Did Angelus Hurt Buffy or Giles More?

[Valjavertjinn]

In Season Two, Angelus spent a lot of time stalking and threatening Buffy. However, when he took actual action, the effects generally damaged Giles more than Buffy. Giles lost Jenny, and he was also tortured, both mentally and physically, for hours on end.
Though Buffy had to endure the responsibility for these events, they didn't actually happen to her. And the damages to Giles lasted for a very long time.
All in all, he seems to have been hurt the most.

 

[Robb Stark]

Tough call. I'm going to say Buffy, but I get the reasons for why some may say Giles.

I think that Buffy felt a tremendous amount of responsibility for whatever Angelus did. Now, that's unwarranted, there's no way she could have ever known what was going to happen with him, but every horrible act he committed, every person he killed, everything he did to Giles, I think she felt like it was partly her fault. Angelus was on the war path for months. That must have taken a huge toll.

Plus, when Angel was turned, they didn't think they were ever going to get him back. So while Giles lost the love of his life, so did Buffy, only worse. Obviously re-watching now knowing that Angel eventually comes back, we don't really think about that, but Buffy thought that Angel was gone forever. She lost the only person she was ever really complete with, and not only that, but she had to kill him at the end right when he was really himself again.

Giles could hate Angelus for all the things he did, Buffy couldn't, not really. A lot of times, hate and anger are more comforting than grief and despair. Combine all of that with the fact that she was only 17, and I think that the whole Angelus ordeal was harder on Buffy.

 

[Jodast]

I think Giles was put through the ringer a tiny tiny bit more than Buffy Don't get me wrong I am not saying Buffy didn't suffer, but not only did Giles lose Jenny and get tortured, he had to live with the knowledge that this was all done primarily to mentally torture Buffy, who he was responsible for, and he was totally powerless to do anything about it.

At least Buffy, the Slayer, has a way to solve her problems; super-powered violence. She waited a little too long until she was mentally tough enough and the dire situation called for urgent action, but she got there in the end. A healthy dose of ass-kickery, running through your loved one with a sword and shoving him into a hell dimension is rather cathartic, one would imagine 😀 Whilst poor old Giles couldn't really do much about anything to make himself feel better about things. Bless him.

 

[Xin Rong]

I'm going with Giles, angelus took away the love of his life, and tortured him. All he did to buffy was break her teenage heart, and make her feel guilty, which doesn;t compare to the pain Giles has to live with.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Out of the gang, Jenny's the one who ended up in the ground, personally I think she was hurt the most. Her life ended. 🙁

Between Giles and Buffy, probably Buffy. He knew how to get at her emotionally and he mentally tortured her for months. Not even Giles was personally hunted by Angelus in that way.

 

[Taake]

Comparing hurt is always tricky because it's hard to say who suffered the most. But in the end, between Buffy and Giles, I would probably go with Giles.

I don't meant to diminish the fact that Giles lost someone that he loved and in a horrible way, but Buffy was as mentioned tortured by Angelus personally for months, not only with threats etc but she felt personally responsible* for every life Angelus took and that included Jenny of course. I don't think the guilt of that on her shoulders are an easy thing to dismiss, especially not when seeing Giles' grief which would only have further burdened her own guilt. So for me Buffy, due to Angelus and who he was but also because she felt responsible for how he became what he was and all that he did to those around her.



*whether or not Buffy should or shouldn't feel responsible is a discussion best left for another thread I believe

 

[funsmiley]

hmmmmmm tough question. im gonna go with buffy.

yes giles lost jenny and was mentally and physically tortured, but all that was to get at buffy. In a way, i feel that buffy got the brunt of it because it was her loved ones, the people that loved her were being hurt.

Angelus knew that buffys loved ones were the most important things to her and he wanted to rip that world apart to torture her.

Buffy has to have the what ifs on her shoulder, what if she hadn't slept with angel which made him lose his soul? (though of course she didn't know that was going to happen.) what if, she had killed him before he had killed jenny. so may what if's. and now she has to live with that.

