Did Angel Leave Buffy for legitimate reasons?

[Dora]

Why the Buffy hate ?
I think it comes down to the freak show......Why would you want Buffy being with a demon even a demon like Angel who loves her ?
He left because he love her, don't get me wrong, Angel was wrong to get involved with a young girl , in the first place
Angel love Buffy that's why he left, I think Joyce just confirmed what he already felt , that they were wrong , Buffy deserved better a chance , chance to have a real relationship , which she would have had after chosen ( ignoring the comics )
Angulus was always waiting to raise his ugly head again it did not have to be sex between them ?
Again Angel left because he loved Buffy wanted her to be able to go out into the light , to maybe have a family , his leaving gave her a chance of that , he was being totally selfless.....the complete opposite of Spike
Human sleeping with demon ....a freak show...... full stop

 

[thetopher]

Yes.
As far as I'm concerned, as of S12, its canon that Buffy can't have a fulfilling relationship with a vampire, souled or otherwise. It just doesn't work from what we were shown. Her life became static and she was stuck in a rut whilst her friends grew up and accomplished things.

So Angel made the right decision. She had her whole life ahead of her and Angel didn't want to get in the way of that or stop her experiencing any of it.
Even Buffy knew it was the right thing to do as she states in that very episode.
But then she forgot that wisdom later on (S7 and S10) until she didn't.

 

[FaithLehane16]

But then she forgot that wisdom later on (S7 and S10) until she didn't.

What do you mean by that?

 

[biconanya]

I guess there was a point in it not making sense.. that's her first love and literally no matter what situation when they are reunited there is some sort of tension around that, even at the finale she was shmacking lips with that guy. His excuse seems weak because it's not like he genuinely means it, I mean of course he wants Buffy to live the most fulfilling life she can but also he loves her more than anything. It's like when someone's s/o is going to college in another state after graduation, except for these two the situation is much, much more complex. Buffy has the weight of the world on her shoulders and Angel carries the weight of his past.

Teenage love always bites.. sometimes more literally than others

 

[Angel6]

I think his reasoning is selfless, caring and completely valid. Which is why I think Spuffy is a massive betrayal of that sacrifice.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think his reasoning is selfless, caring and completely valid. Which is why I think Spuffy is a massive betrayal of that sacrifice.

I disagree about Spuffy being the massive betrayal because there was no specific reason for Spuffy not to be together (even though it was a terrible plotline that took over the show and became Spike's sole storyline from Season 5 onwards, reducing him to Buffy's lap dog to the point there was a trope named after him "Badass decay", formally known as "Spikefication". It just shows how talented both JM and SMG are that they managed to keep their characters' popularity intact particularly after the mess of Season 6).

If any ship is the "massive betrayal of that sacrifice", it's Cangel. Angel left Buffy because they couldn't be together without the risk of Angelus looming over them constantly, yet for some reason Angel doesn't think that's going to be a problem with Cordelia even though the writers were trying to sell Cangel as this destined romance in a similar way to Bangel? It's the Cordelia side of things that doesn't make sense.

1. She knows about Angelus
2. She knows that Angel and Buffy loved each other deeply and the reason they can't be together is Angelus
3. She seems to forget about Angelus as does Angel.

The thing is, Angelus kind of becomes a marker of Angel's relationships, if Angelus doesn't come out to play at some point then Angel isn't ever truly happy in your relationship. Buffy gave Angel that moment of true happiness, so either Cordelia has to settle with being second best to Buffy or she chooses to willingly risk the threat of Angelus. Neither action makes sense for Cordelia.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think his reasoning is selfless, caring and completely valid. Which is why I think Spuffy is a massive betrayal of that sacrifice.

But Spuffy had nothing to do with why Angel left. In fact, Spuffy has nothing to do with Angel at all.

Angel left Buffy because they couldn't be together without the risk of Angelus looming over them constantly, yet for some reason Angel doesn't think that's going to be a problem with Cordelia

Because Cordy wasn't Angel's first love- Buffy was.

 

[telperion66]

Angel would definitely have stayed had Joss and David Greenwalt not decided to be bold enough to forge ahead and give him his own show. Thank God they did!

Having said that, the loss of Angel to BTVS was a huge blow. Angel was obviously the love of Buffy's life.

His loss was tangible for the rest of the show's tenure; when he did occasionally reappear it was truly a welcome sight.

Thus, the reasons given for his leaving are given out of necessity. The writers had to figure out a way to give him his own show in believable storyline terms to continue his rich narrative potential. Its not as if Angel would really have left the love of his life to go to LA - I believe that's how strong their love was. The words he uttered to Buffy upon telling her he wanted to leave were merely storyline mechanics.

