Change one thing in S5

[Riderofapocalypse]

Joyce dieing. 'Tore me apart Lisa'
I'd let/make someone else die close to Buffy. I know it changes a large variety of things that contributed to the show, but don't care

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

It would've been interesting to see Tara turn evil...to see HER embrace dark magic. And then Willow would've had to stop her. That would've been BRILLIANT.
I think Amber Benson would've been amazing as a dark witch.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Oh that would have been so much better than what happened...

🙂

 

[white avenger]

Considering that the Season 5 finale might very well have also been the end of the series, I think that it would have been appropriate to have Angel show up at the last moment, if only for a final scene with him standing over her grave after returning from Lorne's home dimension and regretting that he hadn't been there to help when she obviously needed him the most.

 

[cryptwarmer]

Remove Spike's god awful line "I'm drowning in you Summers."

Probably my most hated line in the entire series.

 

[vellavu]

Remove Spike's god awful line "I'm drowning in you Summers."

Probably my most hated line in the entire series.

He was an awful poet before. What do you expect?😀

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

No Dawn!

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

I would've liked to have seen zombie Joyce.

 

[vellavu]

Anya should be killed in "The Gift".

It would be much less disgracing for both Anya and Xander in S6/S7.

 

[Mr Trick]

Anya should be killed in "The Gift".

It would be much less disgracing for both Anya and Xander in S6/S7.

Do you me instead of Buffy or as well?

I wouldn't have killed her, just changed the direction of the character post-that episode. The Xander relationship had run its course, and I would have liked to have seen her go back to her demon roots, or at least separate from the Scoobies.

 

[Dora]

The only real thing I would change is Spike being obsessed with Buffy prior to that he was funny and interesting after that he became a stalker, abuser and a complete creep, perhaps a good story line was that he got his chip out and went again with Dru better Spike and Dru than the trio , Dawn dying is a interesting idea as Buffy had already defeated Glory and Giles had killed Ben and Buffy suffering from not saving her.....MT character was treated badly in 6 so no problem with that,
Personal hate thing from season 5,Loved the Buffy Bot again Sarah's acting , one minute she's finds her mum dead next she is a Robot what I hated was the unnecessary implied oral sex scene when Xander came looking for Buffy did not understand why anyone thought that necessary, of course now I realize it was just a prelude for season six

 

[smashedpumpkin]

Errrrgh so much to change not enough words 😀

My brain is also tired today so heres a succinct grumbly version of why Season 5 is my least favourite season. I like to pretend it didn't happen and jump to season 6 while whistling happily.

Number one: Glory was ridiculous. I feel like a minority in really disliking the whole God villain scenario, but really?!? A god?!?! They were really scraping the barrel on that one.

Number two: The key storyline. It felt to me that if they had actually come up with the whole key storyline a few years earlier they could have started easing it in from the earlier seasons by hinting Dawn's presence gradually. But instead they came up with a whim and excitedly inserted it in not really paying attention to details that needed tidying up. It was like BAM here's a new character so we can take the following seasons elsewhere because we are kinda stuck on ideas, but please ignore the fact there are plot holes to drive a tank through because we've also given you a shiny God. It was just so sudden and completely out of context that the season just felt rushed and slapdash from then on.

Number three: Riley is still on screen. Full stop.

I also wasn't a fan of the buffybot fiasco, but I'm willing to overlook it as it was amusing at times and I was too busy venting my anger at pretty much 95% of season 5 😉😱

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

I have some minor, a middle big, and one major complaint which I'd change:

Major: continuity of the fake memories of Dawn after the season.
Problem: Butterfly Effect. Relationships to Buffy and Scoobies are dishonest. Hard to take her seriously as a character since, well, everything is fake. Retcons because of her make me angry.
Solution: The ritual in "The Gift" has an effect on the monk spell resulting in the restoration of the original memories additionally to the faked ones. They have both memory lines but know which is fake and which is real.
Advantage: Might've given her an interesting identity arc in S06 instead of stereotypical annoying teenage girl. "Get Out!"

Middle big: Spike falling in love with Buffy.
Problem: leads to a partly too sympathetic and selfless soulless demon which contradicts the whole soul/no soul lore, especially AtS canon.
Solution: He doesn't fall in love with Buffy. Lol.
Advantage: Writers are challenged now to give him an arc. He leaves Sunnydale after "Out of my Mind" for the majority of S05 (escaping the staking), maybe one or two crossovers to AtS, return at the end, alliance with Scoobies against Glory (mutual interest, similar to S02). S06 villain alongside the Trio and eventually Dark Willow. Let him not solely focus on Buffy (one dimensional as in boring), maybe connect him to Willow's magic arc too, and he needs something for his own. Eventual ensoulment is unavoidable, though. Maybe Dark Willow has her hands in that. If an ancient demon in Africa can do it, why not DW? The motive can be "just for fun and because I can do it", or punishment. DW is really mean.

