Christmas Banned?

[Blondie Bear]

Due to this thread, this topic has been on my mind, and I just noticed that in the "holiday" Prilosec OTC commercial playing here in the U.S.--the one where they're passing around the fruitcake--not a single person says "Merry Christmas." It's all "Happy Holidays," despite the fact that they've all got big Christmas trees, are wearing red and green, the women's jewelry all little red bells and crap . . . CHRISTMAS stuff! Hypocritical much?

 

[Kean]

This reminds me of a customer I once served in my uncle's shop. I have this habit of speaking in Irish form time to time, so anyway this man walked in and I gave my usual greeting of 'Dia dhuit', the Irish for hello but when it's translated it literally means God be with you. The minute I said it he feaked out and said I shouldn't make such assumptions that he wanted God any where near him and that if I wanted to greet people I should say 'Fà¡ilte' which means welcome! It just struck me as an over-reaction of the highest degree! I get people not believing in God but that kind of reaction just isn't warranted.

 

[The Chosen]

I'm really sorry if this offends anyone but I'm mad right now:

Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas...

CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's just re---

That word's offensive so I'll say STUPID! (Not Christmas the "change.") I'll never stop saying "Christmas." Like OMIII said, he won't stop saying "secretary." Saying you can't say "Christmas" is like saying you can't say "mozzerella," it has to be "a goodness that comes from a cow." (Which it is but still.)

And like everyone has said, the Jewish people and those that celebrate Kwanzaa don't have to change their holiday name, but we do? I have nothing against Hannukah-ers or Kwanzaa-ites because that's what they celebrate.

And I bet that the people who find the name "Christ" offensive probably use it every day as a swear word. If you don't like the word, don't say it. It's like in the Pledge (America 😛), if you don't want to say "One nation under..." then don't say the name! Just close your mouth!

Like I said, I'm really sorry if I've offended anyone but I had to rant.

- TC

 

[Old Master 3.0]

I welcome all of you to the National "Shut The (expletive deleted) Up!!" Movement. Well done. Keep up the good fight! 😛 :: tu ::

Merry Christmas! 😀

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

For Godsake it's Christmas.

Stop whining about a minority of people making suggestions of what to do in places you don't live that will affect you in absolutely no way because they willl never change and enjoy the time of year

 

[Wicked]

Theres a school in England that wont allow Santa to dress in red. he has to dress in green cos of the Coke ads. They think its too commercialised :S

Its quite insane. But like Al said, doesnt affect me so who cares 😛

 

[SpikedBuffy]

Old Master III agrees: Welcome as a charter member of the National "Shut The (expletive deleted) Up" campaign. 😛

I wanna be in the club! I wanna be in the club!

Whatever. If the stupid people 'take Christmas away' so what? Didn't they ever read "How the Grinch Stole Christmas"? Christmas is not about the word. It's not about the freaking tree. Or the songs. As one of my second graders told me on Friday... "Christmas comes from the Heart. It's for the heart." (how insightful huh? Seven years old and she already gets it)

 

[GATEGOD]

I wanna be in the club! I wanna be in the club!

Whatever. If the stupid people 'take Christmas away' so what? Didn't they ever read "How the Grinch Stole Christmas"? Christmas is not about the word. It's not about the freaking tree. Or the songs. As one of my second graders told me on Friday... "Christmas comes from the Heart. It's for the heart." (how insightful huh? Seven years old and she already gets it)

lol this club seems pretty cool. How does one join? :cheering:

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

The Chosen disagrees: i see where you're coming from but we gotta protect our values and beliefs in all ways possible.

Do you realise how stupid this sounds?

Christmas is arguably the largest festival of the year across any religion.
You think some bureaucrats in an office somewhere can change that?
You aren't protecting anything, its already protected.
This is just the result of Think Tanks passing on information to Governments to try and keep and equilibrium in society or misguided do-gooders that tabloid press have found and immediately accuse them of taking Christmas away.

Take the one Wicked cited.
I read about that. What that story was actually about once you take away the sensationalized version is a school that wanted to promote the true meaning of Christmas by taking out the Red Suited Santa and opting for the St Nikolas in green original. Only problem is, Red Santa predates Coca Cola by about 60 years, so they have their facts wrong. Coca Cola didn't create red santa, they exploited it.
I see nothing wrong with a school trying to put forward a less commercialised Christmas message.

