Bullying - Online and In life in General

[Schillaci]

Dude, you're really coming across as though you're hacked off about something that has obviously gone on. And the easiest way to deal with it is via PM, rather than continuing in a thread where you accept but disagree with member's ideas. This is a circle and we can go round and round all day long, but we'll be covering the same ground.

And you're coming across as someone who was too lazy/ignorant to read the first post in the topic. Communication is how we exchange thoughts, ideas, discuss subjects. Its the whole point for the forum. To communicate. I've posted 3 maybe 4 times in this topic for the above reasons, perhaps you shouldn't have bothered.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Hmm...one could argue that your post is a perfect example of berating other people into not challenging you anymore...

 

[Schillaci]

Hmm...one could argue that your post is a perfect example of berating other people into not challenging you anymore...

What part of what she said, with regards to my posts in this topic, had any merit Buffy? Absolutely nada. Not to mention she misunderstood what I meant by todays standards.

 

[Brandon]

You're saying this is a topic about bullying,that you were called a bully, but that it's not about you, yet when anyone does not agree with what you are saying.. you proceed to BULLY them as in try to break down their opinion (opinion being the operative word here) and tell them, that they are wrong, and that what they are saying does not count, unless they share the same perspective as you. At least that is the vibe that I got while reading through. It doesn't matter what YOU feel like being a bully is because EVERYBODY's opinion is different, and it really only applies to the person BEING bullied. So I think that the consensus is one should think carefully before they speak as well as before they type, and don't aggressively and actively pursue the drama they feel they "try" to avoid.

 

[buffetofsporks]

I've payed attention to this thread loosely at best so I apologize if what I'm about to say is redundant.

As far as online stuff - When you make a comment about someone intending to cut them down, intimidate them, or make them feel inferior about their opinions/appearance/personality, it is bullying. Whether it is intentional or not, that person is going to take it a certain way. There is no reason for this. There's a way to get your point across without seeming overbearing and attacking the other person's opinion.

Now, if you're just trying to be rude and confrontational for no reason at all, just to start an argument for argument's sake or because you can hide behind your computer screen...you're not worth my time, because I have better things to do than than sit here and go back and forth with someone who has that kind of mentality. Not everyone's like me, however. Some people are going to take personal attacks on the internet into their day-to-day lives. It's just who they are. They really cannot help it.

So cut it out. There's no real point to it. If you consider yourself an adult, then let's all try and act like adults SHOULD act.

Also, this is not directed at anyone in particular. I've barely skimmed the thread, I'm just making a generalized statement.

 

[Schillaci]

yet when anyone does not agree with what you are saying.. you proceed to BULLY them as in try to break down their opinion .

What utter trash. Show me these examples in this topic where I've bullied someone.

The whole reason I started this topic is because I haven't been around buffyboards often and apparently there has been a lot of bullying going on, and I thought it was a good idea to open a discussion on bullying and better understand what it is. So after doing that I decided to bully people in this topic?!

Stay classy. Dictionaries exist for a reason, they explain the definitions of words. Words like bully, conviction, ignorant, misconception, presumption.

 

[BuffyElevated]

What utter trash. Show me these examples in this topic where I've bullied someone.........
........
Stay classy.

If you'd like everyone to "stay classy", it might help if you think about the way you're wording what you're saying in here. Because we can't hear your tone, it's coming across to more than a couple of us that you're getting pissed off and being a bastard to people in your responses. Just sayin.

 

[Brandon]

bully (noun) -

a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.

to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

================================================

Everybody loses their temper at some point, Anger is necessary, and natural, and useful. And if you or anyone else here is attempting to suggest that you've never been nasty to someone, then I suggest such persons grab ahold of this rope, and I'll help pull you out that big egyptian river that's floating you downstream.



I guess we weren't all raised right, hmm? Also, let me introduce you to a little thing called Sadomasochism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.



Reading this at face value I don't think I could disagree more, maybe you're responding to something I didn't catch, but I hardly see how this simplifies the definition of bullying. It looks like a very vague blanket statement that just takes almost no consideration for a million other things that affect behaviour/thought. Life isn't simply a case of cause - affect cause - affect - cause - affect. One after the other. There are lots of things happening simultaneously with every single person.



That coin has two sides, as I will elaborate on further down.




'E-man, surely you see the irony of such a statement, and the contradictory nature of it. I guess most likely you do, and that was the point, and how you tend to shift the discussion ever so slightly with your introduction to a topic.




So, if I picked on you, persistently, and you responding in kind, but in a defensive manner as I was the initial aggressor. Would I be bullying you?
How would other people percieve what is going on, and what is more important?
Bullying is a two way street.