Minor: I chose one concerning my favorite character.
Someone calls Tara out for her bullshit in her arguments with Willow. Preferably Willow herself but I take what I get.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Minor: I chose one concerning my favorite character.
Someone calls Tara out for her bullshit in her arguments with Willow. Preferably Willow herself but I take what I get.

Knew you'd say that 😉

And honestly, I'd prefer Spike not to be ensouled. The fact that he knew how to get a soul begs the question: did Angel know too? Do all vamps know how to get souls now? If it's that easy, why doesn't Angel just find a way to get rid of the curse? I think the soul made more sense when the magic necessary to do it was unknown. It's like with the Slayers, there's only one and another one gets called in when the current slayer dies - that makes sense. The minute Willow makes all the Potentials actual slayers, it makes you wonder if giving people super powers is doable? Can you make all the Scoobies like Buffy? What about mass ensoulment? Can't Willow pull that off? I read a fic about it once.
I think Buffy is funner and more interesting when they're limits to what magic can do. I find the early seasons of both shows more exciting because of this. The whole concept that Angel was the first vampire with a soul is rendered absurd once Spike nonchalantly goes and gets himself one.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

S06 villain alongside the Trio and eventually Dark Willow. Let him not solely focus on Buffy (one dimensional as in boring), maybe connect him to Willow's magic arc too, and he needs something for his own. Eventual ensoulment is unavoidable, though. Maybe Dark Willow has her hands in that. If an ancient demon in Africa can do it, why not DW? The motive can be "just for fun and because I can do it", or punishment. DW is really mean.

This is about the only thing I'd (somewhat) disagree with. As I've said before I'd have The Trio around just long enough to bring back Vamp Willow.
Plus no more ensouled vamps - thank you very much!

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

And honestly, I'd prefer Spike not to be ensouled.

I think it's unavoidable that Spike gets a soul eventually because there comes the time when you're running out of excuses to not just "stake the bastard already". The alternative is to kill him off or he becomes an occasionally popping up villain like Dru (which is still getting old after time). I was trying to think of something which could satisfy Spike fans. I know it's still a repetition to Angel. Hmm, he could become human... no, we had that already with Darla and it would ridicule Angel's arc. Don't know, Spike's a hard nut. 😀

The minute Willow makes all the Potentials actual slayers, it makes you wonder if giving people super powers is doable?

The answer is in your question. No, since she activated "Potential Slayers". They weren't ordinated people in the first place. And a unique ancient artefact was required for that. She could enhance a normal person temporary I guess; like she did with herself when she wanted to kill Andrew and Jonathan.

If it's that easy, why doesn't Angel just find a way to get rid of the curse? I think the soul made more sense when the magic necessary to do it was unknown.

Makes sense, though the removal of the happiness clause is overdue, imo. Hey... could be a nice sub-plot in our Willow goes over to A&F scenario. Willow finds a way to get rid of it and it contributes to the Wangel friendship. 🙂

What about mass ensoulment? Can't Willow pull that off? I read a fic about it once.

She would need millions of Orbs of Thesulas for that.

The activation spell worked with the Slayer lines as in connections. Vampires, as shown in the comics, have a connection to their sires. Willow maybe could pull something off when she works on the very first vampire (forgot his name, the Old One Dracula changed into because of the Vampyr Book in S10). I wouldn't like the development, though, since Angel (and Spike) would lose their uniqueness.

I read a fic about it once.

Where? Is it good?

I think Buffy is funner and more interesting when they're limits to what magic can do. I find the early seasons of both shows more exciting because of this. The whole concept that Angel was the first vampire with a soul is rendered absurd once Spike nonchalantly goes and gets himself one.

Agreed.
 

As I've said before I'd have The Trio around just long enough to bring back Vamp Willow.

Why should the Trio summon Vamp Willow? Since Spike is also the villain in S06, the Trio gets less screentime. Otherwise, it could get too cramped on the villain side.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

Why should the Trio summon Vamp Willow? Since Spike is also the villain in S06, the Trio gets less screentime. Otherwise, it could get too cramped on the villain side.

