Captain Marvel is a villain

[Skanky Vamp]

From DailyWire

If you thought Captain Marvel was insufferable before, wait until you see this newly released clip from the movie, which is an extended version of a scene included in the theatrical release. In the original scene, Captain Marvel, aka Carol Danvers (played by Brie Larson) crash lands into a Blockbuster Video store in Los Angeles. While looking at a map, a man asks her, “How about a smile for me?” When he goes into the store, she steals his motorcycle. Hooray for feminism! A man creepily asked for a smile, so she commits grand theft auto. That’s not at all a disproportionate or insane response.

In the extended version, which was released exclusively to USA Today on Thursday, Danvers becomes a straight up villain. The man, played by Rob Kazinsky, rides up to the Blockbuster while Danvers is looking at a map, wearing her superhero costume. “Nice scuba suit,” the man says jokingly. Danvers glares at him and goes back to her map.

The man then asks, “Do you need a ride, Darlin’?” and pushes down the top of her map. “How about a smile for me?” he asks, in the creepiest way possible. She responds, “a smile?” And he says, “Yeah, you want me to help you? The least you could do is give me a smile.” To be sure, this is jerky behavior. No one owes you a smile or anything else just because you offered to help them (she hadn’t even accepted any such help). But what Danvers does next proves she’s the real villain in this scene.

She asks the man if he’d accept a handshake, and he does. She says her name is Vers, to which the man responds, “People call me, ‘The Don.’” With no other provocation, Danvers tightly grips the man’s hand so he can’t get away. She then uses her super “hero” strength as a vice grip and sends the man to his knees in pain. “Here’s a proposition for you,” Danvers says. “You’re gonna give me your jacket, your helmet, and your motorcycle. And in return, I’m going to let you keep your hand.”

“Take it,” the man says in extreme pain while handing Danvers his keys. “What, no smile?” Danvers asks with a grin.

Then she looks at a display mannequin, steals its clothes (did the shopkeeper also ask her to smile?) and drives off on the motorcycle driving on the wrong side of the road, nearly hitting a car (did the driver ask her to smile?)

Let’s recap. After a jerk suggested he would help her in a creepy way and asked for a smile, Danvers crushed his hand, carjacked him, took his clothes, and stole items from a nearby clothing store and broke traffic laws. And this is supposed to be a celebration of feminism and rebuke of toxic masculinity?

In the original scene, Danvers committed grand theft auto. In the extended scene, she commits assault, a carjacking, a mugging, shoplifting, and a possible driving felony. Here’s how USA Today described this same scene:

After creepily sticking his nose into Carol's travel business, she offers a handshake and he introduces himself as "The Don." However, she uses her energy-filled fists to bring him to his knees. Carol asks for his jacket, helmet and bike, "and in return, I'm going to let you keep your hand."
Smartly, he hands his keys over and Carol doles out more sick burn before she departs: "What, no smile?" she says with a victorious smirk

Yes, it's smart to give in to a bully and a criminal who is stealing your stuff. Author Brian Truitt also describes the exchange as Danvers “punch[ing] toxic masculinity right in the mouth.”

“Watch Brie Larson totally own a dude in this exclusive ‘Captain Marvel’ video,” read the headline. The video is titled, “Exclusive, Brie Larson smiles for no man in ‘Captain Marvel’ scene.” Apparently, the answer to fairly mild toxic masculinity is extremely violent, chaotic, and criminally toxic femininity. As journalist Tim Pool wrote on Twitter, Danvers’ actions make her the “villain.”

 

[Blaze]

Lol men really hate her don't they?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Reminiscent of the movie Buffy stealing a motorcycle from a biker. Maybe they should have had Kristy Swanson play Captain Marvel.

 

[thrasherpix]

Technically speaking, I don't think she had "hero" status yet. She was a warrior conditioned to not question orders and get the job done no matter what because lives are at stake. I'd say she was still a lot more merciful than Black Widow would've been back in her "don't question orders" days (though she wouldn't have wasted any time taunting such a guy, she'd just take him down--if she didn't kill him then it would be pragmatically to keep from alerting authorities with a homicide and not messing up the clothes as well as the man not being worth a bullet--take his stuff, and never think of him again from that moment on).

Though from a writer's perspective, it shows a petty, vindictive mind that ironically reminds me of toxic masculinity (*) in more ways than one.

