Did Angel get stronger on his move to L.A.?

[Edmund Blackadder]

Glory was JUST a demon. An old, powerful, demon.

For a start, Glory was a God, but could this be a Freudian on your part?...lol

Glory is a powerful being. One we are told was part of a trio of Demons who ruled another dimension, how was growing in power and forced from their to the Human Dimension....fair game.
We also know that she was only a fraction of the power she was in her home dimension...but we have no idea what that fraction is.
She could have been working at 10% of her power in Bens body...or it could have been 90% so you can't say that she left alot, because we just don't know.

We know from Drogyn

DROGYN
I'll tell you as much as I can. The old ones were demons pure. They warred as we would breathe"”endlessly. The greater ones were interred, for death was not always their end. Illyria was feared and beloved as few are. It was laid to death in the very depths of the well... until it disappeared a month ago

Illyria was an old one, a Pure Demon, A greater one to be interred. This also suggest to me that she had incredible power, as we are also told she warred as easily as we breathed.
We don't know this about Glory. All we know is she was powerful and that she was part of a three.

also

DROGYN
Illyria was a great power"”so great that, after millions of years dead, somewhere on this Earth still has acolytes

We are not at any point told that Glory has minions or an army in her own dimension, we know she has minions in this one, the Scabby ones.

Illyria on the other hand, she had an Army, she also still had acolytes. Drogyn makes it clear how important and powerful she was by saying "after millions of years dead, somewhere on this Earth still has acolytes".

There is no evidence to support an argument that Glory could have beaten Illyria, who we know had the potential power within to destroy everything from a five mile radius to the entire tectonic shelf....

The References that PZ use are supportive in Illyrias argument because of the influence and Power that Drogyn warrants her....plus she has no reason to lie.

1. Buffy had that hammer, it was the hammer of a god no less.

The Troll Hammer was indeed a powerful tool, but what made that any different to being hit by the truck. She appeared to recover from that well, its only becauseof the change backto Ben that she doesnt get Buffy.
Also, the Troll hammer being a weapon of a God is suspect. On what evidence is this. Olaf was not a Troll God, all we have is a the Anya comment...whichto me isnt enough to argue the case for it........

2. Willow brain drained her, leaving her at a near insane state. so instead of being at 100% she was prolly at like... 60%, maybe even less.

She wasnt at a near insane state, she was knocked off coursementally for a few seconds but as soon as she destroys the Dagon Sphere which is whats actually causing theissue, she is back to her strong full powered self.

3. The orb of whatever, it probably did something to mess her up.

See above

4. she had a small window of opportunite to get back to her dimension, so she was rushed and probably panicking.

Glory perceived Buffy as an annoyance so she wouldnt panic, why would she. Would you panic ofver a Flea attacking you...no.
The Timing is also not a major factor, shedoesnt halfway through the fight look at her watch and say...sorry i gotta go.
Glory on the scafolding, was at full power, Buffy lost the Hammer, if Glory was that strong, she'd have killed her then.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

It's a known fact that she was a demon, just a mere rumor that she was a God. Not proven by any means.


Ok sweetie, there's a difference. When people talk about Dawn they are saying she was whiny, which that much is true, but that's not something like saying.. Dawn's ugly. I understand that not everyone likes Glory, but when you start bringing things like that out of context, knowing someone would take offense to that, you've crossed a fine line.

Not being funny, but i take offence to you being offended.
It wasn't meant in a malicious way, it was a light comment in a heated debate made by someone who was referencing a comical, yet pivotal moment around the character you are defending.
Do you get annoyed at Spike because he said it out of context?

 

[HellGods]

Glory was JUST a demon. An old, powerful, demon.


For a start, Glory was a God, but could this be a Freudian on your part?...lol

yupp whoops, heated debate does that to me sometimes.

or it could have been 90% so you can't say that she left alot, because we just don't know.

Yes, but from what we know a God should be able to have some sort of power, such as the ability to shoot bolts of lightening from her bare hands, which would take quite a bit of power. So it's safe to assume that she had alot more power back at home. Atleast 50%.

She wasn't at a near insane state, she was knocked off coursementally for a few seconds but as soon as she destroys the Dagon Sphere which is whats actually causing theissue, she is back to her strong full powered self.

Pretty close to a near insane state, Willow brain drained her. Do you remember what happened when Glory brain drained others? They turned insane. Glory wasn't at 100%.

The Troll Hammer was indeed a powerful tool, but what made that any different to being hit by the truck.