In my opinion, bullying is easily the most overused unmerited accusation in present time.

Calling someone a derogatory term once, is not bullying, and does not make one a bully. Trying to get your point across with conviction is not bullying. Losing your temper in the heat of debate is not bullying.

A bully relentlessly picks on their victim with the intent to cause them pain/harm.

A troll is not a bully, they're an attention seeker(with issues).

Calling every instance of a debate getting heated, bullying, or somebody using a derogatory word through tacky humour, or lapse in judement, loss of temper, bullying, etc is about as productive as banging your head against a wall to cure a headache.


I have a bit more to say on the subject later, I'm short of time now.

I happen to think post SCREAMS of arrogance, if we are going to say you are in the act of being a bully which would mean arrogant and overbearing.

Not to mention the fact that you start off this post with a crude picture of how perspective is important, in this case based on the looks of another.

In this entire post, not ONCE do you say.. "well I guess I see what you are saying, maybe there is something to that," but you don't. You say.. I couldn't disagree more, that's wrong, you obviously didn't read my entire post because I am completely right, how could you have the opinion that you do?

What part of what she said, with regards to my posts in this topic, had any merit Buffy? Absolutely nada. Not to mention she misunderstood what I meant by todays standards.

Who are you to decide the merit of anyone's statement? Do you have a superior power I haven't figured out?

And you're coming across as someone who was too lazy/ignorant to read the first post in the topic. Communication is how we exchange thoughts, ideas, discuss subjects. Its the whole point for the forum. To communicate. I've posted 3 maybe 4 times in this topic for the above reasons, perhaps you shouldn't have bothered.

All someone was saying to you was that you should take it to the PMs because this was obviously a personally issue. You don't want to generally discuss bullying, you want to discuss something that happened to you where you were accused of being a bully, an accusation you felt was wrong, but when people came on here and gave their opinions of bullying, you told them they were wrong? So I am thinking you should write a book that we can maybe make law as to what is defined as bullying by your standards and ONLY your standards?

What utter trash. Show me these examples in this topic where I've bullied someone.

The whole reason I started this topic is because I haven't been around buffyboards often and apparently there has been a lot of bullying going on, and I thought it was a good idea to open a discussion on bullying and better understand what it is. So after doing that I decided to bully people in this topic?!

Stay classy. Dictionaries exist for a reason, they explain the definitions of words. Words like bully, conviction, ignorant, misconception, presumption.

In conclusion I guess from my understanding is that you can be arrogant, rude, completely ignorant to the opinions and words of others, overbearing and not be a bully? I think many of those terms coincide with each other.

I did stay classy, I felt like you were "acting a fool" and going round in circles, not getting anywhere. I felt like you weren't listening to anyone because you weren't hearing what you wanted to hear. I think you created this topic to star a stir, and to maybe to unite people in your misguided view of how it's okay to act, and I don't agree with that. 🙂

 

[Schillaci]

I'm not going over point for point your entire post, because it has very litte substance to it. Several people posted that we were coming to a better understanding on the topic, and other similar statements, how is that going round in circles?

I wanted to know what subtle bullying was on the internet. That was the new phrase brought up in the topic after several of us had come to a similar place on this whole bullying 'phenomenon'. This topic has nothing to do with me, and I specifically stated in the initial post I didn't want it to be about me.

 

[JCC]

If you state your opinion, and someone clearly disagrees and is somewhat confrontational about it, that's not bullying just because they didn't say "I respect your opinion" first meekly and instead decided to straightforwardly tell you that you're wrong. Maybe it hurts your feelings when people don't give your opinions the respect that you feel that they deserve, but to call that bullying undermines actual bullying. Perhaps we should all try to be more respectful of other people's opinions rather than being dogmatic*, but that doesn't make people acting to the contrary bullies, just people that don't sugarcoat their opinions, to the distaste of other people.









*no, we shouldn't

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I lurk around here, now and again, particularly when Schillaci is around because his threads are generally entertaining.

In all the years I have "known" him, even back on CoA (along with the likes of Alyson and ShanshuVamp_Angel (I think that was her name!)) he's always been worth a read.

There are many names I could use to describe his behaviour at times, names that I am sure could be applied to me too I wouldn't wonder, but a "bully" isn't one of them - on the contrary, I have known him to send the occasional message when he thinks someone is being ridiculed a little too much (though at the time I would probably argue they deserved it), because I believe if it was actual bullying, its not something he abides.

Anyway, this thread is indicative of the very problem with this website, the 'cry wolf' nature of bullying, specifically regarding people who don't agree with you.

