Did Buffy Love Spike?

[Kean]

at the end of season 6 she refused to get back with Spike because she could never love him with out a soul, next thing he is trying to rape her and then he is off to make himself more Angel-like...thats one of the final eps of season 6 and she DOESN'T love him then .. the next few eps are dedicated to Willow, Spike isn't even on the radar...thats why I will never believe she loved him in season 6

 

[Tranquillity]

I always read the Spike/Buffy relationship in season six as being like this:

It startes out with him loving her and her feeling drawn to him because he is the only one who can understand what she has been through and he wasn't involved in the spell and he lives in the 'dark' which she fnds oddly comforting (episode 1 - 5)

Then, as Buffy finds it increasingly difficult to engage with life she strives to find something to make her 'feel' this results in a couple of kissage incidents (episodes 6 & 7)

And kissing Spike is good - she forgets about her troubles and gets lost in a sea of sensation (that boy must really kiss well!) but she feels bad about it afterwards, she knows its wrong - she is the slayer and he is a souless vampire and he is the only thing that is tieing her to this world. And it's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!! But then she finds he can hit her without the chip activating and one thing leads to another and they go 'all the way' and she's mortified and ashamed and it's wrong, wrong wrong! - he is a vampire and she is the slayer.... But it was good and she fights temptation to go back for more (ie: sitting in her bed surrounded by garlic) (episodes 9 & 10)

Then she goes invisible and what fun! she is free of herself and responsability and she goes to see Spike and one thing leads to another... and then she discovers that she's going turn into tapiocca pudding if she stays invisible and she discovers that she doesn't want to die and so she does what she needs to do to stay tied to this world and one of those things includes Spike (episodes 11 & 12)

Dead Things opens with Spike and Buffy having a conversation. this crazy relationship is starting to look halfway normal. And she likes him sometimes and she trusts him - regardless of what she says to his face (she put the handcuffs on afterall) and its getting too dangerous. Her feelings for him are getting identifiable and they are getting too close to the L word. He calls her 'my girl' and she snaps - how can she be his girl - she doesn't want to love this 'thing' and she beats him to a bloody pulp. You always hurt the one you love - which she acknowledges at the end of the episode. In Older and Far Away Spike comes to her Birthday and its a bit awkward but she does say something along the lines of 'i was crazy to think you could hang out with my friends!' showing that she has been thinking, entertaining the possibility of maybe a proper relationship with ... (ep 13 & 14)

Then Reilly comes back - and he's larger than life and too good to be true and she's reminded who she is - she's the slayer, the Vampire Slayer and she can't love Spike not because she doesn't love him (i think she is in love with him by this stage, just my opinion) but she can't love him because he is a souless vampire and she is the slayer and it's wrong, wrong, wrong wrong! It is simply not an option. So she breaks up with him and calls him William. She is kind and respectful as she does it. (Ep 15)

So they've broken up. He goes to Xander and Anya's wedding with a skank to make her jealous and succeeds in his objective (that scene at the wedding between B & S, there's a lot of love there). He leaves and doesn't see the trainwreck that the wedding becomes. He runs into Buffy in the cemetary the next day and asks if she cried (you know how we girls are supposed to cry at weddings), and Buffy thinks he means did she cry because he had another bird at the wedding (go on, watch how SMG plays it. She looks sideways, like she's been caught out - it's small but it's there). You'd hardly cry over the fact you wearn't getting any special lovin' anymore (more likely get angry and frustrated) so for me, it suggests that Buffy feels love for Spike. Then in Entropy she's very unhappy about the Spike/Anya sex and says acidly that it didn't take him long to move on. These are not the actions of one who doesn't care. (ep 16, 17 & 18)

In Seeing Red Spike does the unthinkable. He breaks his own vow that he 'doesn't hurt Buffy' and both of them are disgusted, shocked and angered by his actions. I think she falls out of love with him then and there. And Rightly so. But she doesn't completely write him off. She still takes Dawn to his place once Willow starts her rampage and when she discovers that Spike has left town she can't help but ask when is he coming back (ep 19 - 22). This small crack in the door allows for them to reconcile in season 7, which is really what its all about.

