Did Buffy love Spike?

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

If sex with Spike = love, I feel sorry for Buffy.

Sex with Spike DOES NOT equal to love. In fact, sex with someone does not equal to love at all. Love is trusting and caring and so much more. It's not all fairytales, either. There's anger and denial and hurt. So yes, Buffy was immature in the fact that she used Spike for sex, but she realizes what she did and he does as well. Me too lazy to retype this post since I have a stack of things to work on, but my explanation is here:
https://buffy-boards.com/showpost.php?p=602116&postcount=126

 

[Enisy]

That's a fantastic point and one that's never really occurred to me before. Are we really expected to believe Buffy looked into Spike's dying eyes and declared via an "I love you" her undying affection when she was sucking face with her (far hotter) ex not 24 hours before? 😀

Shooting script for Chosen:

Angel: Is he your boyfriend?
Buffy: Is that your business?
Angel: Are you in love with him?
Beat. Buffy can't answer.

Not "won't" answer, not "doesn't" answer -- can't answer. So yes, it's perfectly possible that she only cottoned on to it later.

The "platonic love" interpretation is also undermined by all the times that Joss stated they had a "mature" and (key-word) "romantic" relationship in Season 7.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I'm not being 'daft'.

I wouldn't care what I had just done, if the one I loved just died I would not be smiling. Like I said, Buffy would not be smiling if it was Angel.

It's a 'convenience' for you to just say it was handy for the writers.

Oh come ON. Are you trying to tell me that Xander didn't love Anya? Because, that's what you're saying. You honestly believe if this had been any other epsidode, Xander would have been happy enough to leave Anya to die, then smile when he finds out she's already dead?

Right. Ok. Cause, it's not like this has happened before in Buffy. I guess Cordelia had no emotional attachment to Willow and Xander at all, in any way by The Wish? I suppose in Doppelgangland, Giles, Buffy and Xander are exposed for the callous fiends they are when they don't get upset over Willow's "death".

I think it's convenience for you to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore that.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

Oh come ON. Are you trying to tell me that Xander didn't love Anya? Because, that's what you're saying. You honestly believe if this had been any other epsidode, Xander would have been happy enough to leave Anya to die, then smile when he finds out she's already dead?

Right. Ok. Cause, it's not like this has happened before in Buffy. I guess Cordelia had no emotional attachment to Willow and Xander at all, in any way by The Wish? I suppose in Doppelgangland, Giles, Buffy and Xander are exposed for the callous fiends they are when they don't get upset over Willow's "death".

I think it's convenience for you to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore that.

I *never* said that Xander didn't love Anya. Go back and read my posts.

Cordelia hardly had time to cry over them now did she? She was murdered by them.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Oh come ON. Are you trying to tell me that Xander didn't love Anya? Because, that's what you're saying. You honestly believe if this had been any other epsidode, Xander would have been happy enough to leave Anya to die, then smile when he finds out she's already dead?

Right. Ok. Cause, it's not like this has happened before in Buffy. I guess Cordelia had no emotional attachment to Willow and Xander at all, in any way by The Wish? I suppose in Doppelgangland, Giles, Buffy and Xander are exposed for the callous fiends they are when they don't get upset over Willow's "death".

I think it's convenience for you to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore that.

Well said, hun! You deserve 576784596784967849768954 karma for you post. 🙂

 

[Spuffy78]

"Angelness or made him promises of a possible tomorrow where they are together. If Buffy was truly in love she would never had done that."

That's why she went off to Europe and was/is with The Immortal?

 

[DoctorWhovian]

"Angelness or made him promises of a possible tomorrow where they are together. If Buffy was truly in love she would never had done that."

That's why she went off to Europe and was/is with The Immortal?

I'm not brilliant on my Angel trivia, but I dont think that was Buffy, it was a diversion.

 

[Spuffy78]

Watch Angel S5.

My post will make a lot more sense.

 

[InsaneMystic]

DoctorWhovian is right...

Spoiler

"The Girl in Question" was not Buffy, but a double. The real Buffy never was in Rome, the whole episode was a trick Andrew (and, probably, Giles) played on Spike and Angel.

This is established in the S8 comics... if you (like myself) haven't read them and want an overview including the "GIQ" ruse, I recommend this thread by nerd4hire.

EDIT: Thought I'd better spoiler it, as it's S8 information. 😉

 

[4.O.cious Miss]

Re:

These are all personal views on the subject people, not hard fact, so please, don't raise your blood pressure over the issue. It's a TV show...a damn good one...But again, just a show. Everyones opinions will differ and some will be quite the same, but you shouldn't get your panties in a twist about it cause that could get uncomfortable! 😉 MWAH! Love you guys!

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I *never* said that Xander didn't love Anya. Go back and read my posts.

Cordelia hardly had time to cry over them now did she? She was murdered by them.

No, but you said that Buffy cannot have been in love with Spike because she didn't cry, and smiled. Xander had exactly the same reaction as she did - he was proud of her for going down fighting. You simply can't have it both ways.

She was told about their deaths by Harmony before she met them. She had time to show, oh, y'know, a flicker of regret. She didn't. Grief at that point in the episode when the viewer is aware of the fundamental premise would have completley dragged the pacing down.