What made it different was that she was being hit repeatedly by that hammer. and we know it was the hammer of a god, because we are told that by Anya who has no reason to exaggerate the hammer's power, why would she want to give them misleading information when they are about to engage the battle with Glory?

Glory on the scafolding, was at full power, Buffy lost the Hammer, if Glory was that strong, she'd have killed her then.

Once again, not at full power.

Do you get annoyed at Spike because he said it out of context

But it wasn't out of context... he was doing it to piss Glory off so she would kick him off the chain and give him the chance to escape with his.. life? Or is it death? Well w.e you get my point.

Bottom line, to me, the comment was offensive. You don't just talk about her ass being lopsided when that has nothing to do with the conversation. What else could it have been meant to do than piss me off?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yes, but from what we know a God should be able to have some sort of power, such as the ability to shoot bolts of lightening from her bare hands, which would take quite a bit of power. So it's safe to assume that she had alot more power back at home. Atlease 50%.

How do we know this....the only Gods we have reference to are Glory and Illyria......theres no safe to assume anything at all. All we know for sure is that Glory was fast and Strong. There is nothing that states Glory had other powers...

Pretty close to a near insane state, Willow brain drained her. Do you remember what happened when Glory brain drained others? They turned insane. Glory wasn't at 100%.

Glory being brain Drained as a God can't be compared to a Human being Brain Drained because they are two separate entities.
The only time we see Glory go insane mildly is when she hasnt digested a brains power for a while, and that Glory and the one after Willow's attack are no where near the same state. Glory regained her composure as soon as the Dagon Sphere was destroyed. Back to 100%.

What made it different was that she was being hit repeaditly by that hammer. and we know it was the hammer of a god, because we are told that by Anya who has no reason to exaggerate the hammer's power, why would she want to give them misleading information when they are about to ingage the battle with Glory?

Why would Illyria exaggerate her powers to beings she sees in the same line as we see insects. No reason at all.
There is no reference to it being the Hammer of a god except that one tiny forced part from Anya. The Hammer hit Buffy a few times in Triangle yet she seemed to be perfectly fine after, so a God should be able to take that beating.

Once again, not at full power.

She really was at full power at this point.

But it wasn't out of context... he was doing it to piss Glory off so she would kick him off the chain and give him the chance to escape with his.. life? Or is it death? Well w.e you get my point.

Bottom line, to me, the comment was offensive. You don't just talk about her ass being lopsided when that has nothing to do with the conversation. What else could it have been meant to do than piss me off?

If it was meant to piss you off then it WAS in context as thats what Spike wanted to do....HOWEVER if you knew these boards you would know that commenst like that are meant in jest

 

[PrincessZombie]

Ok sweetie, there's a difference. When people talk about Dawn they are saying she was whiny, which that much is true, but that's not something like saying.. Dawn's ugly. I understand that not everyone likes Glory, but when you start bringing things like that out of context, knowing someone would take offense to that, you've crossed a fine line.

Okay, it was made as a funny comment, probably just to try to lighten up the thread. Nobody was trying to offend you, I'm sure. It wasn't a malicious comment aimed at you solely because we know Glory is your favorite character. People have differing opinions on this board, that's what makes it interesting here. You can't take offense every time someone says something bad about a character you like.

 

[HellGods]

But she was still brain-drained, although she was a God it was still probably an experience that took her back. It took away from her sanity and any recent brain drain that she must have taken, would have been taken right back from Willow.

and If I remember.. after being hit by Olaf's hammer, buffy was flung across the room. That hammer was strong, Spike couldn't even lift it.

There's still no solid proof that Illyria was a god, all we know is that she is an old demon. She herself could have said that she was a demon, lying to Angel to make her look more powerfull was probably the best course of action, from her POV, he was the leader of a new world. If she wanted to figure out this new world, she was going to need to do everything in her power to convince him that she's worthy.


and as for the comment made.. how would I find that funny? Being a huge fan of Glory that's not something I would want to hear so why say it when were having a conversation? It doesn't make sense.

VisionGuy disagrees: If it's so ridiculous, you should'nt have started the argument.

It wasn't meant to be an arguement, I said one thing about it and you changed the arguement. But then you just had to make this whole big paragraph about it and start being rediculous.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

But she was still brain-drained, although she was a God it was still probably an experience that took her back. It took away from her sanity and any recent brain drain that she must have taken, would have been taken right back from Willow.

We see Glory get Dizzy BUT this could also be the Dagons Sphere as soon as Glory destroys that she is backto her normal self.
Fact is, arguing that she was weakened for so long by that brain drain diminishes her God status that a simple witch could cause that much damage.

and If I remember.. after being hit by Olaf's hammer, buffy was flung across the room. That hammer was strong, Spike couldn't even lift it.

