Buffy's last line...

Well since we're going discuss such things as what people really mean when they use the word "genuine", I'd like to offer an observation on the phrase "your opinion sucks".

I find people using such a phrase really mean their own opinion is the one true word, and only idea of merit. They seem to base this idea of their own superiority on an ability to bully the holder of the other opinion. It doesn't work for me personally. I'd suggest trying another tact.

*
 
You just keep editing that post, buddy. You will eventually get it right. Perhaps one day you will get yourself to a place where you can type a post without making any mistakes.

Kimm said:
Let's not be childish now...
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Whoa, back up there... Are you suggesting that I was being childish?

I am always childish.
 
S
Summers Blood
Now, now. You always have to provoke people. Are you a naturally aggressive person!
Here's my take on this last line thing.

First of all I think Buffy did love Spike, she just didn't love him in a way which satisfied his definition of love. Here is his defintion from Lover's Walk -

Love isn't brains, children, it's
blood... (clasps his chest) blood screaming inside you to work its will.

Neither Buffy nor Angel want to hear this.

Spike: *I* may be love's bitch, but at least *I'm* man enough to admit
it.
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Buffy wasn't "love's bitch", and Spike knew it. He knew it because Spike has always been good at understanding the darker, underlying motivations of the psyche. He tried to exploit these in the Yoko factor. Here's another example from Doomed.

Spike: "*Buffy* fights the forces of evil. You're her groupies. She'd do just as well without you "“ better I'd wager, since she wouldn't have to go about saving your hides all the time."
Xander: "That is no not true! We're part of the team. She needs us."
Spike: "Or you're just the same tenth grade losers you've always been, and she's too much of a softy to cut you lose."
Willow and Xander stand there speechless and after a moment Spike turns and walks on a satisfied grin spreading over his face.
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The question is though, does that satisfy the question for the rest of us when we try to answer the question "did Buffy love Spike?"

In Help the prophetess Cassie Newton foresaw the moment in the future when Buffy would tell Spike she loved him. My impression was she was sincere.

At the end of Showtime when Buffy comes to rescue Spike in the cave, I thought I saw a tear in her in her eye. My general impression in that scene was Buffy felt concern for Spike beyond what one expect for someone she didn't have deep feelings for.

So in Chosen Buffy tells Spike she loves him. I think she was sincere, but was she right, or was Spike more correct when he said, "No you don't".

Spike says love has to be "blood screaming inside you to work its will."

Is that true?

With Buffy's last line of "Spike" she challenges that. She displays admiration and warmth of feeling for Spike. She shows he is still in her head. Personally when I viewed that, my impression was she showed love.
 
K
Kimm
What you say does make sense
Lyri said:
ok, different people have different views about this, but here's mine. (and i think a certain mod that goes by the name of SpikedBuffy thinks along the same lines i do.)

we all know that Buffy's last line of the show was Spike's name, that's a given. but if you look back at the line she speaks directly before saying his name, it gets a little more meaningful, at least to some people.

Buffy's last word, spoken to Giles: "Spike."

Buffy's last line, spoken to Spike: "I love you."

Put them together: "I love you, Spike."

Now, maybe i'm just seeing this from the eyes of a Spuffy shipper, but i'm pretty happy to say that, yep, i think she truly did love Spike!

ok, on with the debating! 😉
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Wow..I never looked at it..but it makes sense. I don't think it was just that she didn't love him..I really don't think she realized she loved him until he was dieing..and it really hit her at the end..that it was over..that he truly loved her for her..despite her flaws..despite everything. I feel that in a way Spike's death saved her.
 
I'm not talking about from the big bad..but also emotionally.. I think for the first time in her life Spike, and Buffy had felt actual peace. What more can one ask for?
 
It was obvious she loved him..she may not have been "IN" love with him, but she had LOVE for him. Did you expect SPike and Buffy to go back and forth "I love you", "NO you dont!"..until the cave collapsed killing them both?

I don't think Giles didn't trust him..lol I think out of everyone..Giles actually trusted him..and he didn't seem to dislike him as much as he did Angel at one point.

sorry for the three posts..I couldn't edit..it was taking too long
 
buffy could never love spike after the whole attempted rape thing, but in the last episode i think spike was the last line because it was his redemption, he sacraficed himself to save the world, in buffys eyes he had been redeemed and she could trust him and love him again
 
After..the attempted rape? I don't see what that has to do with anything..but if you look at it like this Buffy raped spike emotionally and mentally..she tore him down until he literally went insane..plus he had the first screwing with him..yes what he did wass wrong..but what she did was wrong also..

It's not that she didn't care about him..I'm sure we have all had a time when someone we loved or cared about ..we got in an argument and said some pretty nasty things..and they hurt you..or you hurt them..and you..or they..responded with something like I cant stand you..or I hate you..or i hope i never speak to you again..

Does that mean you don't love them, or that they don't love you? No. It doesn't. If she didn't care or love him why did she care that he had a soul, why did she care that he was HURTING and needed help?

You don't go out your way to help someone that YOU HATE..or don't have feelings for. I think the reason she had went out of her way to help him is because she had realized WHY he had attempted to rape her..she had realized that what she did in the past was wrong..and that what he had done was wrong..

I don't think it's just that she felt guilty and wanted to make it even..but maybe Buffy realized that despite everything he was the one person that was there for her no matter what, no matter how wrong she was, no matter how she acted, what she said or did, he truly cared for her.

And there is no way you can say that the last word "spike" is not significant, not because I am a spuffy shipper..but hey the show was on for 7 YEARS...and the last word was "Spike"..if it was not important do you think Joss would have ended it with his name..

We all know that Joss..does a lot of small things..like that for a reason..c'mon.
 
