Catwoman Comes Out As Bisexual

[thetopher]

So I'm not a big DC fan but apparently Catwoman recently 'came out' as bisexual.

Some people were less than bothered, shrugged and went 'yeah, and?'

But it caused all sorts of outcries to be heard, everything from 'comics are trying to corrupt our children' to 'this is just pandering to comic-obsessive neckbeards'.
Because a woman can run across rooftops dressed like a giant cat with a leather fetish, but if she kisses a woman, that's just weird y'know. 🙄

Yeah, she kissed a woman and now is 'out' as bisexual. Quick, stick a label on her.

I wonder if reactions like this explains the whole 'Buffy is clearly not gay' thing that's been happening in her comic ever since S9.
The writers can't oh, I dunno, play around with it (like say show Angel's reaction if/when he finds out, or Faith's for that matter...) and do something interesting/fun, they just want to forget that it ever happened.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I just don't like when it's done for attention, instead of something that makes sense for the character. Or, anytime a woman is powerful then they must be a lesbian, because straight women are only meek and helpless. I'd rather they introduce a character who is bisexual because it is part of their background and identity, than say, "We need a bisexual! Quick, which character can we suddenly make bi?!"

It's not like the Batverse is lacking in non-straight females...

 

[EVIL UU]

Personally, I don't care that much. It's not like "Catwoman" the comic is about Catwoman's sex life, right? Right?

this is just pandering to comic-obsessive neckbeards

I just love this argument. I mean, as if there's anything wrong about it. If most of the people who buy those comics are obsessive neckbeards then yeah, duh, it makes sense to pander to them. Pandering generally sells things and it's everywhere. Everywhere. Fifty Shades of Garbage panders to lonely, emotionally immature legbeards. The Sopranos pander to depressed, obese middle-aged sacks of shit. Buffy panders to LGBT audience. See how it works?

comics are trying to corrupt our children

This one's good too because children don't read comics. Seriously. Too busy with their smartphones, tablets and minecraft.

I wonder if reactions like this explains the whole 'Buffy is clearly not gay' thing that's been happening in her comic ever since S9.

I just don't know what they're doing anymore. On one hand Buffy goes to bed with a woman, on the other hand Xander, Willow and now Spike keep on telling us that she's clearly not gay when at the same time the comics are delivering season 3 levels of lesbian subtext! Like, WTF writers? What are you doing?

 

[Blaze]

I can't talk about Catwoman, cause I got no clue about her character, or her comic. But I can talk about other characters. We need more bi-visibility in media, that's just a fact to me. What the media is saying at the moment is basically that bisexuality doesn't exist, or that it's just a phase. I also hate when they make a main character bi for a whole 5 seconds just to say "Oh hey, look how progressive we are" when in fact they just do it for ratings (like Buffy Summers said) before making the character straight again, which to me is just as bad, if not worst than having no queer character. Or when they actually have a bi character, there's a huge outrage from people saying there's no possibility that the character is anything but straight.🙄

Just look at Buffy, she's always been a little gay (and I don't consider her story queerbaiting since Buffy is known for having characters that are not straight, and they've given lots of hints concerning Buffy). But as soon as B sleep with a chick, which to me was a long time coming, there's a revolt from the fans screaming that she can't be gay (who talked about being gay anyway, she's clearly still interested in dudes, but I got some news for you, that doesn't make you straight).

Seems like more shows are trying out having a queer main character, and to be honest the response has mainly been pretty shitty. We have the two main ladies of the Legend of Korra (a kids show) coming out as bisexual/pansexual in the season finale, and everyone freaks out because how dare we show this to kids. We have the main of the 100 now coming out as possibly not straight, and everyone is screaming that it's so out of character for her to be into chicks (for those who watch the show, we've known that character for a whole like 30 days, just because she dated a guy doesn't make her straight). The opposite is just as true, in Orphan Black we have two bisexual characters, and half the fandom seem to be ignoring the fact that they are bi, and they just claim that they are lesbians. Bi eraser is a real problem.

Sorry, I definitely went on a bit of a tangent here, I'm not sure how relevant all of this is to Catwoman, since I got no idea what the story is.

 

[thetopher]

I just don't like when it's done for attention, instead of something that makes sense for the character.

Yeah, I understand this. On the one hand Catwoman is a pretty sexual character, part theif/part femme fatale kinda? But on the other hand she's only really shown interest in Batman I think. Ah, I could be wrong on that.