 

[white avenger]

Without a doubt in my mind, Angelus hurt Giles far more than he ever did Buffy, and for a much longer time. In a very real sense, both Slayer and Watcher lost the great loves of their lives, Angel and Jenny, respectively, but Buffy got Angel back. Jenny never returned. Also, Buffy was able to separate Angel and Angelus, literally seeing them as two different people. I don't think that Giles ever managed to totally make that distinction, as was illustrated by his never again totally trusting Angel the way that he had before.

So, both physically, when Angelus tortured Giles, and psychologically for the rest of Giles' life, I truly believe that he never looked at Angel again without remembering seeing Jenny lying dead in his bed, and probably imagining seeing Buffy the same way. Buffy endured her pain at the moment, put it behind her, and, if not totally forgot about it, at least moved past it and got on with whatever degree of normalcy her life would allow. Giles, never did, totally, so, in a very real sense, Angelus never quit hurting Giles.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

He forced her to send someone she loved to Hell. Kind of think that beats Giles' pain, even without the other pain she went through. But it's not like it's easy to messure. Specially since we have to take their specific personalities and experience withprevious pain and life experiences into account.

 

[AmelRIOT]

I would said Giles, I usually say Buffy but re-watching the series has showed me how Giles was in so much pain, he lost the one thing he loved and the only other adult who knows about the scooby gang, slayer and demons etc, sometimes Giles needs adults around him and Jenny was that person she helped Giles become the more fun Giles is today, Angelus just didn't kill Jenny he tortured Giles with the roses and everything but it wasn't just about Jenny with Giles it was Buffy and the others the scooby gang was like his children and Angelus was attacking them and making their life hell, he was a parent looking out for his kids and they were just teenagers they didn't need to go through this, Giles couldn't do anything to protect them especially Buffy as she is so weak loosing Angel.

Buffy went through a lot her friends were going through the pain and anger, she lost a friend and she lost the love of her life which has been taken of this monster and then she had kill Angel when he came back who had no idea what his monster side did, she had those dreams of Angel being mad at her for what she did and she felt she let her friends down for sleeping with Angel but Angel finally came back and they sort things out but Giles didn't get Jenny back he had no way bringing her back so this is my opinon why Giles got hurt most.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

I'm also going with Giles for the reasons stated 🙂

 

[Taake]

Buffy endured her pain at the moment, put it behind her, and, if not totally forgot about it

Wow that's really harsh.

Giles, never did, totally, so, in a very real sense, Angelus never quit hurting Giles.

I'm curious now, why do you think this? I think, just as much as Buffy did, we saw Giles moving on from this and though he and Jenny had budding relationship there's nothing on the show that seems to indicate that she was any kind of "one true love" or any such thing to him. He moved on, he had other relationships, other entanglements and seemed to function perfectly well around Angel when he needed to. Yes, he distrusted him in "Amends" but otherwise I don't think we see him particularly grief stricken or distrustful around Angel at all*

*(and I'm not counting Angel s5 because frankly that can all be summed up to plot convenience that they didn't get help from Giles and further more we never heard his side of the conversation and can't judge only from Angel's reaction since his feelings were clearly already stirred)

 

[white avenger]

Wow that's really harsh.




I'm curious now, why do you think this?

*(and I'm not counting Angel s5 because frankly that can all be summed up to plot convenience that they didn't get help from Giles and further more we never heard his side of the conversation and can't judge only from Angel's reaction since his feelings were clearly already stirred)

What's harsh about Buffy dealing with what happened and working past it? I didn't mean to imply that she forgot or ignored what had happened in Season 2, merely that she was both more able and willing to forgive Angel for what happened.

And as far as Giles never truly forgiving or trusting Angel again, for me at least, this is quite obvious. Up until Angelus returned, I really believe that Giles had pretty much stopped thinking of Angel as a monster and saw him as more or less a hero with weird dietary requirements and an extreme aversion to sunlight. There were vampires, and they were monsters. Then there was Angel, and he was a hero. (A bit of an exaggeration, but I think that you see my point) Then suddenly, and under very tragic circumstances, it was reaffirmed that the only thing that separated hero Angel from monster Angelus was a soul that was not as permanent a thing as they had all come to believe. Giles was like the man who had been bitten by the beloved family pet. He never again had the same level of trust in Angel that he previously had, and the fear of Buffy some day ending up like Jenny Calendar, or worse, always haunted him after that.