(*Because the phrase has been wildly misused online and even in academic settings I feel compelled to add that toxic masculinity is about certain cultural aspects that adversely affect men as well as women as opposed to the meaning some have twisted it into saying that most to all men oppress women, and treating it like an inherent biological trait of men rather than a fading cultural one. It includes holding in emotions as she does in those scenes seeing emotions--anger sometimes excepted--as unacceptable weakness, establishing dominance, and expressing contempt for those who are physically weaker.)

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Lol men really hate her don't they?

It was a woman that wrote the article.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Movie criticism with Ben Shapiro and Friends is always fun.

 

[white avenger]

The scene is almost certainly an attempted rip off of a similar scene at the beginning of "Terminator 2," but, unlike Arnie, she isn't naked and is supposedly a moral human being, not an unemotional killing machine. Obviously it wouldn't work in this case, so they change it.

It's unfortunate that Kevin Feige has placed so much hope in Brie Larson as the lead character of the future Marvel universe, because it's obviously something that she is totally incapable of doing, by the very premise of her supposed mission. Her self proclaimed responsibility is "the rest of the galaxy' because Earth already has an abundance of superheroes. Either she is suddenly going to abandon that mission, or the major focus of the future MCU is going to be off planet, which would seem to make little sense, considering the recent acquisition of of the Fox studio Marvel characters. But more importantly than that, the MCU has, up until now, given the appearance of being one big happy family, with everyone friendly and supportive of their costars, ant that, for me, has always been important to the quality of the franchise. Quite obviously, from the reaction that we've seen from some of those regulars still under contract and still scheduled to appear in future movies, she is not going to be a willing member of that family, and that presents a real danger of ruining the quality of the franchise.

Or, as my sainted daddy would have put it, that little girl is gonna be the fly in the buttermilk. If you don't get it out, it's gonna ruin the cornbread.

 

[thetopher]

It's just an example of abuse of power becoming 'okay' or even funny by simply flipping the genders. In reality Danvers is superpowered and she's bullying somebody who has none for very little reason.

I'm actually surprised by some being so dismissive and snarky, probably because they can't argue that said abuse of power is in any way called for so they just think ' eh an angry man-boy, whatever'.

Ironically the scene could've been pretty good (or at least necessary to the narrative) if Captain Marvel had any sort of arc to speak of in the movie; at the start she's meant to be a amnesiac soldier who's not in touch with her humanity; being a bully might come naturally to a person like that.
So imagine if Fury had slowly taught her over the course of the movie that might doesn't automatically make right and that its not nice to deliberately hurt those weaker than you (because the Kree have stripped her of some of her humanity to make her 'a better warrior').

Might've made her more sympathetic, or at the very least interesting, to gain more compassion and that in turn makes her a better warrior because she now goes to fight for those weaker than herself rather than being part of some all-conquering empire. Hmn.
Y'know like Thor and Iron man who act like arrogant douches by change significantly by the end of their film because they've had a change of heart.

It reminds me of the awful Man Of Steel scene where 'Last Son Clark' responds to a guy's drunken jerk/pouring beer on him not by responding in kind (understandable perhaps in context) or by being the better person and turning the other cheek.
No instead he quietly goes out and pettily ripping apart the guy's truck and therefore ruining his livelihood; so...almost the most excessive thing he could've done under the circumstance is somehow considered acceptable behavior.

The only bring this example up to illustrate that this isn't a 'empowered woman= bad' issue (that's moronic) but that it's a bad writing issue.

 

[GraceK]

🤦🏻‍♀️

Nice scuba suit,” the man says jokingly. Danvers glares at him and goes back to her map.

The man then asks, “Do you need a ride, Darlin’?” and pushes down the top of her map. “How about a smile for me?” he asks, in the creepiest way possible. She responds, “a smile?” And he says, “Yeah, you want me to help you? The least you could do is give me a smile.”

So, this guy invades her personal space, ignores the fact that she ignores his first attempt to talk to her, then gets physical with her by touching her map and predatorily encroaching on her. When she asks “ a smile?” He actually says if she wants help she’s obligated to smile at him, ignoring the fact that she didn’t actually Ask for his help and he is the one invading her space and forcing his “ help “ on her.

What if she wasn’t Carol Danvers? What if she is the everyday woman that deals with this crap? This is very intimidating, threatening behavior. It’s really Easy for men to brush it off and say “ he’s just being creepy” , but I’d LOVE to see how they would react if a man twice their size approached them in this way in prison or anywhere else .