As for the other stuff, you'll probably find it's in none Christian areas of Christian countries. They aren't taking Christmas away, they are suggesting ways to have Muslim or Jewish or every other none Christian belief take part in festivities while not offending them.

Irony is, the people don't actually care. Most people are of the belief that Mr Pointy is of, "If I visit another country I don't get offended by its customs and traditions...I may not like them but I respect them".

Its only a minority of them that have an issue and it's those that get heard because well which of these headlines will sell a newspaper in a Christian Country...

"Local Muslim Communities don't mind Christmas"
"Local Muslims angered by Christmas Celebrations"

You better believe it is the second.

All you guys are just perpetuating the hysteria and making it far more than it is.

I'll reiterate what I said before

"For Godsake it's Christmas.

Stop whining about a minority of people making suggestions of what to do in places you don't live that will affect you in absolutely no way because they willl never change and enjoy the time of year "

 

[The Chosen]

I'm pretty sure I understood what you said, but think about it this way: Some idiots in Asia are trying to ban Buffy. Do you a) Protect it because you love it even if it isn't that close to home or b) Go on with life understanding that Buffy is gone in a continent of the world.

I'm not trying to have a fight with you or anything, just voicing my opinions is all.
- TC

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I'm pretty sure I understood what you said, but think about it this way: Some idiots in Asia are trying to ban Buffy. Do you a) Protect it because you love it even if it isn't that close to home or b) Go on with life understanding that Buffy is gone in a continent of the world.

I'm not trying to have a fight with you or anything, just voicing my opinions is all.
- TC

I can't even begin to show you how stupid your argument here is.

I defy anyone to read this and not laugh.

What you seem to have misunderstood is that this isn't happening, however in your post you have shown that you are more then happy to thrust your beliefs on others when they don't want it which is just as wrong.

I'll use your absurd comparison.

If I went to Asia and the mass population didn't want Buffy, then its up to that country to do something about it. They can ban it, because I come from a country that does like it, its not an issue.

Now take that into the context of Christmas and lets ignore the fact you blatantly want to force a Chrsitian festival on non Christian countries and look at it as though it was a Christian Country.

The moment it becomes an issue that we are being forced by Governments to change our beliefs then I will have an issue, however like I have stated, this isn't what is happening, what is happening is Tabloid Press want sensational headlines to sell news papers and they've found that these issues sell so they trawl through countless stories till they find it then plaster it on page one, causing people like you to whine and whinge that 'they're trying to take Christmas away' but then because of the last line of the article that generally reads 'We here at {insert the tabloid of choice} will always call it Christmas' or something similar, means you've just been suckered into believing that this paper believes what you believe.
This in turn means you're going to buy the paper again or maybe even a subscription.

I find it laughable that this is one of the oldest marketing tricks in the book and people are falling for it, but more power to you all.

 

[The Chosen]

It surprises me that you would go as far as saying that my argument was "stupid."

I'm going to use your "Christian festival" point. Just because the whole country believes something doesn't mean it's individual citizens still don't want to celebrate it. Just because America's official language is English doesn't mean everyone HAS to speak it. Although you are right, in some countries things aren't optional.

And please don't say that my points "are stupid." I'd appreciate it if you said that you disagree. I'm actually over the subject considering we both have extremely different opinions and I do not wanna start a flame war. Obviously a solution between us will not be reached.

- TC

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

It surprises me that you would go as far as saying that my argument was "stupid."

I'm going to use your "Christian festival" point. Just because the whole country believes something doesn't mean it's individual citizens still don't want to celebrate it. Just because America's official language is English doesn't mean everyone HAS to speak it. Although you are right, in some countries things aren't optional.

And please don't say that my points "are stupid." I'd appreciate it if you said that you disagree. I'm actually over the subject considering we both have extremely different opinions and I do not wanna start a flame war. Obviously a solution between us will not be reached.

- TC

No No, stupid was the correct term.

Your analogy was pretty obvious. You basically stated that you think we, as Christians, should go to non-Christian countries and force our beliefs on them being a minority in that country while on a thread that is complaining that a minority in Christian countries are trying to change our beliefs.

