Buffy : Unpopular Opinions

crazysoulless said:
@Priceless I'm hoping you meant the "two strong women" in season 6 to be Buffy & Tara because Willow was in the middle of a multi season Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader arc.
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Sorry crazysoulless, I meant Willow and Buffy 🙂 Growing up, making your own choices, figuring out who you are and who you want to be, it doesn't alway lead to good choices and great outcomes. Both women hit rock bottom, but they both come back stronger
 
Priceless said:
Sorry crazysoulless, I meant Willow and Buffy 🙂 Growing up, making your own choices, figuring out who you are and who you want to be, it doesn't alway lead to good choices and great outcomes. Both women hit rock bottom, but they both come back stronger
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Buffy was dealing with a dead mom, severe depression, and PTSD. Willow was dealing with being a power hungry sorceress. Buffy wanted to die. Willow wanted to murder everyone. Buffy had a crappy full-time job, unpaid nightly patrol, creditors hassling, social services appointments, being turned down for bank loans. Willow had free rent and Spellcasters Anonymous. Buffy was mentally ill (disassociating, made worse by all the temporal games the Trio were performing on her). Willow was just going mental. Buffy was taken advantage of by Spike (he pulled a Mr Maclay and made her think she was an evil demon, tried to keep her in the darkness, sexually assaulted her). Willow took advantage of Tara (erasing her memory multiple times and then sexually assaulted her like what happened to Katrina).

Comparing Buffy dealing with being dragged out of Heaven to Willow wanting to play puppet master is like comparing Winifred returning from Pylea to Warren being leader of the Trio.

Gotta say, Aly was definitely at her hottest in the last two seasons. The only time I thought she was really hot. It was gone by the time HIMYM started.
 
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WillowFromBuffy said:
Living is better than being dead.

People who think otherwise should be told that they are wrong.

Willow did not remove Tara's memory in order to have sex with her.

Aly has always been hot. Claiming otherwise is not only petty; it is totally ridiculous.
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I said it was the only time I thought she was really hot/at-her-hottest. I didn't say she was ugly or unattractive so I don't see how I was being petty or ridiculous.

Living is better than being dead unless you just spent five months in Heaven and remember every second of it.

While Willow erasing Tara's memory was not in order to have sex with her, she DID have sex with her while Tara had altered memory that was caused by Willow.

That's like drugging someone's drink so they'd be more fun and then having sex with them while they're tripping/not-in-their-right-mind. It's rape.

Xander didn't intend for Buffy to be hit with the BBB love spell he cast but had he decided to have sex with her while she was being affected, it would've been rape.

Tara couldn't consent to the sexual things she did with Willow in Once More With Feeling because, like she sang later in the episode, "I'm under your spell. God, how can this be? Playing with my memory" and "I wish I could trust that it was just this once but I must do what I must. I can't adjust to this disgust. We're done."

Tara's reaction to finding out Willow erased her memory was to dump her, not have sing along sex with her.
 
crazysoulless said:
Living is better than being dead unless you just spent five months in Heaven and remember every second of it.
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Heaven is overrated. If humans are ever let back into Paradise, I will immediately eat the apple and start the cycle all over again. Buffy is the great survivor. Seeing her want lose her individuality in a depersonalised Nirvana is the most painful part of the entire show.
crazysoulless said:
That's like drugging someone's drink so they'd be more fun and then having sex with them while they're tripping/not-in-their-right-mind. It's rape.
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We use different allegories to understand what is going on. Willow is trying to avoid an argument, so I see it as being comparable to a lying to your partner about a drug or gambling problem. That is a serious issue, but I don't think it causes an issue with sexual consent. If so, then we are all rapists. Everybody lies about smthn.
 
WillowFromBuffy said:
Seeing her want lose her individuality in a depersonalised Nirvana is the most painful part of the entire show.
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But how do you know her experience was of a 'depersonalised Nirvana'? Just because all Buffy remembers is being at peace doesn't mean that's all that happened up there - she could very well have been curled up in bed with her Yummy Sushi pyjamas on, eating jelly doughnuts and cookie dough fudge mint chip ice cream and watching movies together with her Mum, all the while feeling 'finished'. 🙂 It's just that back on earth the feeling of completeness is what she can remember most vividly.
 
EarthLogic said:
But how do you know her experience was of a 'depersonalised Nirvana'? Just because all Buffy remembers is being at peace doesn't mean that's all that happened up there - she could very well have been curled up in bed with her Yummy Sushi pyjamas on, eating jelly doughnuts and cookie dough fudge mint chip ice cream and watching movies together with her Mum, all the while feeling 'finished'. 🙂 It's just that back on earth the feeling of completeness is what she can remember most vividly.
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That is just the idea I got from her words. It does not really matter. People who say BtVS should have ended with Chosen The Gift are mental. The coming of age story starring the ever persevering heroine cannot end with Buffy getting sad and conveniently offing herself.

