Could Groo have been Jasmine's Dad?

[Schillaci]

i think it was very weird cos hello the women is black connor and cordy was not.

Whoa... I never noticed that. You're right, that is weird!!

Whoa.. who pushed my sarcasm button??

Clearly Connor isn't the dad cuz jazy is ze night bloomer. Who thinks Gunn slipped Cordy a mickey, then slipped her a charlie??

 

[Irish Spike]

I wouldn't saay Jasmine had a dad as such. She needed life force to be "born" but I don't think that's the same

 

[spuffy]

As much as I hated Connor with Cordy I still don't see anyone else as a father to Jasmine.

 

[Cohen]

well, anyone want to raise the issue of how much the jasmine concept sucked, and thinks the series could have been better if there was no jasmine? [mind you, that doesnt mean i dont love Gina Torres. I mean, have you seen her in Firefly and Alias?]

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

well, anyone want to raise the issue of how much the jasmine concept sucked, and thinks the series could have been better if there was no jasmine? [mind you, that doesnt mean i dont love Gina Torres. I mean, have you seen her in Firefly and Alias?]

The concept of Jasmine didn't suck.
The idea of one of the very beings Angel worked for coming down and trying to change things, basically doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, thus Angel having to destroy 'world peace' in order to save the things that it means to be human is a wicked(positive) concept.
I think its execution is where the problem was and even then I'm not entirely convinced it was bad.

We had a great arc there, one where Fredikins got to truly show her worth.
Nah, actually, I love season 4.

 

[Xin Rong]

The concept of Jasmine didn't suck.
The idea of one of the very beings Angel worked for coming down and trying to change things, basically doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, thus Angel having to destroy 'world peace' in order to save the things that it means to be human is a wicked(positive) concept.
I think its execution is where the problem was and even then I'm not entirely convinced it was bad.

We had a great arc there, one where Fredikins got to truly show her worth.
Nah, actually, I love season 4.

Think i'm definetly inclined to agree with you there

 

[Cohen]

The concept of Jasmine didn't suck.
The idea of one of the very beings Angel worked for coming down and trying to change things, basically doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, thus Angel having to destroy 'world peace' in order to save the things that it means to be human is a wicked(positive) concept.
I think its execution is where the problem was and even then I'm not entirely convinced it was bad.

We had a great arc there, one where Fredikins got to truly show her worth.
Nah, actually, I love season 4.

Okay, so the concept didnt suck. It was the damned pregnancy thing that I really didnt like. I mean, yes Charisma was pregnant, but they could have done something else with that. And on top of that, one pregnancy storyline right after another? That's also a bit repetitive. I didnt say I didnt like Season 4 either. I loved the beast idea. The only problem i had was cordelia's pregnancy and then Jasmine saying everything over the past 4 years was all Jasmine's plan. Because I really can't see that.

 

[Xin Rong]

Okay, so the concept didnt suck. It was the damned pregnancy thing that I really didnt like. I mean, yes Charisma was pregnant, but they could have done something else with that. And on top of that, one pregnancy storyline right after another? That's also a bit repetitive. I didnt say I didnt like Season 4 either. I loved the beast idea. The only problem i had was cordelia's pregnancy and then Jasmine saying everything over the past 4 years was all Jasmine's plan. Because I really can't see that.

See I'd have to disagree there also because i think they explained jasmines influence on their lives over the past years quite well

 

[Cohen]

I guess it's the problem I have with the whole God factor. Like, I believe in God, I just don't believe that he influences every single thing that happens in my life. I always picture it as God created this world, and watches how it plays out. He creates a person, and though he may play a hand in how a person gets to where they are by giving them certain gifts, but as far as pulling all the strings, that's thing thing I have a hard time believing. Which I guess is how Jasmine was.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I guess it's the problem I have with the whole God factor. Like, I believe in God, I just don't believe that he influences every single thing that happens in my life. I always picture it as God created this world, and watches how it plays out. He creates a person, and though he may play a hand in how a person gets to where they are by giving them certain gifts, but as far as pulling all the strings, that's thing thing I have a hard time believing. Which I guess is how Jasmine was.