I just love this argument. I mean, as if there's anything wrong about it.

Yeah, on the one hand know your audience and cater to them, on the other- people forget that more women than ever are reading and enjoying comics these days. Birds of Prey is a good example, a strong comic and had some good writing (incidentally by a female writer) and has good sales.

I just don't know what they're doing anymore. On one hand Buffy goes to bed with a woman, on the other hand Xander, Willow and now Spike keep on telling us that she's clearly not gay when at the same time the comics are delivering season 3 levels of lesbian subtext! Like, WTF writers? What are you doing?

I know, it's like on the totem pole of people that Buffy has slept with Satsu in now below Parker or something, like it was all a massive mistake. Like: 'How can you think of sleeping with a girl when there's this hunky dead guy over here?' Logic fail.
I'm waiting for the crossover when the writers can have both Angel & Faith find out about Satsu so they can both catagorically state that Buffy isn't gay, not even a little bit bi actually, and then Satsu can come over and say it...🙄


@Blaze, everything about your post was spot on. I was really using the Catwoman thing to talk about the wider issue and you nailed it. 🙂

 

[Blaze]

I'm waiting for the crossover when the writers can have both Angel & Faith find out about Satsu so they can both catagorically state that Buffy isn't gay, not even a little bit bi actually, and then Satsu can come over and say it...🙄

Better scenario:

Angel: "OMG Buffy, but you're so straight"
Faith: "Wait B, you never told Angel about that one time when we..."
Buffy: "FAITH, stfu, I can't have people thinking I was gay for you way before I was gay for Satsu"

 

[The Bronze]

Better start with saying I know nothing of Catwoman so I'll be sliding past that...

As for Buffy, did I fall asleep and miss the bit where Buffy showed any interest in women on the show? I honestly don't remember her sleeping with a woman, kissing a woman, dating a woman or even mention in passing that she fancies women. I mean in all that screen time she mentions all sorts of guys that she likes and has various boyfriends but I can't even remember her talking to Willow about being with another woman out of curiosity.

The Satsu / Buffy pairing always struck me as an attempt to generate a buzz for the new media so I'm not surprised the writers are now distancing themselves from it. Inverse even during the arc Buffy repeatedly pointed out that she was straight. It was just something about Satsu and those particular set of circumstances.

 

[VisionBoy]

Yeah, she kissed a woman and now is 'out' as bisexual. Quick, stick a label on her.

I know right? I have so many gay friends who've kissed members of the opposite sex and straight friends who've had same sex kisses. Don't think it changed their lives all that much, gotta say. 🙄

Personally, I'm just waiting for the day when someone (whether fictional or otherwise) being non-heterosexual isn't a freakin' headline. But hey ho.

 

[The Bronze]

I get the Fuffy greatness. Sarah's hot, Eliza's hot... great Fuffy.

But in nearly 100 hours of screen time I just don't remember Buffy expressing an interest in women.

 

[white avenger]

Since this has drifted away from Catwoman, who I know basically nothing about beyond the movies and the short-lived TV series, "Birds Of Prey," I would like to point out that, in Buffy's case, it's not an uncommon thing for prison inmates who are otherwise heterosexual to enter into gay relationships during the period of their confinement, then return to their original sexual orientation upon release. When Buffy had her two night stand with Satsu, she was living in, basically that same sort of confinement. Though the issue was never addressed, quite possibly at least some of the other Slayers there in the castle were also doing what Buffy and Satsu were doing, and most likely on a longer term basis.

The way that Buffy has been written, she is not gay. That, I think, most of us can agree on. Whether or not she is, to some degree, assuming that there is some kind of scale for such things, bisexual is totally open to conjecture at this time.

 

[Blaze]

I get the Fuffy greatness. Sarah's hot, Eliza's hot... great Fuffy.

But in nearly 100 hours of screen time I just don't remember Buffy expressing an interest in women.

To me it has absolutely nothing to do with how the actress are hot, it's all about the crazy chemistry they had. Sadly, we never actually got "the kiss" on screen, but you got censors to blame for that. But honestly, if something would have happened on screen between these two, I wouldn't have been surprised. The writers definitely played out the sexual undertone in my opinion.