If you don't agree with someone and use words like ignorant or lazy, thats not bullying, that is having a different opinion and using words that you believe to be in the correct context.

If you don't like being called ignorant, then you need to get your namby-pamby arse into the real world because everybody is ignorant of somethings.

The other problem this thread shows up is that when people perceive that someone is being 'bullied' they all jump against the perceived "aggressor", in effect becoming the bullies themselves (if you want to use the very poor definition of bullying that they keep bandying around).

Look at Schillaci response to EWR (who if you read the comment his response is for really ha misunderstood because Schillaci has explained in the thread what is going on and that its a discussion, not about something that happened involving him).
Break down what your actual problem is with his comment?
There isn't actually anything wrong with it - calling someone ignorant of the facts is not wrong, particularly if they are giving an opinion on something and they haven't read the whole debate.
Calling someone lazy is not wrong, particularly if they could simply read a few comments to make them able to understand what is going on.
Telling someone they needn't have bothered "communicating" in a topic specifically at someone when, from he perceived "aggressors" point of view, it seems they haven't paid much attention to the overall thread and its key points is a valid response because what IS the point of entering a debate if you can't be bothered reading up on the topic.

Nah, this thread shows the exact reason this forum is declining, one incident has happened and people want to jump on a bandwagon.

I say grow up, get a tougher skin and go outside a bit more!

 

[BuffyElevated]

I love how some members of this forum keep telling the others to "get a tougher skin" and other things to that context. Why the hell should anyone have to "get a tougher skin" just so that they can enjoy themselves on a forum, whether it be here or anywhere else in life? That, to me, is the rude people of the world who refuse to try to be respectful of others' opinions saying "This is how I am. I'm going to say whatever I want and you're just going to have to take it." Well, excuse me, but I don't think this is acceptable at ALL. Even if you don't agree with what someone's saying, you have every right to disagree, but do it in a tactful manner. Quit coming in and telling people who are offended at being called names when they were just stating their opinion that they need to grow up or whatever. It's not immature to take offense to rude behavior. Whether it be on a one-time occasion or in a case of being bullied constantly.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I love how some members of this forum keep telling the others to "get a tougher skin" and other things to that context. Why the hell should anyone have to "get a tougher skin" just so that they can enjoy themselves on a forum, whether it be here or anywhere else in life? That, to me, is the rude people of the world who refuse to try to be respectful of others' opinions saying "This is how I am. I'm going to say whatever I want and you're just going to have to take it." Well, excuse me, but I don't think this is acceptable at ALL. Even if you don't agree with what someone's saying, you have every right to disagree, but do it in a tactful manner. Quit coming in and telling people who are offended at being called names when they were just stating their opinion that they need to grow up or whatever. It's not immature to take offense to rude behavior. Whether it be on a one-time occasion or in a case of being bullied constantly.

Yes, I decided to hang around see what people would say to my post.

I personally love how members of a forum can get irate over people suggesting that members should get a tougher skin, then get very aggressive.

The people who need to get a tougher skin are the very people who can't seem to appreciate that being called ignorant isn't being rude, it is stating a fact.

If it upsets you that people use words correctly, then you really need to toughen up.

People here might like to live in a world wear everything is sugar-coated and then claim to be bullied by someone who cuts through the bullshit and says it as it is, but thats not anyone buts the one wh is offendeds problem.

This whole forum, as it currently stands, is a joke. This forum has been somewhat successful since it began in 2002 (I believe) but in this last year things have gone from bad to worse and threads like this show why its unlikely to get better.

The standard of members is declining and the standard of debate is too.

Heck the owner of the forum started a thread about how young is too young to watch Buffy and she had to start it by acknowledging that it might cause arguments.

Thats the place you guys have created, thats the forum that currently stands because people get so easily offended by what others say.

Its pathetic, it really is.

 

[Revolver]

It does seem to me that people are often too quick to assume people are trying to insult them. I've read through this entire thing, and gotten a much different reaction from some of the posts than other people have. I don't think anyone came into this thread thinking, "I can't wait to insult the crap out of this guy!" Rather, people have come in here to have their say on the topic and when someone strongly disagrees, it escalates a bit. Not every foul is intentional. Best to try and keep that in mind.

 

[Brandon]

If you state your opinion, and someone clearly disagrees and is somewhat confrontational about it, that's not bullying just because they didn't say "I respect your opinion" first meekly and instead decided to straightforwardly tell you that you're wrong. Maybe it hurts your feelings when people don't give your opinions the respect that you feel that they deserve, but to call that bullying undermines actual bullying. Perhaps we should all try to be more respectful of other people's opinions rather than being dogmatic*, but that doesn't make people acting to the contrary bullies, just people that don't sugarcoat their opinions, to the distaste of other people.









