Could Spike really be drowned?

[StarSlayer]

My theory about the blood though is, because they eat blood, maybe it makes it flow.... maybe?

That's what I thought, since blood gives vampires "life." Maybe that's what makes them "breathe" a little bit? Just speculating there though. Also, with the blood, it has to flow through them somehow or else they would look like walking skeletons.

 

[white avenger]

In answer to the original question, if it actually is possible for a vampire to drown, it would take a very, VERY long time. Remember, Angel stayed submerged for the whole summer between Seasons 3 and 4 of his own show, and he didn't drown. Submerge a vampire for a few dozen centuries, and we might have an actual answer to the question. Until then, it's just another astronauts and cave men debate.

That doesn't mean, however, that a vampire would be able to actually HOLD ITS BREATH all that time, since respiration is an involuntary reflex. After only a few minutes of submersion, respiration would start again, despite how determined Spike would be to not breathe. Water in the lungs could very well be just as irritating to vampires as it is to living humans, hence the coughing and choking. Add to that, there could have been just enough holy water mixed in with the regular water to make it irritate the more delicate tissue in his lungs without burning his skin.

 

[TeamSunnydale]

I think that vampires are just used to breathing, and a cut off of oxygen wouldn't kill them, but would be a bit of a shock to the system.
Also, i don't think that spike was in a very good place mentally. He was a bit...insane, and he was being tortured.

 

[arabella]

The inner-workings of the vampire body are mystical. They need blood to live, yet their bodies are dead. Dead bodies should mean dead brains, dead hearts, dead lungs. And yet the brain must work and the blood must circulate and clearly we have evidence that points towards respiration. I vote that the blood is circulated by magic to allow the other organ systems to function. I mean the brain and lungs must have some functionality even if magic and not a beating heart is what circulates the blood. You can't talk without breath, you can do anything (walk, talk, breathe) without the brain.

Its all impossible non-sense that must be magical and is clearly inconsistent in the series.
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---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

Oh, and no, I don't think Spike was drowning. I think the was just panicking.
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[Scarlett Blade]

Spike could have just held his breath, since he didn't need the oxegen anyway. I think this just boils down to an inconsistensy in the plot, and not some kind of far-fetched explanation (no offense).

 

[Gum Gnome33]

We know that vampires "breathe" because vampires talk. Their lungs don't function as a human's does, (ie no exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide), but the inhalation and exhalation of air is what enables the vocal chords to open and to vibrate.

So while water getting in the lungs would have to be irritating and perhaps painful for a vampire, it wouldn't be life threatening. But the real question is, as Spuffy4ever pointed out, why didn't Spike just hold his breath while they were attempting to "drown" him? He should have been able to keep it up for a while. And that's where I think the plot hole is.
Unless...

Fanwank warning!! Maybe Spike was trying to act as though the "drowning" attempt was working so that the first would think he was making progress in his torturing attempts. And, of course, the first was monumentally dumb--not knowing what it takes to kill a vampire.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

It was mixed with holy water. There were crosses in the water. Probably what made him itchy.

 

[Carrrrgh]

It was mixed with holy water. There were crosses in the water. Probably what made him itchy.

Jackpot!!! That's definitely the reason lol. Good eye 😀

 

[VisionGirl]

I don't think any of their organs work. My theory about the blood though is, because they eat blood, maybe it makes it flow.... maybe?

So, how do we explain vampire sex? 😉

There's only one thing in this world more powerful than evil. And that's...

...a continuity error.

LOL, ITA! It's all errors on the part of the writers. But fanwanking is fun, should be an Olympic sport!

 

[Willow My Love]

If Spike breathes, how come Angel couldn't save Buffy in Prophecy Girl?

He doesn't breathe. I think the writers forget what rules they've written.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

If Spike breathes, how come Angel couldn't save Buffy in Prophecy Girl?
He doesn't breathe. I think the writers forget what rules they've written.

You're totally right about that, but he does have to be exhaling in order to talk. Try holding your breath and talking at the same time, lol! Unless vampires talk through pure magic, he does have to inhale and exhale. He just doesn't have to use the oxygen he draws in.
Which is why that scene in Prophecy Girl makes no sense!
I did see someone theorize though, (and I think someone repeated it in this thread) that maybe his lungs don't draw in (or hold) the same volume of air that a human's does, which would make CPR almost impossible.

But you're right, he does say "I have no breath." The fact that someone can say "I have no breath" is hilarious and has always bothered me. *Shrugs.* I chalk it up to this taking place in Season 1 where there are other inconsistencies compared with the rest of the series--specifically regarding Buffy's strength and how effective crucifixes are on vampires.

The only other thing I can think of is that it's pure magic that enables vampires to talk without having to push out air. Maybe simply because they are "otherworldy" creatures, the laws of physics don't apply to them as they do to us? But then...it looks like gravity and inertia have plenty of an effect on them...bah. Just plain inconsistent 🙂

 

[Taaroko]

This is assuming that Angel even knows anything about the human respiratory system to begin with. Why would he bother to learn about it when it hasn't applied to him since 1753, when very little was known about it at all? As Angelus, he wouldn't have cared. Then, he spent most of his time post-curse brooding while cut off from all human society, and he's been living in alleys and sewers since the '70s, which was when CPR first started being taught to the public. He probably just figured that, being dead, he's incapable of restoring life.