Since this has drifted away from Catwoman, who I know basically nothing about beyond the movies and the short-lived TV series, "Birds Of Prey," I would like to point out that, in Buffy's case, it's not an uncommon thing for prison inmates who are otherwise heterosexual to enter into gay relationships during the period of their confinement, then return to their original sexual orientation upon release. When Buffy had her two night stand with Satsu, she was living in, basically that same sort of confinement. Though the issue was never addressed, quite possibly at least some of the other Slayers there in the castle were also doing what Buffy and Satsu were doing, and most likely on a longer term basis.

...but Buffy still had access to guys. It's not like there was no man where she was, plus didn't she decide she liked Xander not even a season later? I think the whole "gay for stay" is a pretty lousy excuse for why Buffy did the things she did. Using that excuse is like saying Buffy banged the first person she could find because she was really horny. But then again, I just don't really believe in the whole gay for stay thing.

The way that Buffy has been written, she is not gay. That, I think, most of us can agree on. Whether or not she is, to some degree, assuming that there is some kind of scale for such things, bisexual is totally open to conjecture at this time.

That's the problem. No one is trying to debate that Buffy is gay. I don't think it was ever even brought up, Buffy is clearly not gay, and no one wants her to be gay. But what is so wrong about saying that she's something other than straight (that doesn't even need to be bisexual, there's definitely a scale for such thing). I guess it grinds my gear a bit when people say that Buffy can't be anything other than straight because it's Buffy, and she's so obviously straight (is that even an argument?). I know you weren't saying tat, my post isn't focused at you but just in general at people from the fandom who see it as black and white, gay or straight.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

That's the problem. No one is trying to debate that Buffy is gay. I don't think it was ever even brought up, Buffy is clearly not gay, and no one wants her to be gay. But what is so wrong about saying that she's something other than straight (that doesn't even need to be bisexual, there's definitely a scale for such thing). I guess it grinds my gear a bit when people say that Buffy can't be anything other than straight because it's Buffy, and she's so obviously straight (is that even an argument?). I know you weren't saying tat, my post isn't focused at you but just in general at people from the fandom who see it as black and white, gay or straight.

But see, this is exactly my problem with Willow and how they handled her. It grates me. In the jacket episode, whatever its called. Where Willow is pining about RJ and Buffy exclaims "Willow you are a gay woman!"

Why? Because she had a fling with Tara? The point you make is the exact reason why I think they (the writers) messed up the Willow character. They 'turned her gay' versus having her be a full, complicated character. She became the shows token 'gay woman'

 

[Blaze]

But see, this is exactly my problem with Willow and how they handled her. It grates me. In the jacket episode, whatever its called. Where Willow is pining about RJ and Buffy exclaims "Willow you are a gay woman!"

Why? Because she had a fling with Tara? The point you make is the exact reason why I think they (the writers) messed up the Willow character.

To me, it comes down to Willow identifying as gay. I know a lot of people are mad they they chose the gay label instead of the bisexual label for Willow, but I guess I don't mind much because I know lots of lesbians who dated guys in highschool (guys that they genuinely liked or loved) before figuring out that they were gay later on.

To my knowledge, I don't think Buffy ever states that she's straight (she might in later comics, I dunno I stopped reading. so if that's the case, please someone correct me).

Also, what Willow had with Tara was definitely not a fling. Tara was basically the love of her life...

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I know a lot of people are mad they they chose the gay label instead of the bisexual label for Willow,

I'm not mad because they didnt label her bisexual, I'm mad because they LABELED her.

Also, what Willow had with Tara was definitely not a fling. Tara was basically the love of her life...

I will refrain from commenting.. hahahah..

 

[Blaze]

I'm not mad because they didnt label her bisexual, I'm mad because they LABELED her.

I get this. Labeling sucks. But the problem at the moment is that the LGBT+ needs representation in the media, and to do so you'll need to label. The world isn't at this stage where labeling is unnecessary, they did the whole not labeling thing on a few show and usually that results in an outrage from people watching the show who just refuse to acknowledge that the character isn't straight. On the two shows that I mentioned (The Legend of Korra, and the 100), the characters aren't labeled and if you go on any discussion board you'll have at least half the people debating that the character is straight. Labeling is important on TV to put the message across in bold letters "look, that character is NOT straight". It sucks, cause I don't like labeling either, but if people started to acknowledge that characters can be something other than straight, we wouldn't have the need for those labels.