*no, we shouldn't

My POINT is he is being ridiculously arrogant. If you then decide that everything you say is correct, that no other opinion matters but your own and anyone who says anything to the contrary, you call them lazy, ignorant, that what they say is utter trash, or tell them their opinion has no merit at al, is that not arrogant?

To me if I were meaker of a person, less aggressive and I posted several times in a forum and each time I was told that I was my opinion is ridiculous, that I am lazy or too ignorant to read, that I might want to check my dictionary because I am way off base, that I have no merit, that I was stupid for thinking the way I thought, all by the same person, well I would call that person a bully, and at the very least, completely condescending.

People say this board is going downhill and that people need to grow a thicker skin only when the situation is not about THEM. However, when people don't get their way, or when people don't agree, suddenly it's the end of the world, and "thicker skin" seems to fly right out of the window.

 

[Buffy Summers]

This whole forum, as it currently stands, is a joke. This forum has been somewhat successful since it began in 2002 (I believe) but in this last year things have gone from bad to worse and threads like this show why its unlikely to get better.

The standard of members is declining and the standard of debate is too.

Heck the owner of the forum started a thread about how young is too young to watch Buffy and she had to start it by acknowledging that it might cause arguments.

Thats the place you guys have created, thats the forum that currently stands because people get so easily offended by what others say.

Its pathetic, it really is.

On the contrary, this forum is declining because we backed off, we allowed people to argue more, we asked them to not get so offended at things. And some people decided that that makes it okay to call other people stupid, and lazy, and ignorant. And it's not. (I don't need a dictionary to see that.) And a lot of good members left the board because they didn't like having to deal with people who get their jollies by trying to make others feel small.

People can disagree and argue without it coming down to "You should never post here because you're an idiot". That's what's pathetic - that there are people here who can't seem to say anything without it becoming, "I'm smarter than you so don't argue with me." If you want to be able to belittle others instead of proving your arguments with facts, then there are plenty of other boards out there that you can do it on. That is not what this place has ever been about.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

To me if I were meaker of a person, less aggressive and I posted several times in a forum and each time I was told that I was my opinion is ridiculous, that I am lazy or too ignorant to read, that I might want to check my dictionary because I am way off base, that I have no merit, that I was stupid for thinking the way I thought, all by the same person, well I would call that person a bully, and at the very least, completely condescending.

Unless it IS ridiculous (and that happens).
Or you are too lazy to read all the posts yet still decide to make a comment.
Or you are ignorant.
Or that you might want to look up definitions of certain words.

If that is the case, the person is not a 'bully' but merely someone telling you he truth!

People say this board is going downhill and that people need to grow a thicker skin only when the situation is not about THEM. However, when people don't get their way, or when people don't agree, suddenly it's the end of the world, and "thicker skin" seems to fly right out of the window.

Well as everyone else here, I can only speak for myself, but as someone who has been on both sides of that particular fence, I can tell you that what you are saying here is absolute bollocks.
To try and alleviate your ignorance, I suggest you read more threads.

---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

People can disagree and argue without it coming down to "You should never post here because you're an idiot". That's what's pathetic - that there are people here who can't seem to say anything without it becoming, "I'm smarter than you so don't argue with me." If you want to be able to belittle others instead of proving your arguments with facts, then there are plenty of other boards out there that you can do it on. That is not what this place has ever been about.

I suggest you reread this thread.
People already have views on certain members, thats fine, but if you actually read this thread the reverse is happening.
Its not anyone saying 'I am smarter than you so don't argue with me' its more like 'You think you know everything and you don't' followed by an immediate throwing of the toys out of the pram.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Maybe you need to reread the thread as well EB.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Maybe you need to reread the thread as well EB.

I have done, but sadly I haven't read it with any preconceived notions of certain members!


*Thats not specifically directed at you BS.

 

[captain peroxide]

Originally Quoted by Schillaci

No, I've seen bullying. I know it happens, and compared to some of the experiences I know about, lots of peoples stories of bullying are, patheticly dramaqueenesque. Which frankly in todays standards of what bullying is, we're all bullies.
-----------------------------------------------------------


What stories were those then huh!
Do you feel for people at all,no matter how insignificant those
stories seem,they are a big deal for them.

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

I have seen tonight how nasty people can be to others,and some people have no place on a forum.Where do they get off.
I'm no angel,but christ these people are damn right bloody rude!Whatever happened to respect?Now its a thread about arguing,the snydest remarks,hes a bully,hes not a bully,and dictionaries.Hmm.