Cangel

[angelchick182]

I don't have a definitive answer on this one, so I'll just talk it through. Back in the day - I was hardcore Bangel, even though I knew it was doomed. I agree with an earlier comment that the same reasons Bangel didn't work are pretty much the same reasons Cangel wouldn't either. Buffy and Cordelia can both be called Champions and both can be considered something other than totally human, but the long term goes deeper than that. Neither couple could have a normal life - a family, day-time outings, a consumate relationship, or growing old *together*(and this is based on the events of the show only - I know that something has happened in the Angel comics, though I'm not sure what - please don't tell me, I haven't read them yet). So, as someone said earlier, I don't understand what Angel thought had changed so much between when he left Buffy and when he wanted to hook up with Cordy. I understand where all the Cangels are coming from about how, after all the time spent, confidence shared, and experiences together, Cangel was a natural progression - but I still wasn't a huge fan of it. Besides that, all through late-Season 3, my heart absolutely broke for Groo, and aside from the fact that I enjoyed every minute of his character that year, I don't know why he even stayed around as long as he did. I never thought Cordelia handled that right, because even though she didn't seem to be aware that she loved Angel, she had to realize that she wasn't there for Groo.

 

[groovygarden]

the same reasons Bangel didn't work are pretty much the same reasons Cangel wouldn't either. Buffy and Cordelia can both be called Champions and both can be considered something other than totally human, but the long term goes deeper than that. Neither couple could have a normal life - a family, day-time outings, a consumate relationship, or growing old *together* So, as someone said earlier, I don't understand what Angel thought had changed so much between when he left Buffy and when he wanted to hook up with Cordy.

I think the difference between Buffy & Cordy was choice. Buffy was chosen to be a champion, Cordy got to make the choice. And it was a choice she made time and time again. Skip offered her a perfect life, and she still found her way back to Angel. She chose to be made part-demon to keep the visions. She chose to be a higher being.


It came across through all the series of Buffy that, although she would do her best, and save the world (a lot), Buffy, understandably, didn't "want to be the one". She wanted to be "a normal girl, falling asleep in the arms of her normal boyfriend". I don't think Cordy wanted that.

 

[MSchett]

Bangel>Cangel

It just seems like Angel and Cordy shouldnt be a couple. Angel and Doyle were "best friends" and after Doyles little fling with Cordy and then sacraficing himself to save her/angel/those wierd demons it just seems wrong that he would do go for Cordy even after a few years.

Also I think that Angel and Faith would've made a great couple after he saves her soul in S1. After shes changes they really are alot alike. Go Fangel?

 

[Primal Slayer]

I look at Cordy/Angel the same way I look at Buffy/Xander. At the very beginning the possibility for a relationship couldve been there, but as the show went on, I looked at these two are somewhat becoming best friends/siblings basically. When I look at Cordy and Angel I dont see romance, I see them working better as friends than lovers.

 

[angelchick182]

I think the difference between Buffy & Cordy was choice. Buffy was chosen to be a champion, Cordy got to make the choice. And it was a choice she made time and time again. Skip offered her a perfect life, and she still found her way back to Angel. She chose to be made part-demon to keep the visions. She chose to be a higher being.


It came across through all the series of Buffy that, although she would do her best, and save the world (a lot), Buffy, understandably, didn't "want to be the one". She wanted to be "a normal girl, falling asleep in the arms of her normal boyfriend". I don't think Cordy wanted that.

I understand your point, and it's pretty much the same reason a lot of people think Buffy should ultimately choose Spike over Angel. But the origin of Buffy and Cordy's Champion status isn't my point. Noble as it was for Cordy to choose to give up a perfect life to rejoin Angel and the mission, it still doesn't change the fact that at that point in time - nothing had changed in Angel's situation from the time he left Buffy. He couldn't offer Cordy any more a normal life than he could Buffy, though "normal life" would be a relative term in either situation.

I still, in the end, come back to the position that I've always thought that Angel and Cordy worked best as friends.

 

[Lou]

Personally, I liked Angel and Cordy a LOT more than Angel and Buffy.
As I've said before, I think Angel and Buffy had a very "superficial" typical High School Romance. Attraction and the benefit of "something" in common, and the whole "it'll be the end of the world if we're not together" (which was slightly more on track for Bangel), but not really based on anything "real".