The problem now is that characters on TV are straight until proven queer. Or if the character sleeps with someone from the same sex, the character is gay until proven bisexual (this is not a problem with just straight vs gay). So every time a character enters a non straight relationship, it makes the headlines. When we stop having that mentality, than we'll be able to stop putting labels on things. But for that we need people to stop caring that characters are gay, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

So every time a character enters a non straight relationship, it makes the headlines. When we stop having that mentality, than we'll be able to stop putting labels on things. But for that we need people to stop caring that characters are gay

Respectfully, I see it the other way. When you label it it causes the headlines. You say stop caring that the characters are gay, but when you label them as gay then it will make the headlines. The headlines make more people care. Especially, and almost exclusively, when its a pre-existing character. LGBT+ needs representation in the media, and to do so you'll need to label, but, again, my opinion, every time you label someone as this or that it implies they are different.

For instance, because 'LGBT+ needs representation in the media, and to do so you'll need to label' DC comics made the point of labeling Catwoman bi-sexual. Which attracted all of the attention. I cannot help to believe if they just had her kiss another woman in the comic, it would hardly have been the sensationalistic headlines, thus it would have seemed more 'normal'

But, the only reason they labeled her as anything anyway was to GET the attention, so.. that was their point. They got what they wanted, publicity.

I just think that, and I fully admit I could be really a naive hippy, but just as people dont say 'the hetrosexual character Batman' that not labeling characters 'the bi-sexual Catwoman' or the 'homosexual Batwoman' it would do more good towards acceptance and understanding that these are 'normal' characters and not, ah, special attractions.

 

[Blaze]

Respectfully, I see it the other way. When you label it it causes the headlines. You say stop caring that the characters are gay, but when you label them as gay then it will make the headlines. The headlines make more people care. Especially, and almost exclusively, when its a pre-existing character. LGBT+ needs representation in the media, and to do so you'll need to label, but, again, my opinion, every time you label someone as this or that it implies they are different.

For instance, because 'LGBT+ needs representation in the media, and to do so you'll need to label' DC comics made the point of labeling Catwoman bi-sexual. Which attracted all of the attention. I cannot help to believe if they just had her kiss another woman in the comic, it would hardly have been the sensationalistic headlines, thus it would have seemed more 'normal'

But, the only reason they labeled her as anything anyway was to GET the attention, so.. that was their point. They got what they wanted, publicity.

I just think that, and I fully admit I could be really a naive hippy, but just as people dont say 'the hetrosexual character Batman' that not labeling characters 'the bi-sexual Catwoman' or the 'homosexual Batwoman' it would do more good towards acceptance and understanding that these are 'normal' characters and not, ah, special attractions.

In a perfect world, I so completely agree. So don't get me wrong, what you're saying is definitely how things should be. We live in world where more often than not, things like the bi Catwoman is a publicity stunt. But we also live in a hetero-normative world where there's no need to qualify a character as straight because it is the default. So people won't say the heterosexual Batman because 99.99% of people will just assume Batman is straight. In a world where homophobia doesn't exist, not labeling a character will absolutely encourage a view where every sexuality is normal. The problem that I see with reality is that when you don't label things people go back to their close minded mentality that everyone is straight. Seriously, you can have a chick be in a relationship with a girl, but if she goes back to boys after, everyone will still think she is straight. Let's see, we have Marissa in the OC, ask a 100 people and at least half will tell you she's straight. We have Adrianna on the OC (same deal). Cassie in Skins. Now a lot of that is also just queerbaiting (having a gay relationship to boost rating before making the character "straight" again). I guess I'd just like to see one show where people don't assume that the character is straight until proven otherwise (and a show that isn't set in prison, or named the L Word).

Also, I have to say that quite a few shows also do a good job at the not labeling thing like you said. Orphan Black is a prime example, I love how that show approach the issue, more so as if it was a non-issue. And even then some people turned it into bi-eraser in the social medias, claiming that the characters are gay when they never said so (actually, neither of the queer character on the show ever state their sexuality, it's great).

 

[thetopher]

As for Buffy, did I fall asleep and miss the bit where Buffy showed any interest in women on the show? I honestly don't remember her sleeping with a woman, kissing a woman, dating a woman or even mention in passing that she fancies women.

I get the Fuffy greatness. Sarah's hot, Eliza's hot... great Fuffy.