 

[white avenger]

I always read the Spike/Buffy relationship in season six as being like this:

It startes out with him loving her and her feeling drawn to him because he is the only one who can understand what she has been through and he wasn't involved in the spell and he lives in the 'dark' which she fnds oddly comforting (episode 1 - 5)

Then, as Buffy finds it increasingly difficult to engage with life she strives to find something to make her 'feel' this results in a couple of kissage incidents (episodes 6 & 7)

And kissing Spike is good - she forgets about her troubles and gets lost in a sea of sensation (that boy must really kiss well!) but she feels bad about it afterwards, she knows its wrong - she is the slayer and he is a souless vampire and he is the only thing that is tieing her to this world. And it's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!! But then she finds he can hit her without the chip activating and one thing leads to another and they go 'all the way' and she's mortified and ashamed and it's wrong, wrong wrong! - he is a vampire and she is the slayer.... But it was good and she fights temptation to go back for more (ie: sitting in her bed surrounded by garlic) (episodes 9 & 10)

Then she goes invisible and what fun! she is free of herself and responsability and she goes to see Spike and one thing leads to another... and then she discovers that she's going turn into tapiocca pudding if she stays invisible and she discovers that she doesn't want to die and so she does what she needs to do to stay tied to this world and one of those things includes Spike (episodes 11 & 12)

Dead Things opens with Spike and Buffy having a conversation. this crazy relationship is starting to look halfway normal. And she likes him sometimes and she trusts him - regardless of what she says to his face (she put the handcuffs on afterall) and its getting too dangerous. Her feelings for him are getting identifiable and they are getting too close to the L word. He calls her 'my girl' and she snaps - how can she be his girl - she doesn't want to love this 'thing' and she beats him to a bloody pulp. You always hurt the one you love - which she acknowledges at the end of the episode. In Older and Far Away Spike comes to her Birthday and its a bit awkward but she does say something along the lines of 'i was crazy to think you could hang out with my friends!' showing that she has been thinking, entertaining the possibility of maybe a proper relationship with ... (ep 13 & 14)

Then Reilly comes back - and he's larger than life and too good to be true and she's reminded who she is - she's the slayer, the Vampire Slayer and she can't love Spike not because she doesn't love him (i think she is in love with him by this stage, just my opinion) but she can't love him because he is a souless vampire and she is the slayer and it's wrong, wrong, wrong wrong! It is simply not an option. So she breaks up with him and calls him William. She is kind and respectful as she does it. (Ep 15)

So they've broken up. He goes to Xander and Anya's wedding with a skank to make her jealous and succeeds in his objective (that scene at the wedding between B & S, there's a lot of love there). He leaves and doesn't see the trainwreck that the wedding becomes. He runs into Buffy in the cemetary the next day and asks if she cried (you know how we girls are supposed to cry at weddings), and Buffy thinks he means did she cry because he had another bird at the wedding (go on, watch how SMG plays it. She looks sideways, like she's been caught out - it's small but it's there). You'd hardly cry over the fact you wearn't getting any special lovin' anymore (more likely get angry and frustrated) so for me, it suggests that Buffy feels love for Spike. Then in Entropy she's very unhappy about the Spike/Anya sex and says acidly that it didn't take him long to move on. These are not the actions of one who doesn't care. (ep 16, 17 & 18)

In Seeing Red Spike does the unthinkable. He breaks his own vow that he 'doesn't hurt Buffy' and both of them are disgusted, shocked and angered by his actions. I think she falls out of love with him then and there. And Rightly so. But she doesn't completely write him off. She still takes Dawn to his place once Willow starts her rampage and when she discovers that Spike has left town she can't help but ask when is he coming back (ep 19 - 22). This small crack in the door allows for them to reconcile in season 7, which is really what its all about.