Yes Buffy did get beaten a few times then sent across theroom...yet stood up ok. Now if Buffy can do that i'm sure a God can.

There's still no solid proof that Illyria was a god, all we know is that she is an old demon. She herself could have said that she was a demon, lying to Angel to make her look more powerfull was probably the best course of action, from her POV, he was the leader of a new world. If she wanted to figure out this new world, she was going to need to do everything in her power to convince him that she's worthy.

She has no reason to lie. As far as she is concerned Angel etal, are weak humans and half-breeds, she doesnt need to impress, just tell them like it is.
Her words are that she is a God to the Gods, so we take it because that is what sheis.

 

[VisionGuy]

Okay, you keep going on and on about how I was "ridiculous" because I pointed out the fact that I used Spike's quote from Intervention. You're the one that started crying like a little girl just because I said that Buffy kicked Glory's lopsided ass, which she did. Anyone, who reads this thread will see that you started it. You called me immature FIRST.You said all that before I even posted anything about the subject.

 

[HellGods]

We see Glory get Dizzy BUT this could also be the Dagons Sphere as soon as Glory destroys that she is backto her normal self.
Fact is, arguing that she was weakened for so long by that brain drain diminishes her God status that a simple witch could cause that much damage.

But we know that Willow isn't just a simple witch. She shortly afterwords becomes the strongest witch in the western hemisphere. It doesn't "diminish her God status" because someone snuck up behind her and cast a spell on her. The truth is, I don't think any weak witch could perfom that kind of spell. If you notices, even Willow was knocked back by her own spell.
and I'm sure there were other things going on inside Glory that we couldn't see.

Yes Buffy did get beaten a few times then sent across theroom...yet stood up ok. Now if Buffy can do that i'm sure a God can.

Yes but we still know that this hammer was very strong, enough to give her the upper hand against a weakend Glory.

She has no reason to lie. As far as she is concerned Angel etal, are weak humans and half-breeds, she doesnt need to impress, just tell them like it is.
Her words are that she is a God to the Gods, so we take it because that is what sheis.

She has plenty of reason to lie, if she wants to find out where to go from here she's going to need to know what's happening in the current world, so by saying that it would intimidate Angel and Wesley, so in her mind I'm guessing that was the best way to go about it.


I also forgot to add that human emotions were beggining to grasp her conscious, being with Ben for so long. She was beggining to feel guilt, and other human feelings which would make her hesitate at the last minute. And if being with Ben weakend her emotionally, who's to say it hasn't weakened her physically as well?

 

[PrincessZombie]

She has plenty of reason to lie, if she wants to find out where to go from here she's going to need to know what's happening in the current world, so by saying that it would intimidate Angel and Wesley, so in her mind I'm guessing that was the best way to go about it.

She doesn't need to lie. Illyria had a lot of power, surely she could intimidate a vampire and an ex-watcher without saying that she's a god if she wasn't.

I also forgot to add that human emotions were beggining to grasp her conscious, being with Ben for so long. She was beggining to feel guilt, and other human feelings which would make her hesitate at the last minute. And if being with Ben weakend her emotionally, who's to say it hasn't weakened her physically as well?

When did she start feeling human emotions? I don't remember that at all. Do you have some specific instances? It's been a long time since I've seen season 5 of Buffy. 🙂

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

But we know that Willow isn't just a simple witch. She shortly afterwords becomes the strongest witch in the western hemisphere. It doesn't "diminish her God status" because someone snuck up behind her and cast a spell on her. The truth is, I don't think any weak witch could perfom that kind of spell. If you notices, even Willow was knocked back by her own spell.
and I'm sure there were other things going on inside Glory that we couldn't see.

Shortly afterwards is an entire year.
She is still only a simple witch when she performs the Spell on Glory, heck she doesnt even go black eye. The Spell and the Dagon Sphere combined do drain her but

Glory herself tells us she is back to her full strength with the way she beats the Bot and with what she says. The Hammer too doesnt have much effect on her at the beginning.....the scene is to long to specific quote i recommend you go to afull script with directions to see this.

Yes but we still know that this hammer was very strong, enough to give her the upper hand against a weakend Glory.

She had regained her compsiure and strength by the time the Hammer appears

She has plenty of reason to lie, if she wants to find out where to go from here she's going to need to know what's happening in the current world, so by saying that it would intimidate Angel and Wesley, so in her mind I'm guessing that was the best way to go about it.