Buffy had chemistry with Faith, which matters a whole lot more than just 'these two would look hot together'. (Which basically is most other slash ships) And while Fuffy isn't 'canon' exactly, the writers admit that it was there, that it was an intentional subtext, and Eliza admitted the same. Especially when Faith goes evil there's a lot of tension between the two of them.

The way Buffy acts towards Faith is like no other female character on the show, most of 'Bad Girls' illustrates that. Hell Buffy has more chemistry with her than she later does with Riley.
I could go into a long essay on why Fuffy works on so many levels, the mythology of the slayer, how Buffy and Faith mirror each other, have a lot of the same issues, are two sides of the same coin, connected, blah blah but really, you either see it or you don't. 🙂

Since this has drifted away from Catwoman, who I know basically nothing about beyond the movies and the short-lived TV series, "Birds Of Prey," I would like to point out that, in Buffy's case, it's not an uncommon thing for prison inmates who are otherwise heterosexual to enter into gay relationships during the period of their confinement, then return to their original sexual orientation upon release. When Buffy had her two night stand with Satsu, she was living in, basically that same sort of confinement.

I don't buy this. One, Xander is right there, Buffy has 'confused' feelings for him and day dreams about him. Two, she sleeps with Satsu not just because Satsu is attracted too her, it's because Satsu is provably in love with her (the wake-up kiss). Three, Buffy could easily pick up a guy in a bar if she wanted- she isn't confined like a prisoner is.

Buffy in S8 is more like somebody in the military, and while homosexuality exists within the miliary the fact is that most soldiers wait until they're 'on leave' to go and have sex, rather than 'share a bunk' with some random guy. 😀

The problem now is that characters on TV are straight until proven queer. Or if the character sleeps with someone from the same sex, the character is gay until proven bisexual (this is not a problem with just straight vs gay). So every time a character enters a non straight relationship, it makes the headlines. When we stop having that mentality, than we'll be able to stop putting labels on things.

The only character I can think of who bucks this trend in Kalinda from 'The Good Wife', she happily sleeps with whomever she likes man or woman, and when asked if she is gay she gives non-comittal answers. She's firmly bisexual really.
She doesn't like to be labelled and just doesn what she does because it works for her. Oh, if only more shows were just like this. 🙂

Oh, and Stella Gibson from 'The Fall' is kinda bisexual, and of course there's Captain Jack Harkness from 'Torchwood' (omni-sexual really, although with a strong predeliction for men...).
It seems much more common on British shows these days to have characters with 'undifined' sexuality and...nobody seems to mind really, at least not that I've seen.

 

[Blaze]

The only character I can think of who bucks this trend in Kalinda from 'The Good Wife', she happily sleeps with whomever she likes man or woman, and when asked if she is gay she gives non-comittal answers. She's firmly bisexual really.
She doesn't like to be labelled and just doesn what she does because it works for her. Oh, if only more shows were just like this. 🙂

Oh, and Stella Gibson from 'The Fall' is kinda bisexual, and of course there's Captain Jack Harkness from 'Torchwood' (omni-sexual really, although with a strong predeliction for men...).
It seems much more common on British shows these days to have characters with 'undifined' sexuality and...nobody seems to mind really, at least not that I've seen

Ya, I think we're getting there. You're right though, British shows seem to be more open with this, actually same with Canadian shows (not sure about other countries, I mainly watch British, Canadian and American shows). Seems like the problem is with American TV, I don't think it's a problem with America directly, but more so a problem with the fact that if it's made in the States, it'll be more mainstream and it'll be seen by a wider audience. Wider audience equals to a bigger chance of close minded people watching. Also depends on the genre of shows, I haven't seen any of the show you mentioned, but I know in some shows like Skins you have plenty of characters sleeping with just about anyone lol and no one questions that.

 

[WillowTaraHolic]

I don't like it when people like to label Buffy, because honestly we don't really know exactly WHAT her sexuality is. Yes, she is obviously attracted to males, but I don't believe that she is one hundred percent straight. (That is, she's not gay or bisexual either. Nor is she really bi-curious.) I also don't like that they automatically call Willow a lesbian either, not that I am questioning the validity of her relationship with Tara. No, not at all! But just because you fall in love or sleep with a person that happens to be someone of your gender doesn't mean that you are automatically homosexual or bisexual. We just can't really come to a conclusion about their sexualities because the writers have messed it all up. (Everything's so twisted that you can't even totally believe what that character says about themselves)