And no, Spike couldn't have been drowned. Not fatally, anyway. Angel was at the bottom of the ocean for months. He would have used up the oxygen in that box within hours down there if his lungs actually did anything with it. He also survived a demon dimension with an atmosphere toxic to humans. So lung action for vampires does happen, but seems to be purely mechanical (facilitating speech, sense of smell, smoking, etc). Still, I imagine anyone would find it jarring to have their head forced underwater whether or not drowning is an option. If Spike was still going through the motions of breathing while his head was under, he would have ended up with lots of water in his lungs, and there's no way that feels pleasant.

 

[The Unspoken]

You're totally right about that, but he does have to be exhaling in order to talk. Try holding your breath and talking at the same time, lol! Unless vampires talk through pure magic, he does have to inhale and exhale. He just doesn't have to use the oxygen he draws in.
Which is why that scene in Prophecy Girl makes no sense!

Vampires also don't have a beating heart that pumps the blood around, which is of course required for a human body to function. I think it makes the most sense if we assume there's an external, mystical force that allows vampires to have a fully functioning body. Therefore, their vital organs like heart and lungs don't function and they don't need oxygen, water, etc.

At any rate, Marti Noxon really should learn to think it through whenever she wants to get Spike shirtless. 🙂

 

[moopop]

At any rate, Marti Noxon really should learn to think it through whenever she wants to get Spike shirtless.

Why does Angel sweat in Season 3? He's got no body heat. What is he doing Tai Chi for? Why does he pant when waking up in Amends?

Such mistakes go back all through both series. Maybe Joss should think it through, too.

 

[The Unspoken]

Why does Angel sweat in Season 3? He's got no body heat. What is he doing Tai Chi for? Why does he pant when waking up in Amends?

Such mistakes go back all through both series. Maybe Joss should think it through, too.

I'm not sure if vampires being able to sweat contradicts the vampire mythos, but even if it does, David Boreanaz accidentally sweating or panting in season 3 doesn't affect the plot. The First choosing drowning as a torture method for Spike however does. That's why only the latter is a 'true' continuity error.

But then again, we have Spike choking Drusilla in 'Becoming', which was written by Joss. 🙂

 

[Taaroko]

I'm not sure if vampires being able to sweat contradicts the vampire mythos, but even if it does, David Boreanaz accidentally sweating or panting in season 3 doesn't affect the plot. The First choosing drowning as a torture method for Spike however does. That's why only the latter is a 'true' continuity error.

But then again, we have Spike choking Drusilla in 'Becoming', which was written by Joss. 🙂

Agreed. We can hardly expect the actors to suppress involuntary things like sweating and breathing (and aging). Also, since air chokes and blood chokes shouldn't work on vampires for obvious reasons, can't we just say that Spike did some kind of nerve choke on Dru and call it a day?

 

[VisionGirl]

Vampires also don't have a beating heart that pumps the blood around, which is of course required for a human body to function. I think it makes the most sense if we assume there's an external, mystical force that allows vampires to have a fully functioning body. Therefore, their vital organs like heart and lungs don't function and they don't need oxygen, water, etc.

At any rate, Marti Noxon really should learn to think it through whenever she wants to get Spike shirtless. 🙂

But vampires do bleed, so they must have some blood circulating around.

 

[Taaroko]

But vampires do bleed, so they must have some blood circulating around.

You don't need circulation to bleed. Corpses bleed too, just not as much. Heck, even medium-rare steaks bleed when you cut into them.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I can't remember exactly since I haven't seen it in a few months; does he "choke" her or press on her carotid arteries so that she "faints?" Either way, the former would mean she needed oxygen to survive, and the latter would mean she had a heart beat that could be slowed to the point of fainting, so this scene was always so frustrating to watch as well, LOL.
It starts to get crazy if you think about these things too much though; I mean, it would have been so much easier for Spike to just slip Dru a sedative but then we'd all be complaining about how sedatives shouldn't really work on vampires because they don't have the same body chemistry...no heart beat... etc etc. The scene had to happen somehow. Like others have said, think we all have to make peace with these irritating inconsistencies.

I vaguely remember when the show was on, people were obsessed with explaining on the posting boards how it was possible for vampires to have sex when they didn't have pulses. I mean the whole thing makes no sense scientifically. 🙂

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I wish he had just hit her over the head. Dru had to go down, but for crying out loud, just use a pipe or something.

I know, I know, not a huge continuity error, but so annoying. Specially since in the same scene, they do the "Character being carried, is sleeping, yet has their arm around the carrying character's neck". I know that's to make it easier for the actors, but still. Two annoying things in one scene.

---------- Post added at 09:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

Actually, three annoying things; Very visible stunt doubles.

"That DB! That's the stunt double. DB!! Stunt double..."