This issue of female villainy really seems to come out whenever a woman of supreme power actually
Dominates her male oppressor. Just because she happens to be stronger than he is doesn’t make his behavior any less wrong. He tried to prey on someone and he got OWNED. It doesn’t make her a bad guy.

This forum has gotten so toxic it’s easy to forget it’s actually about a super powered feminist who fights vampires. As another poster pointed out, I believe it was Buffy herself who also stole a mans motorcycle after he whistled at her, and our Buffy body slammed Larry for a rude comment and touching her butt. Some of the posts here lately read like a MRA thread from reddit.

 

[Taake]

As much as I loathe Brie Larson, this seems like a silly overinterpretation.

I watched Tim Pool’s video on it and he straight up says that people who find this scene appealing have ”villanous tendencies”... I mean, that’s the human condition? We like seeing wrong doers punished, even if we disagree on who is doing wrong. I gleefully watched John Wick kill anyone even tangentally involved in the killing of his puppy, I don’t think I have the moral high ground to judge Cap Marvel dominate some dude 🤣

If anything, watching the extended scene made me feel like it was hammy writing, but not villanous.

It is just wish fullfillment, fantasy, if it isn’t your fantasy then maybe it isn't the film for you 🤷‍♀️

I find the underlying attitude of the scene a bit hypocritical, but then, this film wasn’t for me so that makes sense

This forum has gotten so toxic it’s easy to forget it’s actually about a super powered feminist who fights vampires. Some of the posts here lately read like a MRA thread from reddit.

Such as? Some of your own posts have been pretty toxic as well, as you know, so maybe back up your statements and also acknowledge your own part in stirring up a rather unpleasant vibe at times. People are allowed to disagree with your opinion without it being ”toxic”, and suggesting they are just fuels the flames I’d say

The difference of opinions on here shows the wide appeal of Buffy, that it could tell a story with a message but without activism. It had some depth which lead to debate, rather than presenting a certain ideological ”truth”, in my opinion.

 

[thetopher]

So a really creep deserves to get his hand crushed? He didn't even touch her. The Buffy comparison is ludicrous because if a guy grabs your ass, then that's sexual assault and deserves a smack-down. Surely there is some nuance to be had here without resorting to name-calling. 🙄

However this scene in Captain Marvel seems very familiar. I'm almost positive the villainous kryptonian Ilsa (?) does something similar to a guy in Superman 2 (but he may've at leasat deserved it). Look how far we're come lol.

We like seeing wrong doers punished, even if we disagree on who is doing wrong. I gleefully watched John Wick kill anyone even tangentially involved in the killing of his puppy, I don’t think I have the moral high ground to judge Cap Marvel dominate some dude

I think this might a bit of a false equivalency John Wick is not the superhero archetype but the reformed bad guy/assassin archetype; he's trangressive by his very nature. We want to see the reformed assassin use his evil skills in the service of...well, I won't say 'in the service of good', but killing other, worse bad guys is fair enough.

I'm not sure action movies don't really have to have every act be a moral one. Look at The Matrix; in that the good guys kill more innocent people than they do baddies. All of the poor lobby security guards were technically innocent, but is sure is cool how Neo does a one-armed cartwheel and shoots some guy in the head.
Or not, depending on you taste. It is however, stylish without any need to be 'righteous'.

Superheroes are usually held to some sort of higher standard because, as a superhero trope, they are rarely held accountable to an outside force for their actions. Nobody has the power to tell Supes or Iron Man or Captain Marvel what to do so when they start acting really, really pettily, its...disheartening? And also worrying.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

From TMS

However, the newly released scene “What, No Smile?” delivers exactly what we want from Captain Marvel, namely Carol kicking ass and taking down the patriarchy. The scene is extended to reveal what happens between the biker asking her to smile and Carol making off with his bike.

We meet the biker, who calls himself “The Don”, repeatedly ask Carol smile and offer her a ride on his bike. She offers him a superpowered handshake, which quickly brings the creep to his knees. “Here’s a proposition for you: you’re going to give me your jacket, your helmet, and your motorcycle, and in return I’m going to let you keep your hand.” After The Don acquiesces, Carol asks “what, no smile?” as he runs off.

Given that the scene is barely a minute long yet so satisfying, it’s surprising that it ended up on the cutting room floor. Frankly, I would watch two hours of Carol just slapping around gross dudes, but maybe I’m biased. Part of the appeal of a female superhero is seeing her answer everyday acts of sexism and harassment with superpowered aplomb. It’s wish fulfillment that every woman can get behind.