It wouldn't be on purpose. 😉 The Trio wouldn't be around after that. In my (final) season 6 idea I'd have Spike & Vamp Willow as the Big Bads.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

I think it's unavoidable that Spike gets a soul eventually because there comes the time when you're running out of excuses to not just "stake the bastard already". The alternative is to kill him off or he becomes an occasionally popping up villain like Dru (which is still getting old after time). I was trying to think of something which could satisfy Spike fans. I know it's still a repetition to Angel. Hmm, he could become human... no, we had that already with Darla and it would ridicule Angel's arc. Don't know, Spike's a hard nut. 😀

That's true, but Spike's character was more interesting in season 5, after the time he spent running around sniffling Buffy's underwear, when he was a Scoobie with questionable motives. There was a moral grey area there that was nice. Becoming all about Buffy in season 6 was a setback. While it's true that he was going against Ats lore in both seasons 5 and 6, I think he was more enjoyable like that. His character in season 7 is more on pair with what we know about vampires, but a boring version of Angel. On the long term though, I guess ensoulment would be unavoidable like you said. Or Angel could stake Spike? Maybe Willow could set him on fire? That sounds great 😛

The answer is in your question. No, since she activated "Potential Slayers". They weren't ordinated people in the first place. And a unique ancient artefact was required for that. She could enhance a normal person temporary I guess; like she did with herself when she wanted to kill Andrew and Jonathan.

She would need millions of Orbs of Thesulas for that.

The activation spell worked with the Slayer lines as in connections. Vampires, as shown in the comics, have a connection to their sires. Willow maybe could pull something off when she works on the very first vampire (forgot his name, the Old One Dracula changed into because of the Vampyr Book in S10). I wouldn't like the development, though, since Angel (and Spike) would lose their uniqueness.

Ok, both explanations make sense. Btw I wasn't saying that I want every damn vampire to be ensouled, just that Willow could easily curse a lot of vampires, especially the more dangerous ones (like Angelus).

Makes sense, though the removal of the happiness clause is overdue, imo. Hey... could be a nice sub-plot in our Willow goes over to A&F scenario. Willow finds a way to get rid of it and it contributes to the Wangel friendship. 🙂

Yup 🙂 And then Buffy crosses-over to A&F to test the new curse 😉 That could take up a lot of issues too...

Where? Is it good?

Don't remember... Maybe it was on Fanfiction.net actually, so I don't know if it was good.

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

It wouldn't be on purpose. 😉 The Trio wouldn't be around after that. In my (final) season 6 idea I'd have Spike & Vamp Willow as the Big Bads.

Ah okay. They accidentally bring back Vamp Willow and she kills them (I assume). What would she do afterwards?

 

[Mr Trick]

I think it's unavoidable that Spike gets a soul eventually because there comes the time when you're running out of excuses to not just "stake the bastard already". The alternative is to kill him off or he becomes an occasionally popping up villain like Dru (which is still getting old after time). I was trying to think of something which could satisfy Spike fans. I know it's still a repetition to Angel. Hmm, he could become human... no, we had that already with Darla and it would ridicule Angel's arc. Don't know, Spike's a hard nut. 😀



The answer is in your question. No, since she activated "Potential Slayers". They weren't ordinated people in the first place. And a unique ancient artefact was required for that. She could enhance a normal person temporary I guess; like she did with herself when she wanted to kill Andrew and Jonathan.



Makes sense, though the removal of the happiness clause is overdue, imo. Hey... could be a nice sub-plot in our Willow goes over to A&F scenario. Willow finds a way to get rid of it and it contributes to the Wangel friendship. 🙂



She would need millions of Orbs of Thesulas for that.

The activation spell worked with the Slayer lines as in connections. Vampires, as shown in the comics, have a connection to their sires. Willow maybe could pull something off when she works on the very first vampire (forgot his name, the Old One Dracula changed into because of the Vampyr Book in S10). I wouldn't like the development, though, since Angel (and Spike) would lose their uniqueness.



Where? Is it good?



Agreed.
 


Why should the Trio summon Vamp Willow? Since Spike is also the villain in S06, the Trio gets less screentime. Otherwise, it could get too cramped on the villain side.

You see Spike as a villain in S6? I know he has a frosty relationship with the scoobies but I think at that point he has done more than enough to earn his stripes on the good side.

@HowiMetdaSlayer Really like your idea of Dark Willow and Spike teaming up to take out the Trio and become the BB.