Charisma Opens Up About Whedon

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Faded90 said:
Honestly I wouldn’t like to make a judgement on that without knowing the details
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Because Buffy was a hit show and an amazing opportunity. When you're in the middle of a bad situation, you're busy trying to accommodate yourself to it and make the best of it. A lot of what happens only becomes easy to face (or even admit to yourself) after it's over, or when you've gone further along and things get much worse. She recommended MT to come in after season 4. At the time, it probably seemed like it would be a chance to have an ally and give a friend a chance. Later, she might have regretted it.

I defended my ex right up to the end. Right up to the day when it dawned on me that I was excusing actual abuse... during a conversation where I was arguing with someone and their response was "People don't treat people they love the way he's treating you." That was like lightning, yet others had said things too - I just wasn't ready. Until I was. It suddenly made more sense than all my excuses and my rationalizations. Excuses and rationalizations I'd made for nearly the entire relationship! I was out of seven years of relationship including 4.5 years of marriage less than a month later. Even severe abuse is not always bad. That is the dirty secret. There are times when it is REALLY lovely... they become shorter and less, but in the beginning, the aftermath times are almost amazing... you don't realize you're being wooed by evil. You really believe it's worth it... and eventually, you believe you deserve it, aren't worth better.

How an abusive situation often works:

1. Joss is really talented. It will be OK.
2. I must have brought this on myself.
3. I can handle it. It will make my career.
4. If I walk, he will ruin me.
5. I just have to survive the last few episodes...
6. I can't talk about it. I'm too ashamed, and it hurt too much... and he could still screw up my future.
7. I don't care anymore. I'm tired. I'm done with this business.

Then someone who grew up in the time of speaking out, who is actually male (no surprise) and maybe a bit more confident speaks out.

8. I'm ready to tell my story. I think I can heal now.
 
nightshade said:
I think a lot of people forget that maternity leave isn't really a thing in America, and a lot of women will work right up to the due date. I wonder if that attitude contributes to the way Hollywood, Joss etc deals with actresses that do get pregnant
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You are so right! The world is about the mission and the mission is what makes money. Human life and particularly womanhood and parenthood is LESS than. "Any woman who does not toe the line doesn't belong in Hollywood; she is unprofessional". It's a load of BS but we buy this nonsense because the dollar, not humanity is what matters.
 
I AM NOT DEFENDING JOSS, but I do want to say y'all should be careful about making assumptions about MT's comments. Someone used the word "pedopehliac"... Her comments definitely raised my eyebrows, but we don't know that anything like that took place. I think it's pretty safe to assume Joss is a dick, but otherwise, I'm not calling him or his behavior any other names.
 
DeepBlueJoy
DeepBlueJoy
agreed. It's clear he's a nasty person. Criminal activity is another thing and we need to be much more careful about that.
@Myheadsgonenumb not revealing crucial information about your ability to fulfil your contracted responsibilities is a bad thing to do. Whether it's your right or not.

It does look likely that Charisma was aware of this fact and did try to let people know early.
 
The Bronze said:
@Myheadsgonenumb not revealing crucial information about your ability to fulfil your contracted responsibilities is a bad thing to do. Whether it's your right or not.
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Only because we live in a world where we value contracts, obligation and money making above humanity and specifically above womanhood. That's the point.
 
Myheadsgonenumb said:
Only because we live in a world where we value contracts, obligation and money making above humanity and specifically above womanhood. That's the point.
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I agree, ideally a whole lot of things would be better all round for all of us.
 
The Bronze said:
I agree, ideally a whole lot of things would be better all round for all of us.
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Exactly - but things don't just get better, you have to fight for them. So people overriding a woman's right to privacy over pregnancy and claiming that "not revealing crucial information about your ability to fulfil contractual obligations is a bad thing to do" are stopping progress being made and removing women's privacy, dignity and agency by supporting the capitalist ideal that making money and what we do in the workplace is all important and everything else is secondary and lesser.

The problem is not women getting pregnant, the problem is the way the workplace treats pregnant women.
 
Myheadsgonenumb said:
the problem is the way the workplace treats pregnant women.
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I disagree with this. As a small business owner if my state had mandatory maternity leave laws it would severely (at best) cripple the business. Not only would we have to pay for a 12 week maternity leave would also have to pay for their replacement. The salary for the position would double. It would kill our bottom line and greatly affect the day-to-day operations and finding worthy candidates that are only willing to work 12 weeks is next to impossible.
 
gwenogjones
gwenogjones
America is a terrifying and anti-woman place. This statement chilled me to the core.
Myheadsgonenumb said:
stopping progress being made and removing women's privacy, dignity and agency by supporting the capitalist ideal that making money and what we do in the workplace is all important and everything else is secondary and lesser.
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I don't think so. It's simply acknowledging the reality of the current situation. Keeping quiet in a situation like this has a huge knock on effect for other people. Even if things improve that'd still likely be the case.
 
I noticed that the article only says about Fisher accusing Whedon of unprofessionalism etc and not racism which is what Fisher was accusing Whedon of. It's an interesting change in narrative when the supposed "racism" is what Fisher kept going on about. Also interesting that CC was included in the WB investigation (I'm guessing to see if Whedon had a history of bad behaviour on set), point is that Fisher still didn't get the result he wanted when he was going for the racism narrative, even with CC's involvement.

