Buffys a killer

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Faith/willowfan

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I was just thinking that everyone gives willow a hard time for killing tow men who in my opinion deserved but Buffy never gets any stick for killing a human. most people think buffy has never taken a human life but she is- in series 5 when she fights the knights of byzantium or what ever they called, we see her kill at least one when she puts an axe in his chestand that black guy says he lost, i think it was 10 men but none even battered an eye lid, also none said anything when she killed caleb, who as technically human, i know he deserved to die but still i just dont like how people like angel, willow anya etc. cant get away with it but she can- its so unfair and technically makes her a hypocrit, if thats how u spell it!!!
 
I think the thing with what Willow did was yes she was greiviing over what Warren did but she didn't really have the choice to kill him or not, it was up to the law, Warren could of had the chance to change whereas the ones Buffy killed prob wouldn't. Buffy had to kill them if she hadn't people around her would of died..
 
The First had entered Caleb so technically he had a lot of demon in him. The Knights I think were classed as self-defence really. I mean who wants to see the main character die, how interesting would that be?
 
All of Buffy's killings were to save the world from evil. She did what she had to do. Willows' murder (yes murder) of Warren was strictly out of vengeance, there was no NEED to do it. Buffy's constantly talking about how she doesn't kill humans, there have been several cases where it seemed like someone deserved to die. However, a human is capable of retribution and reform. Only when the world was at risk (or her friends/family - think Dawn being threatened by the Knights) did she kill a non-demon.

Totally agree that Caleb wasn't human either, but part demon (the First).
 
Jules
Jules
Couldn't have said it better myself :)
M
MRFAITH
I like it. Good words.
I think it's important to point out Buffy has only killed in self-defence. (BTW she also killed the bounty hunter in the skating rink in What's my line 1).

I'm not sure the "greatest good for the greatest number" arguement really applies for Buffy the way it would for Angel.

Buffy is a white hat hero. Angel is an anti-hero. Angel can kill Drogyn, or drink from a shooting victim he was too slow to save (as Angelus said, "did he choose to be slow?"), and move on. Buffy can't allow herself to believe causing the death of an innocent is acceptable in any circumstances. She wouldn't kill Ben. She couldn't accept Faith killing the mayor's assistant. When she thought she killed Katrina she was going to turn herself over to the human authority for justice.

The line gets murkier in Season 7 when she almost moves into anti-hero territory, but before that the only explanation she would accept for causing the death of another human would be self-defence. Also I'm not sure Caleb applies as human. I think he might qualify under Buffy's mandate to kill demonic and supernatural menaces. I don't know. We'd have to ask a Watcher.
 
Jenny
Jenny
Very well said!!!!
I agree alot with what Nerd4hire said.

Buffy killed for self-defence. Plus she only kills "souless" creatures.

Warren did a bad thing Shooting Buffy and Killing Tara but he made a mistake which should of been punished through the American authority. Not through Willow evil rampage.
 
Xander Harris said:
Buffy killed for self-defence. Plus she only kills "souless" creatures.
Click to expand...

I also agree with what N4H said. Xander Harris-not to be contrary, but the Knights of Byzantium weren't souless-just fanatical.
 
I agree that buffy only kills in self defense and to save the world and even though willow killed warren out of vengeance I dont think people should give her such a hard time.

To me what she did was understandable. If someone you loved was hurt or murdered by someone you'd want to kill them no matter what the consequences are.

Warren deserved what he got. :violin:
 
Jacklyn said:
I also agree with what N4H said. Xander Harris-not to be contrary, but the Knights of Byzantium weren't souless-just fanatical.
Click to expand...

I completely forgot about the Knights of Byzantium. But she didnt know they were humans when she killed the first 2 was it? Anyways...nevermind 😉
 
Xander Harris said:
I completely forgot about the Knights of Byzantium. But she didnt know they were humans when she killed the first 2 was it? Anyways...nevermind 😉
Click to expand...

Actually, very good point! There was only one left when she pulled off his mask-thingy and said "You're human!" or something like that! Good catch!
 
Buffy has killed humans, yes, but always in self defence.
Willow killed out of hate, but she was taken over by magic. The mistake she made was quiting magic completely, cos when she suddenly tried waking Tara up, it took over her.
And I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here...I had a point with it when I started, but forgot it... :happy55:

Edit: Ok...Just remembered something very important, that not just me seem to have forgotten...Buffy tried to kill Faith. Out of vengeance, and to try and save Angel, but she still tried to kill her. And Faith was human, and that wasn't self defence either. She went there to kill Faith.
Faith didn't die, but it was close. Very close.
 