And we can't disregard Angel's Season 5, nor the results of Season 8, simply because they do, in addition to filling the role of plot convenience, reaffirm Giles' ongoing distrust of Angel. Likewise, we can't disregard Giles' continued distrust of Spike in Season 7, (I HAVE to bring Spike into this to make my point, not to try and start another Bangel/Spuffy debate) even after he found out about his having a soul, because that, also, serves to illustrate the same thing in Giles' mind. Vampires may have souls, and they may, at the moment, be fighting on the side of good, but the fact remains that vampires are always going to be classified as monsters, and monsters can never be trusted completely. Angelus taught Giles that, and he never forgot it. When Giles told Buffy in Season7 that he "wanted so much more" for her, he wasn't just referring to Spike. He wanted "more" for Buffy that a life with a potential monster. ANY potential monster.

 

[Valjavertjinn]

I feel like the damage done to Giles lasted the longest. Jenny was killed, quickly ending what could have been a long-lasting love. And the scars, both psychological and physical, never went away.
Also, he made Giles get new glasses that lasted the rest of the show! 😉

 

[BlessedLunatic]

I think Buffy suffered a tremendous amount of guilt over all that happened, even though she had no way of knowing that one night of passion would cause Angel to lose his soul. She had to endure watching her friends suffer and feeling responsible for that. She had to fight the monster wearing her lover's face. She ultimately had to kill him, even knowing at the last minute that he was "back" again.

But, as was mentioned, Angel came back. Things sort of reset for her. No, their relationship couldn't really go on, and he ended up leaving for that reason, but he was back, and he had his soul back, and she knew he was out there somewhere. Yes, she still carried guilt, but she moved on.

Giles suffered physical and mental torture, lost the woman who he was just starting to really love and who he was just ready to move forward with in their relationship, AND had to deal with Angel coming back and seeing him and Buffy rekindle their relationship a little bit. In his head I'm sure he knew it wasn't her fault, but that had to feel like a slap in the face to him. I give him major points for being so supportive to Buffy (he was going to buy her ice cream because her vampire boyfriend who had killed his girlfriend had stood her up for the prom, for goodness sake! Ice cream! Season 3 Giles is such a dad, and I love it, but I'm digressing something awful now 🙂 ).

Giles also moved on, but I agree that he was probably always a bit distrustful of Angel. His mental torture might have also made him distrustful of his memory, and that's got to be a difficult thing to live with. I think a lot of the time Giles put on a brave face for the "kids," but inside he was probably not as okay as he led them all to believe. There were hints to that, with the drinking - hints that when things got rough or difficult he turned to the bottle - and that he usually kept it from them. I think that a lot of the time he was really just not okay at all.

So, although they both suffered quite a lot, I think the lasting effects were probably a little worse for Giles.

 

[Nix]

I know Buffy suffered a lot at his hands but I think more so Giles. He lost and suffered seeing Jenny and in the most horrid way. 🙁

 

[Sweet J]

Also, he made Giles get new glasses that lasted the rest of the show! 😉

Holy monkey bladders! I never really noticed this until now!

Angelus hurt Giles and the Gypsy people the most, what with killing Jenny & her uncle.

 

[BuffyElevated]

It's really hard for me to say who Angelus hurt the most, because he hurt Buffy and Giles both in very different ways. I think Angelus put Buffy through a lot but Giles not only experienced Angelus' torment as it was directed at him, but he also had to stress over how it was effecting Buffy as well. I think maybe Giles may have been hurt worse.

 

[TaraSpike]

I think Giles suffered in a more direct way, with the torture, Jenny's death and finding her body. Buffy's suffering was less caused by actions of Angelus, but rather was more due to Angel I'd say, and the doomed circumstances of their relationship. The guilt she felt for having been the cause of Angel's soul loss (even though it was far from her fault) was the main force of her pain at that time, I think, and knowing she'd have to kill Angel in the end. So...I don't really know who suffered more, but both definitely felt the hurt.

 

[Ripper666]

Buffy. In the end, Angel had to leave her because of Angelus. He took Buffy's "love of life" away! She never really got over this tragedy. Not even in season 7 where you can see this very well when she kissed him.