Maybe I'm a cynic because I never really felt that. I mean, I LOVED my high school boyfriend, and I still do. We're great friends. But, I knew even at the time it was STUPID to start naming our children or anything more because I was so young. He seemed to also. We were just kind of "biding our time" and chose to do it together.

I think Spuffy was built on more. At least in the sense that I felt like Spike loved Buffy for an ACTUAL reason. And he not only had those reasons, but chose to change his life for them and tell her all the time what those reasons were. Angel just seemed to kind of shape up because a hot girl walked in the room. And, in the end, I think Buffy grew a LOT because of Spike. She grew to see that people can't just be tossed into categories of "good" and "bad". I AM glad Spuffy ended though, because I don't think it was good for Spike to have to live like that because it seems it's taking Buffy a LONG time to "bake".

But, Cangel seemed based on something SO much....just more. They were both "fish out of water" in LA. They seemed to both be kind of floundering in their new lives. It was cute to see them grow and stick together, mainly because of Doyle who neither of them really seemed to overly adore all that much.
And it was adorable when Doyle died because they really just kind of stuck to each other like glue.
I think ALL of that is VERY realistic.
Cordy's hurt when Angel fires them is SO real. Wes and Gunn aren't happy, but Cordy's REALLY HURT.
Although the clothes scene is one of the CUTEST scenes I've ever seen, I think it's also very telling. If I have to think DEEP about it and not how adorable they look hopping around, it's not really a sign of how "shallow" Cordy still is, but really how much it meant to her that Angel still not only knew what she liked but cared enough to go GET it for her.
I often wish my husband would "get that". And actual EFFORT, no matter how small or how it pertains to the "hurt" means SO much more than just an apology.

Anyway, as time goes on, it shows so clearly that they didn't just say, "Oh, he/she is HOT" that it was actually built on the love, trust, and respect that they had for each other.
Personally, I think it's the most stable and BELIEVABLE love in the whole Buffy/Angel-verse.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I understand your point, and it's pretty much the same reason a lot of people think Buffy should ultimately choose Spike over Angel. But the origin of Buffy and Cordy's Champion status isn't my point. Noble as it was for Cordy to choose to give up a perfect life to rejoin Angel and the mission, it still doesn't change the fact that at that point in time - nothing had changed in Angel's situation from the time he left Buffy. He couldn't offer Cordy any more a normal life than he could Buffy, though "normal life" would be a relative term in either situation.

I still, in the end, come back to the position that I've always thought that Angel and Cordy worked best as friends.

But that isn't the point people are making. Yes, Angel's situation did not change. Cordelia's situation, however, is completely different to Buffy's. He couldn't offer her a normal life, but she did not want a normal life. That is clear from very early on. She wanted to give up her life for the PTB and to Help the Helpless, Buffy, deep down, didn't. Not when Bangel finished, anyway.

Cordelia and Angel were wonderful together. I didn't see it as forced at all. No-one has really posted any kind of complelling argument on that point, yet everyone keeps going back to it. It developed over 3 seasons, and they went through so much more together than Bangel. They even got the (short) chance to see what it would be like to be a family together. And Kyrumption? I always saw that as an in-joke. Champions being attracted to Champions? Kind of like how Buffy never has a meaningful relationship with Man Drinking Coffee in Bronze No. 2, or Angel never finds true love with Wolfram and Hart Attorney No. 24, no?

 

[angelchick182]

But that isn't the point people are making. Yes, Angel's situation did not change. Cordelia's situation, however, is completely different to Buffy's. He couldn't offer her a normal life, but she did not want a normal life. That is clear from very early on. She wanted to give up her life for the PTB and to Help the Helpless, Buffy, deep down, didn't. Not when Bangel finished, anyway.

I see what you're saying, and I agree that at the time Bangel finished, Buffy wanted a real future, which I also think is something that changed in later seasons.

This is just one of those Buffy/Angelverse topics that pretty much every fan is resolved on one way or the other. Each side of the fence presents their case, and it makes for a good read, but I doubt many will change how they see it - since there's no right or wrong answer here.

I didn't like the idea of Cangel back then, and I don't like the idea of Cangel now(after I've just re-watched the series). There've been lots of logical arguments against that, and I understand them, but for me, it's about emotion, not logic.

Now I think it's time for a :grouphug: for the Bangels & Cangels!

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I see what you're saying, and I agree that at the time Bangel finished, Buffy wanted a real future, which I also think is something that changed in later seasons.