F
Faith/willowfan
you made a great cooment which helped me in my arguement, thanks
that is an extremely good point, one i didnt even consider, also i agree with wicca willow what she did was understandable but she was also running on dark magicks and grieve buffy didnt have anything affecting her, not even grief because he wasn't dead yet but she still tried to kill faith, she aint as righteous as everyone makes her out to be
 
Hmmm...true...she did try to kill Faith...which was out of vengence...but I also think she saw that as her only option...as much as i hate to admit it...lol...she REALLY loved Angel...and it was either her or Faith to keep him alive...you'll do crazy thngs for the one you love...but it still doesn't justify her actions in any way...even though Faith wsa a threat and a danger...it's just lucky she didn't kill her...she doesn't have to have that on her conscience...even though she was ready to kill her...Faith suvived...so Buffy lucked out...she's still never killed for no reason...

Ok...now I must go watch some Spuffy episodes...i can't believe I just said something positive about Bangel...aggghhhh....
 
I've never been convinced Buffy went to Faith's apartment that night with the specific purpose of killing Faith.

She wanted to take Faith to Angel. She wanted Angel to drink from her. Is that attempted murder? Angel drank from Buffy. and Buffy lived. Buffy hand-cuffed herself to Faith, so she could bring Faith back to Angel.

It is possible to make the arguement Buffy intended to Kill Faith, because she said this:

Oz: The only way to cure this thing is to drain the blood of a Slayer.
Buffy: (long pause) Good.
Xander: Good? What did I miss?
Buffy: No, it's perfect. Angel needs to drain a Slayer, then I'll bring him one.
Willow: Buffy, if Angel drains Faith's blood, it'll kill her.
Buffy: Not if she's already dead.
Click to expand...


OK does this mean Buffy planned to kill Faith, or is it just tough talk. In spite of what Willow says, feeding Angel doesn't necessarily mean killing the slayer, and Buffy knows it. Remember this bit:

Buffy: "Drink"¦" Angel frowns at her. Buffy takes off her jacket, a determined expression on her face. "Drink me."
Angel stares at her in shock, he shakes his head rejecting the idea: "No."
Buffy: "It's the only way."
Angel keeps shaking his head and forces himself up out of the bed, pushing Buffy aside: "No. - Get away."
Buffy takes a hold of his right arm as he stands up, looking up at him: "It'll save you."
Angel is looking down at the floor: "It'll kill you."
Buffy: "Maybe not. -. Not if you don't take it all."
Click to expand...

So possibly for a fleeting angry second Buffy made a statement suggesting she was ready to kill Faith. That's just not in the same leaque of a moral wrong as flaying someone alive - sorry.
 
i dont think that all, if she didnt want to kill faith why did she take a knife, why did she say "your about to have it back" to faith and why did she stab her.
 
I agree I think she did want to kill Faith, but she was angry, Faith has just posioned someone she loved very much and if Faith was the cure, I think Buffy wanted to go all the way and kill her..
 
You know what? It's hard to really argue this one, because this seems to be another one of those ones like "did Angel really kill a Senior Partner?", or "What made it snow in Amends?". There seems to be evidence to take multiple sides of the question.

My personal opinion is Buffy had reached a point in the story where she'd decided a showdown with Faith was inevitable, and it would probably end in her having to kill Faith, much as she'd reached a similar conclusion with Angel in The Becoming.

There's this bit when Angel meets up with her at the vulcanoligists apartment:

Angel: I checked in with Giles. He asked me to back you up.
Buffy: He's afraid I'll run into Faith.
Angel: And you're not?
Buffy: It's gonna happen sooner or later.
Click to expand...

So yeah, when Buffy went for the final face-off with Faith she took the knife, but she also took handcuffs.

Also there's this little interplay between Buffy and Xander:

Xander: I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but are you sure you're up to this?
Buffy: It's time.
Xander: We're talking to the death.
Buffy: I can't play kid games anymore. This is how she wants it.
Xander: I just don't want to lose you.
Buffy: I won't get hurt. (reaches into a weapons cabinet)
Xander: That's not what I mean.
Click to expand...

It would appear Buffy would prefer not to kill Faith, but circumstances may demand it based on her need to do what she sees as her job, protecting innocents from the supernatural menace. Xander doesn't want her to cross over into that gray area where she becomes a killer rather than a protector.

Here's the thing though; because the question is possible it's hard to make the leap, and just black and white call Buffy a murderer.
 
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