See in this comment you have just said you believe in God but you don't believe he influences every single thing that happens in like.
Then you go on to say you do believe God pulls some strings.
If that sits well with you then why do you use it as a means to say Jasmines 'gifts' were unbelievable.

First of all we don't get told that every single thing on the planet is controlled by Jasmine, just the events that matter to get the gang to where she needs them.

If she truly controlled every aspect of all these lives, would it really have taken so long with so much planning to get the group where they are?

I don't actually see a problem with one of these higher powers affecting certain events within the lives of Angel and co that big a deal CONSIDERING that was kinda the premise.
The PTB's send Angel messages through Doyle, and later Cordelia, that he feels a certain obligation to do, thus they control him.
Then we also know these same beings have the ability to reverse some of Angels 'mistakes'.
Fact is, they do control him to an extent but are more obvious about it.
When Angel wants something that benefits him and his cause, they ignore but when he wants something they do want, the oblige.

Jasmine was not God, just a being that carefully manipulated events in 'our' world to make its accessible to her through Angel.

 

[Cohen]

See in this comment you have just said you believe in God but you don't believe he influences every single thing that happens in like.
Then you go on to say you do believe God pulls some strings.
If that sits well with you then why do you use it as a means to say Jasmines 'gifts' were unbelievable.

First of all we don't get told that every single thing on the planet is controlled by Jasmine, just the events that matter to get the gang to where she needs them.

If she truly controlled every aspect of all these lives, would it really have taken so long with so much planning to get the group where they are?

I don't actually see a problem with one of these higher powers affecting certain events within the lives of Angel and co that big a deal CONSIDERING that was kinda the premise.
The PTB's send Angel messages through Doyle, and later Cordelia, that he feels a certain obligation to do, thus they control him.
Then we also know these same beings have the ability to reverse some of Angels 'mistakes'.
Fact is, they do control him to an extent but are more obvious about it.
When Angel wants something that benefits him and his cause, they ignore but when he wants something they do want, the oblige.

Jasmine was not God, just a being that carefully manipulated events in 'our' world to make its accessible to her through Angel.

Actually, I never meant to imply Jasmine controlled everything on the planet. What I meant was, I think it's hard to believe Jasmine made everything that happened to AI in those 3 years before Cordy ascended happen, which is what I got from watching the 4th season.

 

[Xin Rong]

I cant really see why its so hard to believe. Seems quite simple to me to be honest. Perfecr example is the episode with cordy and skip where they how simply walking to a different area in a room can have such a butterfly effect

 

[The Arcane]

Jasmine didn't control everything that happened. Control suggests that everyone involved, from Angel to Cordy to Connor, were puppets with no say in what they did with their lives. Not the case.

All Jasmine did was to influence events and depend on the natures of the people she was trying to manipulate to do the rest. For example, Jasmine needed Connor born and so she needed it possible for Darla to give birth, which meant she needed Angel to perform the Trial, which meant she needed Lorne to be able to tell Angel that the Trial existed in the first place. All she could do was put the pieces in the right place at the right time and hope that they would make the choices she expected them to make until everything was set up correctly for her to play her hand and be reborn. Anything more than that, even if she was actually capable of being able to directly control a human's (or demon's) actions, would have meant the other PtB were able to see what she was planning and prevent it whilst she was still within their realm, where they could choose to act and stop her.

Basically though, I think a lot of fans of Angel took what Skip told us about Jasmine as suggesting that everything we had seen since Angel and Cordy met at the party in City Of was just about what Jasmine wanted and that it had all been for her benefit when in truth all she really did was use the events she saw already in progress to help her own plan come into being. Yes, many seemingly seperate events had to come together in order for Jasmine to be reborn but that doesn't mean that those events happened only for that purpose. She was just "all-knowing" enough to be able to benefit from them.