Anyone that watches BTVS knows he would never truly leave Buffy.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Angel would definitely have stayed had Joss and David Greenwalt not decided to be bold enough to forge ahead and give him his own show. Thank God they did!

Whedon didn't want to do it. He wanted Angel to remain dead. The network and Greenwalt wanted Angel to have his own show so Whedon relented.

 

[telperion66]

Whedon didn't want to do it. He wanted Angel to remain dead. The network and Greenwalt wanted Angel to have his own show so Whedon relented.

Sorry. yeah, my dim recollections are incorrect then.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

@thetopher Well, he does get a cookie and credit for the later seasons when Greenwalt "left" but not credit for the good seasons.

 

[Btvs fan]

Whedon didn't want to do it. He wanted Angel to remain dead. The network and Greenwalt wanted Angel to have his own show so Whedon relented.

Yes and no. Greenwalts idea was a monster of the week /victim of the week show. It was really Tim Minear who made it about Angel himself and his journey. Joss was smart enough to go with it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Greenwalts idea was a monster of the week /victim of the week show.

Kinda like he did with Grimm. Where it started that way to get viewers used to the world and then expand it.
Kinda like JJ did with Fringe, for the same reason. You see that a lot with genre shows. Greenwalt wasn't on the show long enough to really say what his overarching idea was.

 

[Btvs fan]

Kinda like he did with Grimm. Where it started that way to get viewers used to the world and then expand it.
Kinda like JJ did with Fringe, for the same reason. You see that a lot with genre shows. Greenwalt wasn't on the show long enough to really say what his overarching idea was.

As you say, if it was his idea then he must had some idea of the show he wanted. That and he was on for 3 of the 5 years, so its not like he just worked a couple of weeks

 

[Skanky Vamp]

That and he was on for 3 of the 5 years,

But before the start of the third year he knew Whedon was taking over and his job was to move pieces in place how and where Joss wanted, so he could tell his story.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Because Cordy wasn't Angel's first love- Buffy was.

It's not about who is or isn't Angel's first love. Angel left Buffy because he wanted her to have a normal life without the threat of Angelus looming over the relationship. Regardless of who Angel's subsequent girlfriends are, the threat of Angelus still remains, the very reason Angel left Buffy in the first place.

Cordelia knows about Angelus so either she settles for being second best to Buffy or she willingly risks unleashing Angelus. Neither seem like a very Cordelia thing to do.

Whedon didn't want to do it. He wanted Angel to remain dead. The network and Greenwalt wanted Angel to have his own show so Whedon relented.

I thought Whedon decided to give Angel his own show when he saw DB act out the scene in IOHEFY where Angelus gets possessed by the ghost of the female teacher?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

It's not about who is or isn't Angel's first love.

Sure it is. It's kinda ridiculous to imply that everytime Angel has an orgasim is a moment of pure bliss for him. Cody wasn't Buffy (and they knew about the curse) it's as simple as that to me.

I thought Whedon decided to give Angel his own show when he saw DB act out the scene in IOHEFY where Angelus gets possessed by the ghost of the female teacher?

Nope. The studio wanted Angel to live, Whedon did not.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Sure it is. It's kinda ridiculous to imply that everytime Angel has an orgasim is a moment of pure bliss for him. Cody wasn't Buffy (and they knew about the curse) it's as simple as that to me.

It wasn't the orgasm/sex that did it otherwise Angel wouldn't be able to risk having a wank because it's the same principle. It was being with the woman that he loved that did it. Therefore Cordelia has to either accept that she's second best to Buffy and that Angel will never feel for her the way he felt about Buffy (which isn't something Cordy would do), or she willingly risks unleashing Angelus (something Cordy wouldn't do either).

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Cordelia has to either accept that she's second best to Buffy and that Angel will never feel for her the way he felt about Buffy

Because Buffy was his first love. And, arguably, that specific time was his first, from what I can recall at least.

 

[katmobile]

Sure it is. It's kinda ridiculous to imply that everytime Angel has an orgasim is a moment of pure bliss for him. Cody wasn't Buffy (and they knew about the curse) it's as simple as that to me.


Nope. The studio wanted Angel to live, Whedon did not.

Sorry citation needed

I don't necessarily think that Cordy is lesser just because she's subsequent. Someone has argued Angel will probably never be able to experience perfect happiness again because he knows what will happen if he does the knowledge alone is enough for him never to be free of some sort of unhappiness in the background. It took a magical illusion to unleash him a second time.