Btvs fan said:
Ray Fisher is a man and his character Cyborg has been dropped. Basically his career is now over for coming forward its one of the reasons CC lists why she came forward
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Fisher wasn't dropped for coming forward, he was dropped because he started going after the Asian DC movie president (who wasn't even in the role during the time of the alleged incidents) then when Fisher didn't get the result he wanted from the investigation, he declared that he wasn't going to be in any movie that involved said Asian DC movie president (who has just signed a contract for at least 3 more years). Fisher essentially resigned from the role since any future appearance of the character (such as the upcoming Flash movie)) would be in a production that would have the DC movie president's involvement.

The debate over the Ray Fisher stuff wasn't over whether or not Whedon was a dick on set, the debate was over whether or not Whedon was racist. It seems like there was no evidence to back up Fisher's claims of racism. However there is evidence to back up claims of Whedon's bad behaviour. Gal Gadot had issues with Whedon on set and she went to the higher ups and got it dealt with so the studios were aware that Whedon had unprofessional conduct.


Faded90 said:
Agreed I think the comments from Michelle that she was ‘subjected to a lot’ when she was a child while doing the show has took it to a whole new level
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She needs to clarify her comments because people are already jumping to conclusions, and despite how terrible Whedon's behaviour has been in regards to CC, he does not deserve to be labelled a paedophile (which is the conclusion people are jumping to due to MT's age during Buffy) if he is not one. She needs to say in what way his behaviour was "not appropriate". If his behaviour towards her was of a criminal nature, then she needs to be going to the police about it, not making vague statements on social media that are open to interpretation.
 
Btvs fan said:
@DeepBlueJoy Ray Fisher is a man and his character Cyborg has been dropped. Basically his career is now over for coming forward its one of the reasons CC lists why she came forward
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Ray Fisher starred in a huge blockbuster. CC hasn't had much of a career since Angel, and definitely hasn't worked with Whedon since.
 
The Bronze said:
I don't think so. It's simply acknowledging the reality of the current situation. Keeping quiet in a situation like this has a huge knock on effect for other people. Even if things improve that'd still likely be the case.
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It's not acknowledging the current situation if you put a value judgement on it (you said it was 'bad') it's supporting a current situation that holds women at a disadvantage. In order to maker progress we have to acknowledge reality, but then we also have to understand why the current status is wrong and why it needs to change.

Now obviously there are some circumstances where you will be unable to do your job and you need to let your employer know.

However, specifically when it comes to pregnancy - I cannot say this enough women get pregnant. Any employer who is worthy of the position of power and authority they hold will be aware of this, will allow for this and will have contingency plans in place for if it happens. No employer should ever be at a dead loss on being told a female employee is pregnant. They are the ones not fit for the job in that case.
Angel the Series was not going to stop running, no one was going to lose their jobs, because one of the actresses got pregnant.

It's a T.V show. It's only a T.V show. Rewrites, or sticking Charisma behind the front desk of the hotel for a season is not beyond them. And while anyone likes as much time as possible to get their head around a change, if that directly conflicts with someone else's right to medical privacy and bodily autonomy it's tough sh*t, I'm afraid.

SMG got married during the run of Buffy. If Joss never once stopped to consider what he would do in the event of her falling pregnant then he had no business being the show runner.

Finding out a 30+ newly married actress on an ever increasingly ensemble cast is pregnant should have barely slowed him down.

The world of work needs to accept that women get pregnant and all employers need to be ready for it to happen. This is not the reality we live in, but it's what we should have. Anything else is not good enough.
 
DeepBlueJoy
DeepBlueJoy
When Matthew Gray Gubler had surgery, the show had him get shot and wrote crutches into the series. Sanity adjusts to reality.
Priceless
Priceless
But they did this for CC, they used her pregnancy in the show. It was her treatment afterwards that's the problem
Spanky said:
As long as they feel comfortable to do so, and only as much as they feel comfortable in saying. No one on twitter or social media "deserves" to know any more than a person is willing to say.
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But Michelle really need to clarify her comments because with what she said a lot of people believed that she was sexually abused. If that’s not the case she really need to précise the nature of the abuse she accused Joss Whedon. It’s one thing to say that he had inappropriate behavior and it’s another thing to say that he is a pedophile which a lot of people are thinking from her comment
 
Antho said:
But Michelle really need to clarify her comments because with what she said a lot of people believed that she was sexually abused. If that’s not the case she really need to précise the nature of the abuse she accused Joss Whedon. It’s one thing to say that he had inappropriate behavior and it’s another thing to say that he is a pedophile which a lot of people are thinking from her comment
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If people are reading more into what was said than was actually said then that is on them. Michelle does not owe it to them or to Joss to clarify that they are over reading or to make explicit what she went through.
She did not say 'pedophile' - anyone saying that needs to dial it back unless/until someone actually comes forward with an accusation.

Demanding that people spill all the gory details because strangers on the internet are getting carried away with the little information they have been given is part of why people don't speak up in the first place. People's reactions to what Michelle said are not Michelle's responsibility. She has said what she is comfortable in saying, maybe in time she will decide to say more - maybe she won't. That's her business. But she owes nobody anything.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Exactly
Bop
Bop
I think she kind of does though. It's distrubing to think she was subjected to abuse at all when she was literally a child. It's natural to wonder how bad it was when all she said was she was abused by Joss.
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