. Angel always had a very cosmic view of redemption. And Angel was never insecure about Buffy being stronger than him. Sure, giving him his vampire strength would be probably something he'd appreciate just because his natural instinct is to want to help and save souls, but the dangling carrot of humanity is something he'd only want if earned, regardless of the things he could only give to those he loves as a human. Arguably, he cared more than anyone about those human desires his vampirism had stolen from him. It's clear he was bothered by his inability to father children as far back as Bad Eggs and he repeated it in The Prom and War Zone well before Connor came along. Angel is very aware of what he can only do as something he hates to help humanity at the cost of his own human happiness and what he lacks in a relationship with any mortal.

Make Angel human and he's not going to be anything like Riley or Xander. Make Spike human and ditto. You have to evaluate the characters based on their actual characterizations and compatibility in regards to missions, world views, what they'd want out of a human life if they actually got to be human, relationships that weren't ended for a lack of love, etc..., not their species that might change. Buffy's opinion actually matters, not who looks good on paper if you know bare minimum.

The Faith talk is just delulu that disregards everything in canon. Faith has a closer connection to Angel, the one who actually never gave up on her, than she does Buffy. Except that relationship is very sibling with Angel's long-foreshadowed paternal qualities.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Re: Arrested Development; I agree that Buffy should have had something resembling a full life since 2003. My solution is to claim the events of the off screen "Near Apocalypse of '08" ended the direct demon threat to Earth, restored Spike and Angel's humanity, and killed off the more inconvenient characters. Something like what Doctor Who did with the Time War or Logan did with the fall of Xavier's School. Not a reboot, but a pallet cleanser.

Or recast Angel and Spike with annoying teenage boys whom the new slayers find really hot, but Buffy can't stand. Say something subversive about vampire human relationships, and they don't work.