 

[Mr Trick]

I'm bored of people reading too much into such scenes. I'm also bored of people who cannot accept females taking on roles normally taken by men and excelling in them.

 

[Bluebird]

I'm finding it hard to see why this is a thing?

I get that a lot of people don't like Captain Marvel or Brie Larson, and the anti feminist bandwagon is almost tipping over here with the amount of people on it. I'm just bored now when I see yet another thread about how crap Captain Marvel is. Must we hammer the point until everyone subscribes to the same thoughts and opinions? Echo chambers are loud and annoying.

 

[Taake]

Must we hammer the point until everyone subscribes to the same thoughts and opinions? Echo chambers are loud and annoying.

Kind of feel like both sides are making this exact point, which is slightly humorous.

If you are bored with threads like this though, why engage with them? It seems to annoy you as much as the people you criticize, just from the opposite end of it, which is again, slightly humorous.

I think this might a bit of a false equivalency John Wick is not the superhero archetype but the reformed bad guy/assassin archetype; he's trangressive by his very nature. We want to see the reformed assassin use his evil skills in the service of...well, I won't say 'in the service of good', but killing other, worse bad guys is fair enough.

I'm not sure action movies don't really have to have every act be a moral one. Look at The Matrix; in that the good guys kill more innocent people than they do baddies. All of the poor lobby security guards were technically innocent, but is sure is cool how Neo does a one-armed cartwheel and shoots some guy in the head.
Or not, depending on you taste. It is however, stylish without any need to be 'righteous'.

Superheroes are usually held to some sort of higher standard because, as a superhero trope, they are rarely held accountable to an outside force for their actions. Nobody has the power to tell Supes or Iron Man or Captain Marvel what to do so when they start acting really, really pettily, its...disheartening? And also worrying.

I guess I see your point, in a way, but I’ll stand by my comparison. I can see why this is a satisfying scene to many, because most women wouldn’t be able to do much at all in a situation like that (except having the power to walk away) so we need the superhero woman (Buffy, Marvel) to do the things we cannot even in such a ”mild” every-day situation as this. I agree that it shouldn’t be played up as a righteous act, but I wouldn’t say it was worrying either.

And I’m not saying average Joe could do a John Wick, I just think this Carol scene is underwhelming in terms of the reaction to it.

 

[thetopher]

I can see why this is a satisfying scene to many, because most women wouldn’t be able to do much at all in a situation like that (except having the power to walk away) so we need the superhero woman (Buffy, Marvel) to do the things we cannot even in such a ”mild” every-day situation as this.

I see that. To bring Buffy in as an example there are two instances of toxic male behavior that she doesn't respond to;
firstly in 'Anne' she gets her ass slapped whilst working as a waitress and chooses not to respond, even though she has the power to. In this situation I would've loved to see her turn around, walk back, eye-ball the guy as ask him icily if he'd like to try that again, and deck him if he even attempted it. I think unsolicited body contact of that type deserves a response.
Secondly in Helpless she gets cat-called by a couple of drunk idiots and doesn't respond (because she hasn't got the power to and she's clearly nervous being out at night) but even if she were able to it would be crappy for her to, I dunno, go up and physically injure the guy for talking to her.
He's a jerk, for sure, but there are plenty of jerks out there who don't get punched in the face, cause that's illegal.

I agree that it shouldn’t be played up as a righteous act, but I wouldn’t say it was worrying either.

To me there's no difference criticizing Captain Marvel's superpowered behavior and the kind of analysis Superman and Batman got in their latest movie effort. One was labeled a a proto-fascistic hypocrite and the other was basically a murderous psychopath who branded people.
In contrast all this Carol Danvers stuff is incredibly mild, and yet its being called 'misogynistic' by some.

 

[Bluebird]

Kind of feel like both sides are making this exact point, which is slightly humorous.

If you are bored with threads like this though, why engage with them? It seems to annoy you as much as the people you criticize, just from the opposite end of it, which is again, slightly humorous.

Well I'm glad it's amusing at least!

Could you please delete my post? I know I should not post in these threads, I don't usually have anything to add to the topic other than coming across as annoyed.

 

[white avenger]

What if she wasn’t Carol Danvers? What if she is the everyday woman that deals with this crap?