She is too confident of herself to give a damn what a human and a half breed have to say. This confidence is evident all the way to NFA. This is who she is, she doesnt lie again after we first meet her so why should be accuse her of lying and exaggeration then....no reason at all.

Looki know you are jonesing for Glory, but you have no proof that she would best Illyria. Yoir arguement that Illyria is not a God is also flawed because of the fact she has no reason to lie and states it.

 

[HellGods]

When did she start feeling human emotions? I don't remember that at all. Do you have some specific instances? It's been a long time since I've seen season 5 of Buffy.

Gladly🙂. There's another one I'm having trouble finding, if you want it i can get that one too though.

Glory: (picking at the hem of the dress) Don't be so hard on the boy. He just wants to live. Most guys would do the same. Besides, he's probably the reason your sis and her little cartoon pals are still alive. That little nagging pinch of humanity that makes me go for the hurt instead of the kill. (looks at Dawn) Lowering myself to trade blows with the Slayer when I should have just put my fist through her heart.

Glory stands up and holds up the dress to look at it.

Shortly afterwards is an entire year.
She is still only a simple witch when she performs the Spell on Glory, heck she doesnt even go black eye. The Spell and the Dagon Sphere combined do drain her but

Glory herself tells us she is back to her full strength with the way she beats the Bot and with what she says. The Hammer too doesnt have much effect on her at the beginning.....the scene is to long to specific quote i recommend you go to afull script with directions to see this.

She also performs a thought to be impossible revival spell (2?) months after the battle. Glory never comes out and says "I'm back to 100%", your just inferring that. She's still shaken up by the attack from Willow.

Illyria is an over proud creature, my arguement isn't flawed, we know Illyria is a demon, not a god. She can't just go and kill everyone if she wants to find answeres, she has it good with Angel right now, she has a way into the world and she's not going to miss her chance now.

I'm tired of arguing this point, you think Illyrias stronger, I think Glory. Bottom line is, in Glory's home dimension she would best Illyria with that extra reserve of power. If you don't think this than that's fine, but I highly doubt Illyria would win. I have a thread on another board proving additional points but I'll post it tommorrow concidering I can't find it now.

You cannot prove that Glory would beat Illyria the God King

we don't know she is a "God" all we have is her word on the matter, as well as one of her acolytes. Of course they're going to make it seem like she was a God, whether they have reason to lie or not, Illyria is a proud creature, if you look back on everything she's said you can't sit there and say that there is no way that she wasn't exaggerating or boasting of the power she may or may not have had.

And if you re-watch the first three seasons of Buffy then start watching Angel you will notice that power is exaggerated.

if Illyria were to use any of her time altering powers, they would have no affect on Glory, concidering she has super-speed so it would negate the effect.

We've seen how fast Glory is, she could just keep using super-fast attacks and Illyria would fall. They never did this on Buffy because having Glory kill Buffy would be.. well it would destroy the series.

Oh and Dia, since I couldn't edit I had to add this in:

Giles: (pouring tea) Uh, usually, yes, but um, being in human form must be severely limiting her powers. All we have to worry about right now is she's immortal, invulnerable, and insane.

So this means that Glory must have had to be at at the most, only 70% of her actually power, key word SEVERELY. But I'm guessing she was more along the lines of about 30-40% of her actual power. Also, so we know she wasn't a weak god, Giles also says that she was the God of a very unpleasant demon dimension. This tells us she must have had to have been pretty tough.

Sorry for the tripple post, btw!

 

[WatcherWes]

Who is to say that being a God confers greater power than being a demon?

 

[HellGods]

Well... God verse Demon.. a demon is pretty much just a monster, a God has infinite power, or that's the impression I get atleast.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

She also performs a thought to be impossible revival spell (2?) months after the battle. Glory never comes out and says "I'm back to 100%", your just inferring that. She's still shaken up by the attack from Willow.

Who said it was an impossible Spell? The Episode after the Body Willow lets Dawn know that Spells like that are possible.
Dawn with no magic abilities on show manages to pull of one such Spell. Granted it was different in its realisation but Dawn still manages to reanimate a body...ALl Willow had to do was reanimate and infuse Buffy's soul.....and we know she has been able to reintegrate Souls since season 2.
But by that same token, you are inferring that she is not back to herself, even though she shows after attacking the BuffyBot that she is as strong as we've ever seen her.....

Illyria is an over proud creature, my arguement isn't flawed, we know Illyria is a demon, not a god. She can't just go and kill everyone if she wants to find answeres, she has it good with Angel right now, she has a way into the world and she's not going to miss her chance now.