I am a huge anti-Spuffy person, but I wouldn't deny that she felt something for him, but I don't believe it was love.
 
Kimm said:
I think that in the last episode when she realized he was about to give his life she wanted to give him the one thing she knew he had always wanted from her....her love....so she said "I love you" and he knew she didn't mean it and called her on it....I genuinely think she said it more for his benefit than out of actual truth.

I'm not saying she didn't care for him because it's obvious that she did....but I really don't think it was love.

Therefore....her saying "Spike" as her last word on the show didn't indicate love....in my opinion.
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I think this analysis is the one most consistent with Buffy's character. She said in answer to a direct question about Spike from Xander that he was "in (her) heart". Not that she loved him. She has compassion, admiration and respect for him, and maybe love of some kind, but she doesn't say it...until she realizes he is about to die to save her and the others (and everyone else). Buffy does what most compassionate humans do to comfort the dying...say something that will give them comfort...ease the passing, as it were. That's why Spike is so gentle with his "no you don't". He knew why she was doing it, he appreciated it, but he wanted her to know he was aware of what was happening. It has nothing to do with major breakthroughs of the character of Buffy...it has everything to do with the compassion she has for others she cares for...even if she doesn't "love" them.
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
Well, kind of, sort of, almost agrees actually.
Actually Spike say thanks but i know you don't mean it after she says i love you..that also could mean i love you for doing this and maybe it was because she was overcome with emotion at the time so she said it, cause she was going to loose her friend and former lover.So i'm not saying it wasn't geniune.
plus i agree with Nerd4hire.
 
I never thought of it exactly like that before KD. It's something to consider.

I wonder if it means anything she slept with Spike the night before. Sex, or no sex doesn't that kind of complicate the idea of non-romantic affection, especially if you combine it with everything that happened before.

I wonder if we can take anything from the First's comment of "sleeping in your dead lover's arms".

Also I wonder what it means in End of Days when Spike is telling Buffy how spending the night just holding her in his arms was the best night of his life, then he asks her if she was there (meaning, did you feel it too), and she answers, "I was".

How did that other one go, between her and Angel when he smells Spike all over her? She says something like "No, I don't see any fat grandchildren in the offing between me and Spike...but he is in my head." What does that mean?
 
postmortem said:
Good point. But considering he couldn't have convinced the leading actress and majority of the cast, that's a given 🙂
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I don't really know what you mean by that.

You have to give me something to work with, why do you think she had no feeling for Spike?
 
I think she's talking about that comment SMG made shortly after Season 5, where she said something along the line of Spike and Buffy could become good buddies given a couple of years. Either that or the one where SMG said she thought it was out of character for Buffy to allow herself to be abused by Spike in the balcony scene of Season 6.

Where the comment about the rest of the cast comes from, I haven't a clue.

Personally I'm not sure it matters. Sarah is just an actress. Joss points her at Spike and says smile - she smiles. To me Sarah's opinion about who Buffy was matters about as much as the average fanboards message poster's opinion. Even if it did though, I'm not sure Sarah ever did make a clear statement concerning whether or not Buffy meant it when she told Spike she loved him in Chosen. Surely she's been asked, you would think, so I don't know, maybe she did make a comment. Even if she did make one though, it doesn't matter IMHO.

But yeah, I agree, if Joss Whedon says something, it matters. Now if Joss Whedon comes out and says Spike and Buffy left the series being the kind of pals Xander and Buffy were, I'll just shrug my shoulders and say "Oh well". I seriously doubt there's any danger of that though.
 
It seems to me, the three issues people have when they deny the truth of Buffy being in love with Spike are..

1. The non-rape
2. They were not romantically intimate.
3. Spike's "No, you don't, but thanks for saying it".

1:
Why would Buffy forgive Spike after he "attempted to rape" her?

The answer to that, I think, is very simple.

Giles: To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's, it's not done
because people deserve it. It's done because they need it.
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Now, I'm not for a second suggesting that regardless of Spike's actions after the "attempted rape" that Buffy would and should have forgiven him. The truth of the matter is, after it, he tried to be a better man. Without forgiveness he might never have gotten to that place.

2:
Whedon explained this issue on the commentary for "Chosen". He didn't want to send out the wrong message, because you do get some silly people who take things like "Buffy" as gospel.

3:
I remember reading an interview by Whedon, where he commented on a moment in "The Empire Strikes Back". When Leia says to Solo, "I love you", and he replies, "I know".

The shmultz standard response would be, "I love you, too". Buffy wasn't(for the most part) a cheesy soap opera. If you wanted or expected Spike to reply with "I love you, too", then you should have been watching "Charmed", or some other silly show.


killerdwarf said:
Not that she loved him. She has compassion, admiration and respect for him, and maybe love of some kind, but she doesn't say it...until she realizes he is about to die to save her and the others (and everyone else).
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Ok. For the life of me I can't remember who said this..

"There are only two types of stories in the world. Boy meets girl, or hero goes on quest".

Now, if the culmination of Spike and Buffy's journey isn't that she falls in love with him, what's the point in starting it?

I personally think it's SO clear that Buffy is in love with Spike, I just don't understand how anybody can truly dispute the fact.

I mean look at the final season.
Just about every other character at some point states or accuses Buffy of being in love with Spike. She denies it.
So much of the season is about Buffy being closed off to others around her, she doesn't open up and share her feelings. Then she makes a breakthrough, as all heroes do at the end of their journey, she shares her power. The weight of the world is no longer on her shoulders. She can open up, and she does. She tells Spike the truth, or should I say, vocally admits it to herself.
 
D
drtroy
[No message]
Well at the end of the day you truely can see how Buffy felt about Spike, proud and IN love at least that's the way i see it and also how Joss sees it
and i think that is a solid prove
 
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