What's interesting is that you actually agree with this when it's your religion but not when it comes to others.

This is borderline xenophobia, good luck to you and Merry Christmas.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

I'm 22, and while I don't recall the first few of those years, I do know with some certainty that there has probably been an "OMG, They're killing CHRISTMAS!!!" story every year. It's a seasonal page filler and that's all.

Regarding the name... If there was an alternative name that didn't sound stupid, and that everybody would recognise, I would much prefer it. I love Christmas, but I'd like to hang out with my family and have everybody doing that whole fabulous Christmas glow thing without the bad bits.

The "Fà¡ilte" vs. "Dia Dhuit" guy was overreacting, but bear in mind, to many people, myself included, religion isn't just something that's distasteful or unattractive, it's actively destructive. Richard Dawkins - the "Cultural Christian" guy makes a very good argument that athiests should always make a point of pulling somebody up over that so as to make it clear that religion shouldn't be a norm that's assumed. The guy was still being a total knob though.

 

[nerd4hire]

BotD, are you saying attacks on Christmas don't happen?

Because if that's what you're saying you're just plain wrong. They do happen. It isn't just a hobgoblin invented by the media to sell stories. It's often an organized attack from organizations such as the ACLU, or different secular societies. Sometimes it's just some fool who's found himself in a position of power where he can enforce his own warped opinion of how people should behave on others. Here's a few examples including one list with a ton of examples.

The Harvard Crimson :: News :: Boston's 'Holiday Tree' Sparks Controversy


The Seattle Times: Local News: Airport puts away holiday trees rather than risk being "exclusive"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47749

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/walmart.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/target.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/bestbuy.asp

http://www.lc.org/attachments/Christmas_list.pdf

Here's Ben Stein with his opinion on it.

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart:

I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important? I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is, either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are. Is this what it means to be no longer young. It's not so bad.

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp

And on having an opinion concerning something that might be happening in another country, I agree with The Chosen. It's valid. I've done it, you've done it. Everybody I've ever talked to has done it, including people from other countries that had an opinion (often negative) concerning something that's happened in my own country. Such opinions are often relevant to something happening in their own country. In fact that's what's happening in this case. She wasn't saying let's go to war with the other country over it. She was saying it's OK to have and express the opinion. In fact if you want to disuss what's stupid, what I find really dumb is not being able to figure out what she was obviously trying to say.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

No I said they are a minority of events that happen BUT the media trawl through so many other stories and use them to blow them WAY out of proportion.

Those stories in the scheme of things are tiny and will have absolutely no affect on governmental takes on Christmas and definitely won't have us chaning the nature of the Christmas period.

All though I love that you have cited journalists and media sources as points of reference.

 

[nerd4hire]

Actually most of those links are from Snopes.com which is a site that examines urban legends. The one with the long list of attacks on Christmas is from an organization that fights such attacks. It's religious of course, but that doesn't make the stories less true. They've taken on the ACLU over such issues. What? You don't think that's news? You don't think people want to know about that kind of stuff? I disagree.

But you're saying there's something wrong with reporting on all this in the news right? OK, let's take one example of a specific news story mentioned above. The city of Halifax Nova Scotia sends a 30 foot Christmas tree to Boston every year. They've done it every year for over 30 years. It's in thanks for help from the city of Boston when Halifax had to deal with a massive downtown explosion in 1917. They send Boston a Christmas tree. It's placed in Boston Common, and there's a big ceremony when it's lit up.

One year some secular zealot in Boston decided it could no longer be called a Christmas tree. It had to be called a Holiday tree. People got pissed. They started phoning talk shows, writing letters to the editor, and the Mayor about it. That was in Boston. The citizens of Halifax didn't like it either. They felt insulted, and weren't shy about expressing it. Are you saying that's not news. Are you saying the media shouldn't report on that? Why not?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Actually most of those links are from Snopes.com which is a site that examines urban legends. The one with the long list of attacks on Christmas is from an organization that fights such attacks. It's religious of course, but that doesn't make the stories less true. They've taken on the ACLU over such issues. What? You don't think that's news? You don't think people want to know about that kind of stuff? I disagree.