We do know she is a God, not because she says so, but because the writers chose to make her and Knox say it. She is srrogant, yes but because of her stature Even when Wesley is telling the Gang who she is, he doesnt say Demon, he say

Illyria, a great monarch and warrior of the demon age murdered by rivals and left adrift in the Deeper Well.

You say she isnt a God, but you only have the fact no one else has used that term, you are blinded by the fact because you wish it not so as this would make her a worthy opponent of your favourite character. That is where your argument is flawed. Until Time Bomb she is practically invincible. Until she realises her Army has desserted her she has no reason to need any one other the her Priest, so

She can't just go and kill everyone if she wants to find answeres, she has it good with Angel right now, she has a way into the world and she's not going to miss her chance now

is wrong, as the only reason she doesnt kill them is because she knows they are no threat. Infact when she does perceive them a threat she kills every single one of the team in the lab thing.

I'm tired of arguing this point, you think Illyrias stronger, I think Glory. Bottom line is, in Glory's home dimension she would best Illyria with that extra reserve of power. If you don't think this than that's fine, but I highly doubt Illyria would win. I have a thread on another board proving additional points but I'll post it tommorrow concidering I can't find it now.

You maybe tired of arguing it but you have continued. Its not even a question of who would win in a fight any more, its the fact you refuse to accept the possibility that Illyria is strong enough, even though we have witnessed great feats before the zapper in Time Bomb that bring her as worthy.
As for Glory's home dimension, you cannot say that because you have no idea the true extent of Glory's powers, you are making an assumption that she was alot stronger, yet if she was really that strong, how did she come to be trapped in this dimension.

we don't know she is a "God" all we have is her word on the matter, as well as one of her acolytes. Of course they're going to make it seem like she was a God, whether they have reason to lie or not, Illyria is a proud creature, if you look back on everything she's said you can't sit there and say that there is no way that she wasn't exaggerating or boasting of the power she may or may not have had.

Thats not the point, she has no reason to lie, not when she says it. If you look back on Glory's instances you see she is exaggerating alot too. Checkpoint, comes to mind. Buffy makes the realisation that Glory is all talk and no action. She has plenty of opportunities to kill Buffy yet she never does. Infact the only thing we see her do to truly affect the gang is the Brain thing With Tara, which Willow manages to change.....some all powerful God. When Buffy gopes to fight Glory properly, Buffy wins.....not Super Speedy Glory.

And if you re-watch the first three seasons of Buffy then start watching Angel you will notice that power is exaggerated.
if Illyria were to use any of her time altering powers, they would have no affect on Glory, concidering she has super-speed so it would negate the effect.
We've seen how fast Glory is, she could just keep using super-fast attacks and Illyria would fall. They never did this on Buffy because having Glory kill Buffy would be.. well it would destroy the series.

Explain the whole Exxageration of Power....you have said this a few times, but have yet to truly prove how in Angel power is exaggerated yet in Buffy its 'normal'.
Thats an assumption based on the fact that we have seen Glory run fast.
Glory can run fast yes, but Illyria doesnt move faster, she affects time and space. Glory would still be affected.

So this means that Glory must have had to be at at the most, only 70% of her actually power, key word SEVERELY. But I'm guessing she was more along the lines of about 30-40% of her actual power. Also, so we know she wasn't a weak god, Giles also says that she was the God of a very unpleasant demon dimension. This tells us she must have had to have been pretty tough.

Again that quote isnt Giles saying he knows for a fact, he is suggesting that a God in a human Body couldnt maintain full power because it would destro...wait a minute where have we seen this before?
Your numbers too are based on pure speculation...you cannot give a figure because there is no evidence. Glory is assumed to be weaker and i concede that is probably the case, but until someone in authority gives precise details
you cannot be sure if its 1% or 99% weaker so your argument their is flawed on that basis.
Pylea is classed as an unpleasant Demon Dimension yet i wouldn't say there was anything their Angel and co couldnt have beaten...so again assumption.

 

[PrincessZombie]

And if you re-watch the first three seasons of Buffy then start watching Angel you will notice that power is exaggerated.

How would I notice that? I've watched every Buffy and Angel season in order, and never have I noticed an exaggeration of power. How are you backing this statement up?

if Illyria were to use any of her time altering powers, they would have no affect on Glory, concidering she has super-speed so it would negate the effect.

We've seen how fast Glory is, she could just keep using super-fast attacks and Illyria would fall. They never did this on Buffy because having Glory kill Buffy would be.. well it would destroy the series.

Like DDLM said, going fast and actually affecting time and space are two very different things. Angel and Spike are pretty fast, too (granted, not as fast as Glory) but they're still affected just as bad as Wesley, a human, is.