This issue of female villainy really seems to come out whenever a woman of supreme power actually
Dominates her male oppressor.

the newly released scene “What, No Smile?” delivers exactly what we want from Captain Marvel, namely Carol kicking ass and taking down the patriarchy

The issue here for me is exactly what we teach in our martial arts classes. A simple comment, no matter how uninvited or even derogatory, even the invasion of what someone might consider their "personal space," is not a justifiable reason to resort to physical confrontation and violence. Reverse the situation. If a woman approached a man in a similar manner, would he be justified, as both bigger and stronger, therefore in no way actually in any sort of danger, be justified in acting like this? Very few people would answer in the affirmative.

Physical violence is never an excusable answer to a simple verbal threat, and by "simple," I mean that the person speaking is not brandishing some sort of weapon or otherwise presenting some sort of actual physical threat. Try using "He violated my personal space" in any court of law, especially when you are far superior physically to youe proposed "attacker," and you stand the very likely chance of spending some time locked away somewhere.

As I said earlier, this scene is a very close parallel to the scene in "Terminator 2." where a naked Schwarzenegger demands a biker's clothes, boots, and motorcycle keys. Whether intentional or mere coincidence, I'm personally glad that the editors chose not to use it in the final product. Even stealing the biker's motorcycle is a felony, but might be excusable as an expediency in Danvers' attempt to fulfill her mission.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Physical violence is never an excusable answer to a simple verbal threat, and by "simple," I mean that the person speaking is not brandishing some sort of weapon or otherwise presenting some sort of actual physical threat.

It seems microaggressions must be answered with and by actual aggression. But that statement is not unique to this movie. Many of the current TV shows depict the same behavior from their hero regardless gender. I think it is more prevalent in superhero type shows, or where shows where the protagonist either was, or could be seen, as a physically weaker person. It has became, by many, acceptable and cheered. Especially if they have a good quip to go with their aggressive behavior.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

So a really creep deserves to get his hand crushed? He didn't even touch her. The Buffy comparison is ludicrous because if a guy grabs your ass, then that's sexual assault and deserves a smack-down.

I wouldn't say Buffy even gives Larry a "smack-down" for grabbing her ass. Buffy was always going to win, her self-defence partner never stood a chance, no matter who it was. Willow had to remind her that Buffy was supposed to be some "weak girly girl" rather than the slayer so Buffy was holding back in order to play the part. When Larry grabbed her backside, Buffy decided to stop pretending and flipped him over. There was no intended malice on her part, she didn't crush his fingers and tell him to keep his hands to himself.

I see that. To bring Buffy in as an example there are two instances of toxic male behavior that she doesn't respond to;
firstly in 'Anne' she gets her ass slapped whilst working as a waitress and chooses not to respond, even though she has the power to. In this situation I would've loved to see her turn around, walk back, eye-ball the guy as ask him icily if he'd like to try that again, and deck him if he even attempted it. I think unsolicited body contact of that type deserves a response.
Secondly in Helpless she gets cat-called by a couple of drunk idiots and doesn't respond (because she hasn't got the power to and she's clearly nervous being out at night) but even if she were able to it would be crappy for her to, I dunno, go up and physically injure the guy for talking to her.
He's a jerk, for sure, but there are plenty of jerks out there who don't get punched in the face, cause that's illegal.

I agree. I'd even say that Buffy actually reacts appropriately to the situations, she ignores them. It's jerky behaviour from the men for sure, but jerks actually exist in the real world and will continue to do so until the end of time because some people are just arseholes. Provoking confrontation is one of the worst things you can do as it can lead to escalation and that is when people end up getting seriously hurt. A woman has a right to defend herself against a physical attack whatever way she can, but Captain Marvel's respnse is an over-reaction to the situation, given that it wasn't a physical attack IMO. Guys shouldn't make jerky comments towards women, but you know what else? Women shouldn't stay with their abusive partners, but it happens. It's an unfortunate fact of life that isn't going to change because there will always be some arsehole that exists in the world.

Captain Marvel is being heralded as this "strong" woman standing up for herself, yet it seems that a "strong woman" is defined as someone who will kick a man's ass when she feels affronted by his behaviour. By that logic Buffy isn't a "strong" woman because she chose to ignore the behaviour rather than retaliate to it. That message is also kind of damaging to real women as it implies that unless they react aggressively to a certain behaviour then they're not "strong" because this is how a "strong woman" reacts to "sexist" comments from men. Also, bare in mind that it is Captain Marvel that initiates the physical contact with the offer of a handshake which the man accepts. She's the aggressor in this situation.