Buffys a killer

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Faith/willowfan said:
i dont think that all, if she didnt want to kill faith why did she take a knife, why did she say "your about to have it back" to faith and why did she stab her.
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Hmmm...could be a simple answer to this question....Intimidation. Maybe Buffy meant to kill Faith...or maybe she didn't. Really we don't know, and probably never will...it's kind of personal opinion. But she doesn't have to take a knife for the purpose of killing someone....But she needed to get Faith to Angel...walking up to her and saying 'Hey I'm gonna take you to Angel now so he can drain your blood to survive'...probably not gonna get her to go to Angel...even if she didn'tn plan on killing; she could have used it to intimidate or even hurt Faith enough to get her to Angel...
 
Also we can look at what actually happened.

Buffy slapped the handcuffs on Faith. Faith broke free. Faith grabbed a pipe. Buffy pulled the knife. What does that tell us?
 
And you're welcome to think that, but if you were to say there's enough evidence of murderous intent here to make the claim Buffy is no longer a hero, I would question that.
 
True but nobody expects Giles to be above human flaws and frailities. He says it best himself:

GILES: Can you move?
BEN: Need a ... a minute. She could've killed me.
GILES: No she couldn't. Never. And sooner or later Glory will re-emerge, and ... make Buffy pay for that mercy. And the world with her. Buffy even knows that... (reaches into his pocket, takes out his glasses) and still she couldn't take a human life.

Shot of Ben listening.

GILES: She's a hero, you see. (Giles puts his glasses on) She's not like us.
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Im only saying if buffy is still a hero even after killing more people than willow and attempting to kill faith, even if she only killed in self defence then willow is still a hero and i dont think she should get stick when so many others have killed people, the only one who could really say anything to her is Xander because as far as i know hes never killed a human
 
Willow is a hero. What's the problem?

Are you saying Buffy isn't the more traditional kind of hero like say Spiderman or Superman, because she may have had mixed and angry emotions when she went to face off with Faith, or are you saying Buffy was just plain evil and wrong, because she was dealing with those feelings?

I'm not sure I understand your complaint?
 
I agrre with N4H. basically everyone in the Buffyverse has killed someone. Buffy kills for self-defense, and thats all she does. Also to save the world. WHereas with Willow she went further then just killing someone, she tortured them and then in the end ripped off their skin. Their is a major difference there.

And lets compare Buffy to Faith, Faith is/was a killer, if you look at the 2 you will see a major difference.
 
Faith/willowfan said:
Im only saying if buffy is still a hero even after killing more people than willow and attempting to kill faith, even if she only killed in self defence then willow is still a hero and i dont think she should get stick when so many others have killed people, the only one who could really say anything to her is Xander because as far as i know hes never killed a human
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As far as I'm aware...Willow is still generally considered a hero...I won't disagree with that...we just all have different opinions on what constitutes as murder...or if Buffy was planning on killing Faith...for example...I believe the nature of Buffy and Willow's killings were very different..I believe Willow murdered Warren...I also believe buffy has killed only out of self defense..but has never done anything I would consider murder...you may believe differently...I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about though...maybe I don't understand what you are saying...
 
nerd4hire said:
And you're welcome to think that, but if you were to say there's enough evidence of murderous intent here to make the claim Buffy is no longer a hero, I would question that.
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Absolutely. Also, Faith was helping out the Mayor. Who was going to kill the entire student population of Sunnydale High and open up the Hellmouth. The showdown with Faith wasn't out of vengeance, as Buffy stated, it was going to happen sooner or later. Faith was out of control and hurting many people had HAD to be stopped.
 
Theres differences...
Willow killed just to kill...she didnt even consider the consequences...
Buffy killed to save the world...its her job...
 
Jenny
Jenny
Very well put!!!!
well technically the nights of byzabtium where trying to save the world... my complaint is just that i think someone should give buffy some stick every once and a while, people like angel, faith and willow constantly get it but she hardly ever does. ALSO the first time faith killed someoe it was by accident, sort of self defence but buffy still went on about it didnt she but no one said anything when buffy purposely killed people, whether it was in self defence or not
 
Faith/willowfan said:
ALSO the first time faith killed someoe it was by accident, sort of self defence but buffy still went on about it didnt she
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She did not intend to kill a human, but in no way was it self defence. She let the thrill that slaying gives her overcome her common sense. Of course Buffy went on about it! Faith killed a human. So I don't see how Buffy going on about that point is a bad thing...
 
B
BillieHunter
I completely and totally agree Nienna. Faith in no way killed in self defense there, also her reaction to the killing was so totally indifferent. Of course Buffy went on about it.
Faith/willowfan said:
I was just thinking that everyone gives willow a hard time for killing tow men who in my opinion deserved but Buffy never gets any stick for killing a human. most people think buffy has never taken a human life but she is- in series 5 when she fights the knights of byzantium or what ever they called, we see her kill at least one when she puts an axe in his chestand that black guy says he lost, i think it was 10 men but none even battered an eye lid, also none said anything when she killed caleb, who as technically human, i know he deserved to die but still i just dont like how people like angel, willow anya etc. cant get away with it but she can- its so unfair and technically makes her a hypocrit, if thats how u spell it!!!
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I've always believed that Buffy was a killer. She wasn't perfect. I never condoned her killing of that vampire whore in "Into the Woods". I realize that many would excuse her behavior on the basis that her victim was a vampire and not a human. It doesn't really matter what the victim was to me. It is the intention of the killer that matters. Buffy wasn't defending anyone's life when she killed that vampwhore. The latter died because she was the one giving Riley suck jobs.