Excellently written and very well thought out! I agree completely except for one small thing: when Buffy is invisible and goes to Spike's crypt, "one thing" doesn't, "lead to another." Buffy goes there for the express purpose of tearing his clothes off and having her wicked way with him (I've always wanted to use that phrase!) and she does exactly that. Exactly the same thing that he does to her in "Seeing Red," except that, unlike him, at that moment, she says, "No," which he doesn't immediately notice. Once he does, he stops, but of course it's too late by then.

 

[palabravampiress]

Excellently written and very well thought out! I agree completely except for one small thing: when Buffy is invisible and goes to Spike's crypt, "one thing" doesn't, "lead to another." Buffy goes there for the express purpose of tearing his clothes off and having her wicked way with him (I've always wanted to use that phrase!) and she does exactly that. Exactly the same thing that he does to her in "Seeing Red," except that, unlike him, at that moment, she says, "No," which he doesn't immediately notice. Once he does, he stops, but of course it's too late by then.

Wait, I'm confused. I'm not quibbling with the whole he tells her no and kicks her out thing. Cuz, he does.

But I am quibbling with the "having her wicked way with him" part. I mean, she doesn't. He kicks her out. He says no.

 

[white avenger]

Wait, I'm confused. I'm not quibbling with the whole he tells her no and kicks her out thing. Cuz, he does.

But I am quibbling with the "having her wicked way with him" part. I mean, she doesn't. He kicks her out. He says no.

Look back at the last scene in the crypt after Xander leaves. Spike tells Buffy to get dressed if she can find her clothes and shove off because if he can't have all of her, he doesn't want any of her. Fine up to that point. Then he looks down and says, "Now, that's cheating!"

Maybe it's just my dirty male mind, but i somehow got the impression that she was somehow convincing him that he didn't really want her to leave at that exact moment.

 

[Lou]

I'm voting for she DID love Spike.
I think she did NOT love herself for the bulk of their relationship...which was the issue. She felt like she was "behind" in getting back up to snuff after coming back. Like she couldn't make things right with Dawn and her Mom was still gone and Giles was leaving and her friends were falling apart and she saw something in Spike. And as WE know, that was something real. He DID love her. He DID support her. He DID understand her. He DID want to help her. He tried SO HARD to get her back on her feet.
And she never let herself see it or how much she really loved that part of him because she wanted to see everything in black and white. Spike had no soul which meant in her head that he was bad. Different from Angel and undeserving. Which meant if she was with him then in her head, she was bad. And she HATED that with a passion. (A passion that made quite a mess at times:lmao🙂

I think it took the bulk of season 7 before she started to see things as NOT so black and white. She could be the Chosen one, mess up, be wrong and still be "good". All the mess with the First and the slayers kicking her out did a bunch to have her wake up and grow up. And I don't think it was until that night when Spike found her and gave her the "talk" that she started to realize what she had been trying so hard to NOT see.

I think she always did love him, but really REALLY didn't want to. Which always seems so funny to me, especially in season 6. There's Xander about to marry a demon. There's Willow...happy...and it's not like it didn't take anything for her to even decide to date Tara. It's not like her group isn't a bit "giving" with dating who you want to date and accepting them. But, NOOOO.

I just don't think she REALLY realized that what she felt was love until the last few episodes of the series. And by the time she says it at the end...I do believe her. Heck, she grew up SO MUCH in those last few episodes...I was honestly proud. And since she's never been my favorite, that's saying a lot.

 

[Kimz]

I think she did in the end...think she might of realised it throughout series 7....i definitly think she meant it when she told him in the last ep.

Also theres little things throughout that said she did love him...

like when she is about to go out with robin wood, and willow says ''its good your moving on''
and buffy replies with ''why does everyone in this house still think im in love with spike''

lol - she said it 😉

ooh and in angel when spike & angel go to see buffy and shes dating the immortal and andrew tells them...
'' Buffy still loves you both very much, but shes moved on''


so i think she did lol - that was a long way of sayin yes wasnt it lol
ill shut up now haha!
x

 

[Jules]

I originally put yes for this answer but I've just found this interview with James and he comments that Buffy did not actually love him:

Talking to more than 800 spellbound fans at a Moonlight Rising "Buffy" convention over the weekend, Marsters offered his take on the series finale, stating unequivocally that Spike died knowing Buffy never loved him, but deeply appreciative of the fact she said she did.