This is just one of those Buffy/Angelverse topics that pretty much every fan is resolved on one way or the other. Each side of the fence presents their case, and it makes for a good read, but I doubt many will change how they see it - since there's no right or wrong answer here.

I didn't like the idea of Cangel back then, and I don't like the idea of Cangel now(after I've just re-watched the series). There've been lots of logical arguments against that, and I understand them, but for me, it's about emotion, not logic.

Now I think it's time for a :grouphug: for the Bangels & Cangels!

:grouphug:

I can totally understand people having different emotional responses to different ships, and I have the....utmost.....respect.....for......Bangels......(that was hard), and any other ships. Except Biles. That's just icky. It's the fact that so many Bangels completely dismiss Cangel out of hand. Personal preference, I can deal with, but a lot of it is sheer prejudice and only seeing what one wants to see. But I'll shut up now.


Actually, wait. I think an historic moment has been reached. A ship war (involving Bangels no less ;p) that has dissolved to :grouphug: in less than 30 posts? *runs over to the end of the world thread with a new faith in humanity*



Lol. We have an End of the World thread.

 

[Karol]

Gosh, i *really* dont like them together... the new Cordy, all smooth and calm, also annoying.. lol

When I see those two together seems pointless to me, like the writers were pushing too hard.

 

[DarkAvenger]

I don't agree with that.. :/ If angel should be with someone that one should be cordelia. 😉

 

[randiann]

I still stand by my beliefs that Cangel is the root of all evil. And senseless.

Cangel BAD!

 

[Anya2012]

But...Cordy has changed so much since her Buffy days. She's alot nicer and kinder and not so high maintenance. I loved this pairing as there were more chemistry and it wasn't as predictable as Bangle was. (Sorry but I hated the Bangle pairing. So predictable and could see coming a mile away) anyway this is my view.

 

[randiann]

But...Cordy has changed so much since her Buffy days. She's alot nicer and kinder and not so high maintenance. I loved this pairing as there were more chemistry

Yeah in a backwoods "hey lets date my sister" kind of way. Their chemistry was totally brother/sister, NOT romantic at all. Cangel is just yucky and completely false. And, besides once while being posessed by ghosts, did they actually ever physically have any romantic happenings? Your welcome doesn't count as Cordelia was technically in a coma throughout the entire ep. Cangel lacks the passion and intensity of Bangel, and its more a relationship (if you can even call it that with as little screen time as it got) of convienence (sp?) than of anything else. They are around each other and no other single people, therefore they start to like each other for that reason only. It's not true attraction.

 

[Lou]

Hey! There was Groo and she basically dumped him because of her love for Angel! Don't make me angry woman! I still have my konking pan around here!

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Yeah in a backwoods "hey lets date my sister" kind of way. Their chemistry was totally brother/sister, NOT romantic at all. Cangel is just yucky and completely false. And, besides once while being posessed by ghosts, did they actually ever physically have any romantic happenings? Your welcome doesn't count as Cordelia was technically in a coma throughout the entire ep. Cangel lacks the passion and intensity of Bangel, and its more a relationship (if you can even call it that with as little screen time as it got) of convienence (sp?) than of anything else. They are around each other and no other single people, therefore they start to like each other for that reason only. It's not true attraction.

I find Cangel a lot more believable than Bangel. And less creepy. 200 year old vampire sees 15 year old girl and immediately falls in love? Seems a little more backwoods to me. But aside from that, Bangel is a different kind of love. Bangel is the big, epic, romantic forbidden love. Cangel is much more slow-burning. It was built on intimate friendship. Buffy and Angel were never really friends. They were lovers, but not friends. Also, the fact that Cordelia and Angel never actually got physical is part of the whole tragedy, but the one time Angel imagined it it gave him perfect happiness. He was in love.

 

[caritas08]

I like Cordelia for Angel better than I like Angel for Cordelia if that makes any sense (she's too good for him in my opinion). Although I'm a Cordelia/Doyle shipper, I actually liked the Cangel relationship that was developing until the writers chickened out because the fans "weren't liking it." I think Cordelia and Angel had a deep, mature friendship and love that developed into a romantic attachment. I also liked the idea because Angel and Cordelia had so much history together since the start of the show. I don't see anything wrong with Angel and Buffy moving on and getting other love interests. I believe you can have more than one soulmate in life.

On a different note, Buffy never seemed too young for Angel when she was in high school, but Nina seemed waayy too young for him and I found that "relationship" a little disturbing.