And I've always found her actions against Faith in "Graduation 2" questionable, as well. Was there really a need to go after Faith with a knife? Why use Faith to save Angel, when the facts eventually proved that she could have simply used her own blood? And why didn't she and Giles make arrangements to capture Faith, instead of stalking the other Slayer for a showdown? Buffy's actions makes me wonder if she really didn't have murder in mind.
 
F
Faith/willowfan
thanks for agreeing and actually saying something negative about buffy most people are two far up her ass to see sheaint perfect lol
Perhaps we should also be considering what Buffy's manadate is as slayer.

She agreed to take the job on of protecting the world from the supernatural menace. Faith is supernatural. If she goes bad, and kills people, it's Buffy's job to try to stop her. If she should have to kill Faith, while she protects herself as she does this job, it falls within the mandate of the job Buffy took on to end Faith's life to save her own, or the life of an innocent. It would only be professional from Buffy's point of view to prepare for that possibility.

As far as the Vamp-ho goes. Buffy's supposed to kill vampires. So why didn't she dust Angel and Spike then? The fact that Buffy chooses not to dust a souled vampire like Angel, or a chipped vampire like Spike speaks more to Buffy's humanity than her inefficiency as a slayer. If she'd wanted to though, she could have killed them both, and still been a good slayer.

The Knights of Byzantium were inter-dimensional warriors sent to kill a human (the monk tells us Dawn is human). If Buffy should feel called upon to kill a KoB protecting Dawn, it falls within Bufy's mandate to kill him or for that matter as many KoBs as necessary.

Technically Buffy could have killed any of those supernatural menaces, and not have broken the rules of the job she took on.

This should all be black and white. Unfortunately for Buffy it's not. Somehow battling supernatural evil appears to take on shades of gray in the Buffyverse. Personally, I think Buffy handles it all pretty well given the circumstances. I hope nobody is trying to say anything Buffy has done, makes her a bad person, or even non-heroic. I think Buffy has taken the job of being a good person beyond the simple rules of being a slayer, and dealt with the moral ambiguities much better than any of us could.
 
when does it say the Kob where inter-dimensional warriors, buffy didnt kill them to save the world, because they where going to kill dawn which really would have saved the world. Buffy is not all that, why cant anyone accept a bad word against her name- she killed for her own persoal gan she killed the kob to save dawn which was selfish- understandable but selfish because she risked everyones life in the whole niverse so she could have a lil sis
 
Faith/willowfan said:
when does it say the Kob where inter-dimensional warriors, buffy didnt kill them to save the world, because they where going to kill dawn which really would have saved the world. Buffy is not all that, why cant anyone accept a bad word against her name- she killed for her own persoal gan she killed the kob to save dawn which was selfish- understandable but selfish because she risked everyones life in the whole niverse so she could have a lil sis
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DISAGREEING with that.

The KOB were coming after Dawn, the slayer and the Scoobs. Buffy was merely using self-defense when she killed them. They knew what they were doing, who they were facing and they wanted to hurt Dawn.

Please don't give Buffy crap when shes done so much to save everyone's ass. I mean, if not for her alone in Prophecy Girl and Becoming Part 2 and even in the Season 4 ep that I can't remember where Buffy drags the demon up from the hellmouth, there wouldn't be a world that existed for her to save in the Gift. Buffy may have talked about not saving the world in the end if Dawn had to die, but look at what she did in the end.

In no way was that selfish. Buffy stopped the KOB from killing Dawn and still stopped the world from ending. What if Buffy hadn't stopped the KOB and they would have killed Dawn, but would that have stopped Glory? No. Glory was just as much a threat when she opened that portal as she was alive. She could have taken down alot of people. Buffy stopped her.

Buffy killed the KOB for the better good, unlike Willow who did it for revenge. I believe Buffy is morally superior to both her and Faith. Willow killed Warren and then tried to kill Andrew and Jonothan, but after the first killing, until rescued by Xander, she didn't look like she had any remorse. Faith killed a man and felt no remorse for a good while, but after Buffy thought she killed a human Ted, she was instantly affected. Buffy is better.

My posts are so Buffy-ist, but thats my opinion and you have yours.
 
J
Jacklyn
Very well said!
Completely agreeing with originalslayer on that one. The KOB were all ready to kill anyone who was in their way. Including Buffy, The Scoobies, and Dawn. She killed in self-defense. It was in no way selfish of her to do that. How is that killing for personal gain? Saving your friends from a group of people who are ready to kill them if they get in their way? I don't understand how that's personal gain?
 
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