"It's true," Marsters insisted. "It's the truth and he shows his manhood by saying so. Yeah. I thought that what the final episode did very well was admit that Buffy really is in love with Angel. That the sexual relationship she had with Spike was unhealthy. That it was unwise.

"It was fun to watch, but it wasn't good for Buffy and that Buffy was discovering a level of respect newly for Spike that she hadn't felt before and as a friend, she knew he loved her and she wanted to give him something because he's about to die and he shows the strength to say: 'Well, no. That's very kind of you to say, but that's not true' and I'm comfortable with that. I don't need to be Buffy's one. I think that would have been really strange. Thematically, it would have been really difficult. Spike was evil. They never really played Spike as the boyfriend you ever really want to have... The truth is, if a guy is a jerk to the rest of the world, he's going to be a jerk to his girl or his lady or his woman. Nice guys rule!"

Link

 

[Kean]

Well that was unexpected! Now I'm torn on the topic again!. Thanks for the link Jules😀

 

[palabravampiress]

I'm always wary of actors' opinions on stuff like this. Maybe it's because I'm a writer, but if I'm going to go for any behind-the-scenes opinion, it's the writer's opinion. Actors don't know the whole story. They know what's in the script up to a certain point. Writers are the ones who give the characters backstories and futures and emotions and motivations that may or may not make it into the script. Writers are the gods or powers-that-be. They're the ones in the know. Gosh, I'm such a writer snob!

Anyway, of course JM doesn't think Buffy loved Spike. Spike doesn't think Buffy loved him. But this isn't about Spike's opinion. This is about Buffy's opinion. In Buffy's opinion, she did. She told Willow in an unguarded moment. She told Spike. It even appears as if she told Andrew. Her later actions indicate love, too.

 

[white avenger]

I'm always wary of actors' opinions on stuff like this. Maybe it's because I'm a writer, but if I'm going to go for any behind-the-scenes opinion, it's the writer's opinion. Actors don't know the whole story. They know what's in the script up to a certain point. Writers are the ones who give the characters backstories and futures and emotions and motivations that may or may not make it into the script. Writers are the gods or powers-that-be. They're the ones in the know. Gosh, I'm such a writer snob!

Anyway, of course JM doesn't think Buffy loved Spike. Spike doesn't think Buffy loved him. But this isn't about Spike's opinion. This is about Buffy's opinion. In Buffy's opinion, she did. She told Willow in an unguarded moment. She told Spike. It even appears as if she told Andrew. Her later actions indicate love, too.

I agree. Joss said in an interview that he told Sarah and James to play that scene "as though they loved each other." I respect his interpretation of their feelings one for the other more than the actors'. (And, Miss K, before you bring out that "love of her life" thing, might I remind you that by that time, Buffy was on her third life. Angel might have gotten the first two, but he was never there for her in the third one, when she needed someone the most. Spike was.)

 

[Vicariously]

I think Buffy's heart belongs with Angel. I voted no because I dont think she was "in love with him" however, I do think she had love in her heart for him, if that makes sense. Just as she had love for Riley. In all reality Riley knew that he wasn't "the one" and Spike knew it to.

 

[palabravampiress]

white avenger agrees: A less subtle man than myself might point out that, while her heart might belong to Angel, all the rest of her anatomy craves Spike. But I'm too much of a gentleman to say a thing like that.

This made me laugh out loud, WA!

Also, I tend to agree. I, for one don't think I could have fallen in love with the man who eventually became my husband if we hadn't had a rather steamy relationship first. For some people, the physical stuff is a lot easier than the emotional side of things. I very much see that in Buffy, especially considering her abandonment issues. I'm not saying that for Buffy, sex = love. I'm just saying that, with Buffy, I don't think we can ignore the sex part of the equation when it comes to analyzing her feelings. Sex may not be important to everyone on Buffy Boards, but I think it is important to Buffy. And Spike's no slouch in the sack. I'll give him that. That's one area in which there's no question in my mind that he's got Angel beat.