 

[HellGods]

Tara: (steps forward) Of course you wanna bring your mother back, and ... I wish we could, but it's not possible.
Dawn: Why? You guys do magic for all kinds of things.
Willow: We do, but...
Tara: This is different. Magic can't be used to alter the natural order of things.
Dawn: But all you do is mess with the natural order of things. You, you make things float, a-and disappear, and-
Tara: But we don't mess with life and death. (Shot of Willow looking upset) Dawn, I know how bad you hurt.
Dawn: You don't. (upset) They put her in the ground.
Tara: They did, and it's awful and unfair, but this isn't the way.
Willow: I'm not even sure it's possible, Dawn. I mean, I've ... seen things on resurrection, but ... there's books and stuff ... but I guess ... the spells ... backfire?
Tara: That's not the point.
Willow: That's not the point. The, the point is it's bad ... because ...
Tara: Because witches can't be allowed to alter the fabric of life for selfish reasons. Wiccans took an oath a long time ago to honor that.
Dawn: So it's possible ... to bring someone back? They wouldn't have taken an oath if thy didn't know they could do it.
Tara: Maybe they could, but we can't.
Willow: She's right, Dawn. It's too dangerous.

There's your proof that it was a dangerous and nearly impossible spell. We don't even know what the spell Dawn cast even did. Who knows if it even worked? There was a knock at the door.. okay.. that doesn't mean that her mom came back for sure.

even though she shows after attacking the BuffyBot that she is as strong as we've ever seen her.....

If you remember correctly.. one of Glory's inferior and weak minions pushed the buffybot back, which should have required more strength than that, but it didn't. She then short-fused and stopped working. I highly doubt it would be that hard to knock off the buffy-bots head.

I don't understand how you could think that being brain-drained wouldn't affect Glory... it's basically like taking any previous brain sucking Glory had and then giving it to Tara. Which would seriously hinder her fighting capabilites.

And for the record, I'm not saying that Illyria wouldn't provide a good fight for Glory, it would be a close fight, but I know Glory would emerge victorious.

There is NO solid proof that Illyria is a god, all we have is her word on the matter. Everyone else before her has said she was a demon, one of the original. But still a demon.

And even if Illyria WAS a god, which she isn't, that would make her one of many. Then every single original demon, or old one, that came along with her would be a god too. Do you belive that there are that many gods in our universe? Because I don't. And if Illyria was a god.. wouldn't that make her immortal? Then why did she have to lie dormant for all of those years inside of that tomb to wait for her time to rule the world again? That just doesn't make sense to me. She's not immortal, she therfor not a god. God's don't die, and the old ones before her must be dead... so therefor she can't be a god.

and whooo Illyria killed two vamps. The first one, she snuck up behind and dusted him when he wasn't looking. The other, he made a jump in the air and using her slow motion ability she decapitated him. That slow motion wouldn't even work on Glory. As she has super speed. Glory had to fight a Slayer, one who if she wanted to, would have killer her from the start. But instead she played around with her, and never went for the kill because of the humanity Ben was giving her. Plus, Joss couldn't have just killed off Buffy and have Glory open the dimensions and end the world. That would be kinda anti-climactic, wouldn't it? Plus, glory is invulnerable, so she can throw all the swords and axes at her that sh wants, and it would get her no where.

Illyria doesn't kill Angel and the rest of them becuase she knows the world has changed, she doesn't know what new and powerfull things are in this world, and whilst with Angel, she has all the knowledge of this she would ever need at her finger-tips.

Pylea is classed as an unpleasant Demon Dimension yet i wouldn't say there was anything their Angel and co couldnt have beaten

but do you remember how Giles said unpleasant? The way he said it, he could have very well said "to say the least" right afterwords, I'm not entirely sure how to describe that but if you go back and watch that scene you will know what I mean.

Again that quote isnt Giles saying he knows for a fact

Wrong. All the information he received was all from quinten trevors, who knows what Glory is and everything about her. Which suggests that he knows that Glory's powers ARE severely limited on this plane.

Explain the whole Exxageration of Power....you have said this a few times, but have yet to truly prove how in Angel power is exaggerated yet in Buffy its 'normal'.

Well.. you see Xander and Anya(an ex-demon) fight a vampire and they can barely handel it themselves.. but then we see Gunn fighting vampires and slaying them left and right. So yes, the power aspect WAS exaggerated.

I would also like to re-state that the main reason Glory lost was because of that hammer. Which we know is powerfull, Spike couldn't even pick it up and when it was used on Buffy, it flung her across the room. Glory isn't a god in this dimension, she's something new and unique... not mortal.. not demon.. not god either...

