Did Angel the series have a negative effect on Btvs?

[prophecygrrl]

From what I've heard, David Greenwalt and Tim Minear did a lot of work on Angel, and Joss was still able to focus on Buffy. Then Firefly came along, and he started focusing on that more and leaving more of the direction of BtVS Season 6 to Marti Noxon. I don't think Angel hurt the quality of Buffy very much, but then again I don't think the later seasons decreased in quality at all lol. They definitely went a different direction though, and you can start to see how different writers contribute different things. More so than in Seasons 1 and 2, at least.

 

[TimeParadox]

I personally liked the first three much better than the last three. I really liked 4 as well though. 5, 6, and 7 were pretty good but not my favorites.

Although thinking about it, I did like a lot of season 5. The whole Dawn thing wasn't my favorite since she was a bit obnoxious at the time, but glory was great, and "the gift" was really great

I was not a fan of S6.

Season 7 had buffy power tripping just a bit, and all the potentials were a bit much, but Chosen was amazing

 

[Goby]

I completely agree with both of these statements. David Greenwalt did an excellent job with the story of Angel, and Joss adored Firefly. I don't get that same kind of feeling from him about Dollhouse for example.



I think ATS season 5 is one of those things that can go either way: I see that some people hate it, others love it. Either way, there is a definite different feel than the 1st 4 seasons.

Agree! (But I can't give you any more rep for a while). I'm one of those who absolutely loves Season 5 Angel.

 

[white avenger]

Getting that big brooding jerk out of Sunnydale and away from Spike's girl was the best decision that Joss could have made, even if it did mean giving the jerk his own series.

(I just had to say that, or I was gonna bust.)

Seriously, though, I agree, Joss spread himself entirely too thin trying to run 3 separate series at one time, and the people who he chose to help him, talented as they might have been, simply didn't share Joss' vision of how the Buffyverse should operate. It MIGHT have been a little easier if both shows had remained on the same network, but that's just pure speculation on my part. On the whole, though, considering the load that he was carrying, I think that Joss did an amazing job overseeing the two shows, with a year of "Firefly" thrown in just to keep him from getting bored.

It sorta makes me wonder, and I wouldn't be too surprised if Joss sometimes has had the same thought, if he had been able to concentrate fully on "Firefly" without having to share his time with the other two shows, would the chance of a second or third season have been better. Too bad that we'll never know.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I don't think Buffy got worse in later seasons, season 6 is my favorite, but Joss screwed up in season 7, because that season sucked (IMO), it was awful and didn't focus on any of the things that I felt made the show great. I loved Angel, it successfully became independent and neither show needed the other to give us great stories.

I agree with people that said BtVS suffered without Greenwalt. If Greenwalt was around maybe he would have talked some sense into Joss and told him Dawn is an awful character...

 

[LadyLavinia]

I think Sarah probably had reason to be concerned, but I don't think the show actually suffered. The last three seasons are my favorites, and by the time the first one of those (5) rolled around, Angel was starting season 2. So no, I don't think there as a decline in Buffy's quality.

I agree. My favorite BUFFY seasons tend to be those of post-Season 3. I especially enjoyed Season 7 because it focused upon a concept that most people dislike facing or acknowledging.

 

[Summerlilly]

Hmmm....well I never watched any of the shows as they aired so I've never paid attention to exactly when Joss wasn't there on Buffy. All I can say is even if the quality went down a tad without him around....I wouldn't want Angel or Firefly to have not been made! 🙂

 

[Zeppo]

Buffy lost something after graduating, as the vehicle the story drove in was now over with. I prefer early Buffy to later; I truly feel that is the heart of the show and that the later half of season 2 was the series' staple. The cast dymanic was so strong/great and was broken apart so ... something was missing there for the worst but I honestly think it has a lot more to do with leaving high school. I do enjoy Angel the series but I did miss him and Cordelia on Buffy.

 

[brinkster130]

I can see why Sarah would be concerned about Joss getting involved in another show and I do think that BTVS did suffer some. It was still a great show, but I don't think it ended as strongly as it could have.

Buffy lost something after graduating, as the vehicle the story drove in was now over with. I prefer early Buffy to later; I truly feel that is the heart of the show and that the later half of season 2 was the series' staple. The cast dymanic was so strong/great and was broken apart so ... something was missing there for the worst but I honestly think it has a lot more to do with leaving high school. I do enjoy Angel the series but I did miss him and Cordelia on Buffy.

I completely agree about the earlier seasons. I think the transition from high school to adult life tends to be a very difficult phase for shows to make it through; IMO it's a transition that becomes the week point of most shows that attempt it.

 

[PassionBecoming]

I don't know about the quality of the shows declining, but I do think that the last three seasons of Buffy seemed much more garbled plot-wise - too much being crammed in and not explained. Well, at least seasons 5 and 7. I am only partway through S2 of AtS, so can't speak to that - I am enjoying it so far.

I can't imagine a writer working on three shows and NOT have his attention split too many ways and having it suffer, but as it has been said, there were other great writers working on the shows, too.

 

[kndizzle]

Joss has said multiple times that The Gift was meant to be the end of Buffy. That being said, yes, his time being split between the two was taxing on both shows. The whole spirit of Buffy kind of died for me after that. SMG is totally right. Season 4 was crap IMO, the flow was off because of the loss of both David and Joss one that was never fully recovered if you ask me. Her concerns were valid, and ultimately correct. There were moments of awesome all around, but overall it deteriorated.

 

[Hero]

I don't think it's quality based, but my favorite seasons are the first three. once angel left, seasons 4 and 6 especially, the show kind of lost...."something."

 

[kndizzle]

I don't think it's quality based, but my favorite seasons are the first three. once angel left, seasons 4 and 6 especially, the show kind of lost...."something."

I couldn't agree more. I think after 3 seasons of that core cast, it was hard to identify with a show that was missing parts of it. And its not jut the absence of Angel. The combined loss of Cordelia, Angel, and even Oz took away part of that core that could never be refilled. Its interesting though, I liked season 5. It was the logical place for the story to go, character and plot wise. Why it deteriorates in season 6+7 I really can't say.