But you're saying there's something wrong with reporting on all this in the news right? OK, let's take one example of a specific news story mentioned above. The city of Halifax Nova Scotia sends a 30 foot Christmas tree to Boston every year. They've done it every year for over 30 years. It's in thanks for help from the city of Boston when Halifax had to deal with a massive downtown explosion in 1917. They send Boston a Christmas tree. It's placed in Boston Common, and there's a big ceremony when it's lit up.

One year some secular zealot in Boston decided it could no longer be called a Christmas tree. It had to be called a Holiday tree. People got pissed. They started phoning talk shows, writing letters to the editor, and the Mayor about it. That was in Boston. The citizens of Halifax didn't like it either. They felt insulted, and weren't shy about expressing it. Are you saying that's not news. Are you saying the media shouldn't report on that? Why not?

You are very good at putting words in peoples mouths mate, but you really should try and stop.

I'll condense down what I said then maybe, if I feel you require it, i'll give you a summary as well.

You think some bureaucrats in an office somewhere can change that?
You aren't protecting anything, its already protected.
This is just the result of Think Tanks passing on information to Governments to try and keep and equilibrium in society or misguided do-gooders that tabloid press have found and immediately accuse them of taking Christmas away.

As for the other stuff, you'll probably find it's in none Christian areas of Christian countries. They aren't taking Christmas away, they are suggesting ways to have Muslim or Jewish or every other none Christian belief take part in festivities while not offending them.

Irony is, the people don't actually care. Most people are of the belief that Mr Pointy is of, "If I visit another country I don't get offended by its customs and traditions...I may not like them but I respect them".

The moment it becomes an issue that we are being forced by Governments to change our beliefs then I will have an issue, however like I have stated, this isn't what is happening, what is happening is Tabloid Press want sensational headlines to sell news papers and they've found that these issues sell so they trawl through countless stories till they find it then plaster it on page one, causing people like you to whine and whinge that 'they're trying to take Christmas away' but then because of the last line of the article that generally reads 'We here at {insert the tabloid of choice} will always call it Christmas' or something similar, means you've just been suckered into believing that this paper believes what you believe.
This in turn means you're going to buy the paper again or maybe even a subscription.

Having read that, I think its pretty clear that I did NOT say there is something wrong with reporting news. What I did say was that news papers have a tendancy to TRAWL THROUGH STORIES for something that they can blow up out of all proportions and make a big deal to sell papers.

Ohh and as for your wonderful 'Holiday tree' story, I took this from the Boston Homepage where they seem to have no issue calling it Christmas Tree and having a very festive time.

City of Boston . GovThis will be the 66th annual Tree Lighting on Boston Common, sponsored by the Boston Parks and Recreation Department, title sponsor Novembera Scotia Come to life, WCVB-TV Channel 5, Magic 106.7 FM, and KeySpan.

The holiday decorations throughout Boston Common and The Public Garden, including the City's official Christmas tree, a 45- foot white spruce donated by Mr. and Mrs. Christopher Hamilton of Granville Center, Nova Scotia, will light up in sequence when Mayor Menino throws the switch with Santa Claus. The annual holiday display includes over 80 trees throughout Boston Common. The celebration on Boston Common will feature performers from Novembera Scotia and New England with WCVB TV- 5 providing live coverage of the festivities hosted by Mary Richardson and Anthony Everett.

There will be refreshments aplenty provided by in-kind sponsors including H.P. Hood eggnog, Cabot Creamery cheese, and beverages from Nantucket Nectars, Mistic, and 7UP's limited edition holiday product Pomegranate 7UP. The entertainment will include Jose Feliciano wishing the people of Boston and New England "Feliz Navidad" as he performs his signature tune along with the cast from "White Christmas," 2007 Boston POPSEARCH finalist Gisela Johnson, a Novembera Scotia Ceilidh, the Boston Children's Chorus, Jim Melody, the Juke Box Dance Academy, the Boston Arts Academy, the Masquerade cabaret troupe, and Magic 106.7's Candy O'Terry, Nancy Quill, and Mike Addams. Immediately following the Common tree lighting, Mayor Menino will join Back Bay residents at Arlington Street for the lighting of Commonwealth Avenue Mall.