It doesn't matter that Illyrias power affects time and space, Glory is still very fast and would still not be affected if she is actually using her super-speed.

he bottom line is, you think Illyria is more powerfull, I think Glory. If what I think is true, and that most of Glory's power is in her home dimension, which is what is pretty much said in the show, but not straight out in the open, then yes, Glory would kill Illyria withought a problem. Now if what you say is true and Glory is at her near full power now.. then Glory would still win. all Glory would have to do is use her super speed to beat down Illyria before she had a chance to hurt her.

Angel and Spike are pretty fast, too (granted, not as fast as Glory) but they're still affected just as bad as Wesley, a human, is.

but Angel and Spike aren't even that much faster than Wesley, Glory can move at pretty much the speed of light, which would definately have a greater affect.

 

[VisionGuy]

Well.. you see Xander and Anya(an ex-demon) fight a vampire and they can barely handel it themselves.. but then we see Gunn fighting vampires and slaying them left and right. So yes, the power aspect WAS exaggerated.

That's Anya and Xander. Xander started fighting evil at 17 and he's still not a fighter. He never really trained how to fight or anything. Gunn has been killing vampires since he was 12. Of course he can kick a vampire's ass. He's been doing it his whole life. And Anya, well Anya isn't really much of a fighter without her vengeance demon powers.

but Angel and Spike aren't even that much faster than Wesley, Glory can move at pretty much the speed of light, which would definately have a greater affect.

Where's all the proof about Glory being able to move at the speed of light? You're just saying that without stating the actual facts. What she used that power like once and you make an assumption. If she could move at the speed of light then she would have easily moved out of that trucks way. Because light is faster than a truck

It doesn't matter that Illyrias power affects time and space, Glory is still very fast and would still not be affected if she is actually using her super-speed.

Again, where is the proof that Illyria's power wouldn't affect Glory. You are making assumptions just like we are. We supposedly dont have proof about Illyria's God status which we do because we showed you the quotes. But you have no proof at all about any of this stuff you are claiming.

 

[PrincessZombie]

And even if Illyria WAS a god, which she isn't, that would make her one of many. Then every single original demon, or old one, that came along with her would be a god too. Do you belive that there are that many gods in our universe? Because I don't. And if Illyria was a god.. wouldn't that make her immortal? Then why did she have to lie dormant for all of those years inside of that tomb to wait for her time to rule the world again? That just doesn't make sense to me. She's not immortal, she therfor not a god. God's don't die, and the old ones before her must be dead... so therefor she can't be a god.

Okay, you can't say that Illyria isn't a god just because you think there aren't that many gods in our universe. BtVS isn't our universe anyways, it's fictional. Joss could make a bajillion gods if he wanted to. And immortality doesn't necessarily mean that you're up and awake all the time. The old ones didn't really die, they just rested, or took breaks or whatever. That's why they were in storage. And you still haven't given any proof that Illyria wasn't a god, though people have given you proof that she was.

but do you remember how Giles said unpleasant? The way he said it, he could have very well said "to say the least" right afterwords, I'm not entirely sure how to describe that but if you go back and watch that scene you will know what I mean.

Wrong. All the information he received was all from quinten trevors, who knows what Glory is and everything about her. Which suggests that he knows that Glory's powers ARE severely limited on this plane.

But Giles didn't say "to say the least," so you can't say that he could've of might've. How would Quentin Travers know everything about Glory? Yeah, he's the head of the council, but we've never had any proof that he knows much of anything. And if he did, he probably would have told Giles about it. Quentin Travers isn't all-knowing or anything.

Well.. you see Xander and Anya(an ex-demon) fight a vampire and they can barely handel it themselves.. but then we see Gunn fighting vampires and slaying them left and right. So yes, the power aspect WAS exaggerated.

Like VG said, Xander, though he's been asissting Buffy for years, doesn't actually train, or lead a gang of vampire killers for that matter. Anya, though she used to be a demon, has no demon powers, she's just a human. Gunn has been training and fighting for several years and like they say, practice makes perfect.

It doesn't matter that Illyrias power affects time and space, Glory is still very fast and would still not be affected if she is actually using her super-speed.

he bottom line is, you think Illyria is more powerfull, I think Glory. If what I think is true, and that most of Glory's power is in her home dimension, which is what is pretty much said in the show, but not straight out in the open, then yes, Glory would kill Illyria withought a problem. Now if what you say is true and Glory is at her near full power now.. then Glory would still win. all Glory would have to do is use her super speed to beat down Illyria before she had a chance to hurt her.

but Angel and Spike aren't even that much faster than Wesley, Glory can move at pretty much the speed of light, which would definately have a greater affect.