 

[white avenger]

This made me laugh out loud, WA!

Also, I tend to agree. I, for one don't think I could have fallen in love with the man who eventually became my husband if we hadn't had a rather steamy relationship first. For some people, the physical stuff is a lot easier than the emotional side of things. I very much see that in Buffy, especially considering her abandonment issues. I'm not saying that for Buffy, sex = love. I'm just saying that, with Buffy, I don't think we can ignore the sex part of the equation when it comes to analyzing her feelings. Sex may not be important to everyone on Buffy Boards, but I think it is important to Buffy. And Spike's no slouch in the sack. I'll give him that. That's one area in which there's no question in my mind that he's got Angel beat.

I think that I can safely say that, while Angel might have awakened Buffy to the mysteries of romance, it was without a doubt Spike that awakened and nourished the first pure gut wrenching, toe curling, biting, clawing, screaming passion that that she ever knew ('cause lord knows Parker and Riley were babes in the woods in that department).

 

[Lou]

Well it DOES show that James is not a woman if he thinks that Spike is the "Boyfriend you ever really want to have". Is he on CRACK? He was supportive and funny and right there in a pinch. Not only did he SEE the best in her, but he reminded her of it ALL THE FREAKING TIME!
Not to mention, he was kind of cute and had a bit of that "danger" side in him.

Besides, how "evil" could Spike have been with a soul. I think James slept through most of Season 6 and all of Season 7

 

[GATEGOD]

Spike and Buffy in Touched is one of the cutest and one of the most beautiful scenes in season 7. This episode in particular really showed how much they cared for one another and in later episode she says she loves him. So if she says she did, then I believe her. The scene when he finds her, comforts her, and stays with her is the clearest moment of true love!

 

[spuffy]

I so agree with you. And it's not just Touched, it's season 7 overall!

 

[Allycat]

I half-agree with you GATEGOD. Those scenes you're referring to are the epitome of the Spuffy-relationship in my opinion, but they don't scream out "True Love" to me. Rather, I feel they're a sign of true friendship.

 

[palabravampiress]

That's an interesting point, Allycat.

Where is the dividing line between love and friendship? Most Bangel fans will own that Buffy and Spike were close friends by the time Spike died. I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins, though.

I would say that my hubby is my best friend. We were getting to be best friends even before we became romantically involved. For us, then, the line between friendship and romance was physical intimacy. The line between that and love was... choice. We chose to agree to spend our lives together. We chose to be loyal to one another and to make each other priorities in our lives. It's not the same for everyone, but that's how it was for me. When we made the relationship romantic and then when we made it permanent, though, we didn't somehow cease to become friends. The friendship was and is a constant.

So I guess what I'm asking here is why do you think Buffy and Spike were just friends? What is it about their actions that indicate to you the presence of a friendly love and the absence of a romantic one?

 

[Joyce Summers]

I think in season 6 it was definitely lust between the two of them with their being an obsessive love on Spike's part but in season 7 it definitely moves into the romantic. Yes there is no outright 'they are a couple' statements or smoochies and it seems to stay on a friendship level physicality wise but I don't think that automatically means there is no romance vibe. As Buffy said 'He is in my heart'.
There was romance there, there was tenderness (definitely in Touched etc), there was friendship, there was love but they had both gotten to a place, both matured to a point where they knew that to be physical with one another so-to-speak would be wrong and impractical. Maybe if they had had longer together or she met a Shanshued Spike things would have worked out differently. But as it was they had to accept that no matter how much they loved one another, too much had happened the previous year for them to couple up again. Add to that the fact that Spike went and got a soul for her sake and these are all very big, big relationship-changing things which essentially forced them to sit back and go 'Okay, let's take a break from the concept of us and just....be'. They were what they were, they didn't even try to label their relationship in season 7 as they themselves were comfortable with what it was. Be it romance or friendship.