Edit:

And on having an opinion concerning something that might be happening in another country, I agree with The Chosen. It's valid. I've done it, you've done it. Everybody I've ever talked to has done it, including people from other countries that had an opinion (often negative) concerning something that's happened in my own country. Such opinions are often relevant to something happening in their own country. In fact that's what's happening in this case. She wasn't saying let's go to war with the other country over it. She was saying it's OK to have and express the opinion. In fact if you want to disuss what's stupid, what I find really dumb is not being able to figure out what she was obviously trying to say.

OK, and to pick on this wonderful little nugget.
You're a fan of taking a look at what people say, so lets do that remembering the context of this conversation(that being the changing of Christmas to another name to appease other religions/beliefs one of the predominant being Muslim in the 'news' papers at the moment being they get the blame for everything now).

Some idiots in Asia are trying to ban Buffy.

Asia - hmmm. Picking Asia was obviously thought out. Why was that? What benefit does Asia have to the conversation unless his mind is in one place because of this discussion. Ohh thats right, the largest concentration of the worlds Muslims live in Asia. Could have chosen UK, US or any other country but instead chose the wonderful continent.

now an analogy is resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike and in this case TheChosen was using the situation as the resemblance with the locations changing and the subject also.
The Location was 'America/UK' and Buffy was 'Christmas'.

The basic premise was that if you believe in something you have to fight for it BUT it was what he used where the issue arose. In this case he was suggesting that if somewhere doesn't agree with you it's ok to go to them and force them to change, while at the same time arguing that its not OK for others to come to us and force us to change.

We all have opinions based on others but it is the moment we begin to force ours on others that we end up on a slippery slope back down a mountain we've not even managed half way yet.

His comment taken literally in context is very offensive. If he didn't mean it as such, he should be sure to think before he types, if however he did mean it as exactly that then we have a racist amongst us.
Now i'm guarenteed to get 'I'm not a racist, I didn't mean it like that' and I hope that he means it, but the fact he went there, suggests someone needs to think about it deeply.

 

[Angels baby101]

Quite honestly i think we could go through this thread without calling someones thoughts or idea's stupid for one it hurts other peoples feelings and for two everyone has their own opinions if you dont like them kindly disagree with them but to call someones thoughts or believes on the matter stupid is like a slap in the face...

I openned this thread because its not stupid its something real that i believe strongly about you know what this may never fully happen if it doesn't thats great but the point is its being thought about and honestly i think its really low and disgraceful in any way shape or form to try to change something thats been around for so long that everyone has grown accustom too and loves.... I think it is amazing how many people do get upset at this thing even those of us who do not celebrate

Christmas isn't about Presents or money to me honestly its about family and honestly its changed alot through the years and its sad I just dont want my child when he or she is born to have to miss out on all the things i love about christmas including that jolly ole fat santa claus in his sleigh with Dasher Dancer Prancer Vixen Comet Cubit Donor and Blitzen and of course Rudolf i want my kid to be able to sing christmas carols including Oh Christmas Tree i dont want it to be Oh Holiday tree

You can call this post stupid and you can find things wrong with it thats fine it wont bother me one bit because it wont change my thoughts and it wont make me stop saying what i have to say to every person who says Something i say is stupid Cause i am who i am and i'll be who i wanna be including in my posts and in my own words...

Now expressing opinions is fine and thinking someone is wrong is natural but maybe just maybe your wrong maybe that persons opinions does have some sorta truth in the matter... Now BoD you are one of the smartest people i know on here and you are so intellectual and truthfully some of us wish we could express our words as well as you but truth is we cant so you should be the sweet guy you can be on MSN and really stop insulting people even though i'm hoping you dont realize that your doing it so much

BTW N4H your very intellectual too 😉 dont get jealous 😛 lol

Let the debates begin agian i'm done my new rant 😀

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I wanted to stay away - but I read this and I have to say something

i think its really low and disgraceful in any way shape or form to try to change something thats been around for so long that everyone has grown accustom too and loves....

You mean like that funny little guy that came around 2050 years ago roughtly, goes by the name of Jesus.

Fact is change can be a good thing if its natural.
It can even be a good thing is there is a certain amount of pressure AS LONG AS no one is forced to do something that really goes against who they are.