Super-speediness does not counter-affect time. Glory cannot affect time, or movie through it like Illyria can. So there is no way you can say that her speed would counteract the warping of time. And I don't think that Illyria or Glory is more powerful than the other. I wouldn't presume to know who would win in a fight. And it wasn't said that "most" of Glory's power was in her home dimension, just some of it, which could be any amount, neither of us could know for sure.

 

[Schillaci]

And for the record, I'm not saying that Illyria wouldn't provide a good fight for Glory, it would be a close fight, but I know Glory would emerge victorious.

Are "we" debating who would win, when they are at their most powerful on the shows? Because, no contest. Illyria would annihilate that skanky, cheap, whorish, fashion victim ex-god.

There is NO solid proof that Illyria is a god, all we have is her word on the matter. Everyone else before her has said she was a demon, one of the original. But still a demon.

Ye.. and what proof is there that Glory is a god? For all we know, "god" simply meant that she governed her world. Plus Gods don't have lop-sided asses. Just doesn't happen!

And even if Illyria WAS a god, which she isn't, that would make her one of many. Then every single original demon, or old one, that came along with her would be a god too. Do you belive that there are that many gods in our universe? Because I don't.

You do realise it's just a show, right? Glory isn't actually a being that exists in our world...

And if Illyria was a god.. wouldn't that make her immortal? Then why did she have to lie dormant for all of those years inside of that tomb to wait for her time to rule the world again? That just doesn't make sense to me. She's not immortal, she therfor not a god. God's don't die, and the old ones before her must be dead... so therefor she can't be a god.

She was sleepy from owning so many dimensions. Even gods need some sleep!

and whooo Illyria killed two vamps. The first one, she snuck up behind and dusted him when he wasn't looking. The other, he made a jump in the air and using her slow motion ability she decapitated him. That slow motion wouldn't even work on Glory. As she has super speed. Glory had to fight a Slayer, one who if she wanted to, would have killer her from the start. But instead she played around with her, and never went for the kill because of the humanity Ben was giving her. Plus, Joss couldn't have just killed off Buffy and have Glory open the dimensions and end the world. That would be kinda anti-climactic, wouldn't it? Plus, glory is invulnerable, so she can throw all the swords and axes at her that sh wants, and it would get her no where.

Dude, Illyria can hop about dimensions. She could just kick Glory's lop-sided ass to whatever dimension she wanted and leave her there. Glory couldn't even go home. I mean, seriously, no matter how drunk I get I can always find my way home.. Then again, my ass ain't lop-sided.

Illyria doesn't kill Angel and the rest of them becuase she knows the world has changed, she doesn't know what new and powerfull things are in this world, and whilst with Angel, she has all the knowledge of this she would ever need at her finger-tips.


but do you remember how Giles said unpleasant? The way he said it, he could have very well said "to say the least" right afterwords, I'm not entirely sure how to describe that but if you go back and watch that scene you will know what I mean.


Wrong. All the information he received was all from quinten trevors, who knows what Glory is and everything about her. Which suggests that he knows that Glory's powers ARE severely limited on this plane.

Quinten trevors?? Who is that guy...?

Well.. you see Xander and Anya(an ex-demon) fight a vampire and they can barely handel it themselves.. but then we see Gunn fighting vampires and slaying them left and right. So yes, the power aspect WAS exaggerated.

I would also like to re-state that the main reason Glory lost was because of that hammer. Which we know is powerfull, Spike couldn't even pick it up and when it was used on Buffy, it flung her across the room. Glory isn't a god in this dimension, she's something new and unique... not mortal.. not demon.. not god either...

Glory lost because Buffy kicked her lop-sided ass.

It doesn't matter that Illyrias power affects time and space, Glory is still very fast and would still not be affected if she is actually using her super-speed.

he bottom line is, you think Illyria is more powerfull, I think Glory. If what I think is true, and that most of Glory's power is in her home dimension, which is what is pretty much said in the show, but not straight out in the open, then yes, Glory would kill Illyria withought a problem. Now if what you say is true and Glory is at her near full power now.. then Glory would still win. all Glory would have to do is use her super speed to beat down Illyria before she had a chance to hurt her.

What the hell? Compared to Illyria, Glory is a snail.

but Angel and Spike aren't even that much faster than Wesley, Glory can move at pretty much the speed of light, which would definately have a greater affect.

Glory can move at the speed of light? News to me...