Willow did everything she could to get the hero back in her horse. She got her out of her catatonia in WotW, resurrected her in Bargaining and even went as far as pretending to have slept with Riley.
 
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EarthLogic
EarthLogic
You mean 'The Gift'?
crazysoulless said:
Tara couldn't consent to the sexual things she did with Willow in Once More With Feeling because, like she sang later in the episode, "I'm under your spell. God, how can this be? Playing with my memory" and "I wish I could trust that it was just this once but I must do what I must. I can't adjust to this disgust. We're done."
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I disagree. Willow never took away Tara's freewill, she took away a memory of an argument that created friction between the couple. It wasn't the right thing to do and Tara has every right to be upset about it, but essentially all Willow did was reset them to a pre-argument stage. For all she knew, Tara could've woken up the next day and gone "Willow, I think you're using too much magic and we should discuss this". Tara was still capable of free thought, she just didn't remember the argument between herself and Willow, this is proven by the fact that when she found out what Willow had done, she got angry about it. If Willow had Tara truly "under her spell" then that wouldn't have happened. The reason why Tara is so upset about it isn't because she and Willow slept together but because what Willow did broke the TRUST between them. Tara sings "I wish I could trust it was just this once" but she feels like she can't trust Willow anymore. That's why she decides to leave, because a relationship without trust isn't a relationship at all. Tara doesn't want to spend her days wondering if she and Willow had an argument and Willow magically removed the memory of it and that's why they're happy. She's disgusted that Willow broke that trust between them.
 
W
WillowFromBuffy
Thank you!
MarieVampSlayer
MarieVampSlayer
Exactly and Tara was still traumatised by what Glory did to her sanity in S5.
DeadlyDuo said:
I disagree. Willow never took away Tara's freewill, she took away a memory of an argument that created friction between the couple.
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Tara only had the free will that Willow allowed her to have. That's the problem. Tara is missing a part (memory that Willow took away) to make a fully formed decision. So her free will is limited as a result.
 
RomanticSoul said:
Tara only had the free will that Willow allowed her to have. That's the problem. Tara is missing a part (memory that Willow took away) to make a fully formed decision. So her free will is limited as a result.
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Exactly. It's like finding out your spouse cheated on you but then they hit you on the head to make you forget and a few days later you hop into bed with them.

The you that wouldn't have sex with them because they cheated is gone. And then the next week you catch them cheating again and they once again hit you on the head to make you think they're not a cheater.

You can't say no to sex with your cheating spouse if they keep erasing your memory of finding out they cheated.

Tara: If you don't want to fight, you don't fight. You don't use magic to make a fight go away.

It's no different from in s3 when Willow was going to erase Xander's attraction to her without his consent, which in some ways is a reverse love spell.

Imagine Lover's Walk ending with Willow erasing Oz & Cordelia's memory of seeing Xander & her kissing. And then Willow was still with Oz and Xander was still with Cordelia while Xander/Willow went on fooling around behind their backs. Whoops, they caught us again. Time to get out that lethe's bramble.
 
crazysoulless said:
Exactly. It's like finding out your spouse cheated on you but then they hit you on the head to make you forget and a few days later you hop into bed with them.

The you that wouldn't have sex with them because they cheated is gone. And then the next week you catch them cheating again and they once again hit you on the head to make you think they're not a cheater.

You can't say no to sex with your cheating spouse if they keep erasing your memory of finding out they cheated.
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If that was possible - which it is not, at least not in practice - you would be causing major brain trauma. It is more like being caught cheating and then somehow managing to convincingly lie about it. I don't think that equates to rape.
crazysoulless said:
It's no different from in s3 when Willow was going to erase Xander's attraction to her without his consent, which in some ways is a reverse love spell
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Can't cheat. Can't use magic to keep yourself from cheating. Lifeing is too hard!
 
@WillowFromBuffy

The rape part is because Tara wouldn't of had sex with Willow if she remembered she was fighting with her or if she knew Willow was erasing part of her life. She didn't convincingly lie so much as she performed forced brain surgery.

Okay, that second part made me laugh.
 
crazysoulless said:
The rape part is because Tara wouldn't of had sex with Willow if she remembered she was fighting with her or if she knew Willow was erasing part of her life. She didn't convincingly lie so much as she perform forced brain surgery.
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Tara gave absolutely no indication that she would be abstaining from sex. If Willow could act like a grown up for two seconds, she could have squared things out with Tara in no time.
 
I don't feel bad for Anya in Hells Bells. She got a little of what she deserved.

She did not regret torturing, mutilating, dismembering, and murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

But I'm supposed to be all, "Poor Anya. Xander decided not to marry her after someone who she forcibly turned into a demon then trapped in a Hell dimension for years of suffering convinced him it was a bad idea."

And then her response to being left at the altar was to become a vengeance demon again, cursing more innocent people and trying to murder Xander.
 
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