And you didn't answer about the other example. Actually, you didn't answer at all. Your entire argument seems to be that Buffy couldn't have loved Spike because she didn't cry immediately after his death, just after he had achieved redemption, when she had become connected to every potential in the world, and the First Evil itself had been thwarted.

On the other hand, it's OK for Xander not to cry, even though he loves Anya, even though they were building up to getting back together, and even though he never got to see the body.

Eh?

 

[Kean]

Ok, people lets all take a nice deep cleansing breath, come on...1,2,3 and exhale🙂

We all have our allegiences to characters and ships, we are all invested in this show but remember these boards are for discussion of Buffy and Angel not to argue over who is right and wrong. It's too easy to get sucked in, believe me I have been there but it takes the fun out of being here. Just keep that in mind the next time you post, are you engaging in discussion or trying to prove that black is, infact, white?

 

[PurplePoof]

Shooting script for Chosen:

Angel: Is he your boyfriend?
Buffy: Is that your business?
Angel: Are you in love with him?
Beat. Buffy can't answer.

Not "won't" answer, not "doesn't" answer -- can't answer. So yes, it's perfectly possible that she only cottoned on to it later.

The "platonic love" interpretation is also undermined by all the times that Joss stated they had a "mature" and (key-word) "romantic" relationship in Season 7.

By the same token, the fact she couldn't answer could also mean she really doesn't. Indecision isn't really proof of anything.

I don't choose to see something as right just because Joss said it is. Yes, that may sound ridiculous since he's the creator and has creative control...but the Spuffy stuff was deliberately made ambiguous, and I'll still choose to interpret it as I saw it.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Cordelia hardly had time to cry over them now did she? She was murdered by them.

No, but you said that Buffy cannot have been in love with Spike because she didn't cry, and smiled. Xander had exactly the same reaction as she did - he was proud of her for going down fighting. You simply can't have it both ways.

She was told about their deaths by Harmony before she met them. She had time to show, oh, y'know, a flicker of regret. She didn't. Grief at that point in the episode when the viewer is aware of the fundamental premise would have completley dragged the pacing down.

And you didn't answer about the other example. Actually, you didn't answer at all. Your entire argument seems to be that Buffy couldn't have loved Spike because she didn't cry immediately after his death, just after he had achieved redemption, when she had become connected to every potential in the world, and the First Evil itself had been thwarted.

On the other hand, it's OK for Xander not to cry, even though he loves Anya, even though they were building up to getting back together, and even though he never got to see the body.

Eh?

*huggles you* So glad you're here. 🙂 Your posts always make life interesting. 🙂

 

[DoctorWhovian]

No, but you said that Buffy cannot have been in love with Spike because she didn't cry, and smiled. Xander had exactly the same reaction as she did - he was proud of her for going down fighting. You simply can't have it both ways.

For the last time, I am trying to say that Xander shows his emotions differently.

He didn't cry when it looked like Cordelia was going to die in 'Lovers Walk' did he? He didn't cry over Buffy dying in S1 when he was in love with her.

And you didn't answer about the other example. Actually, you didn't answer at all. Your entire argument seems to be that Buffy couldn't have loved Spike because she didn't cry immediately after his death, just after he had achieved redemption, when she had become connected to every potential in the world, and the First Evil itself had been thwarted.

I have plenty of reasons as to why I don't believe Buffy was in love with Spike.

On the other hand, it's OK for Xander not to cry, even though he loves Anya, even though they were building up to getting back together, and even though he never got to see the body.

Eh?

Like I said, Xander doesn't seem to cry in situations such as these. See above for other examples.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

For the last time, I am trying to say that Xander shows his emotions differently.

He didn't cry when it looked like Cordelia was going to die in 'Lovers Walk' did he? He didn't cry over Buffy dying in S1 when he was in love with her.



I have plenty of reasons as to why I don't believe Buffy was in love with Spike.



Like I said, Xander doesn't seem to cry in situations such as these. See above for other examples.

Firstly: sorry for the completely messed up quotage in my previous post. I didn't even notice.

Now, you can say exactly the same about Buffy. She didn't cry over Joyce until much later. She didn't cry over Willow in Doppelgangland. She had matured immensley since she had been with Angel. Moreover, the situation was entirely different. When Angel died, she was a young teenage girl who had to kill the man she loved. When Spike died, she was a mature woman, who was much more used to the concept of death, who had just watched the man she loved save the world, and who was still reeling from the aftereffects of the spell with the scythe.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

Now, you can say exactly the same about Buffy. She didn't cry over Joyce until much later. She didn't cry over Willow in Doppelgangland. She had matured immensley since she had been with Angel. Moreover, the situation was entirely different. When Angel died, she was a young teenage girl who had to kill the man she loved. When Spike died, she was a mature woman, who was much more used to the concept of death, who had just watched the man she loved save the world, and who was still reeling from the aftereffects of the spell with the scythe.

Buffy threw up when her mother died. For me that's more powerfull than crying.

They wern't suppose to cry in 'Doppelgangland'. This has been said on Imdb. It was suppose to be a funny episode. Buffy was in shock and she said herself that she felt 'numb', so she didn't cry, but was the obviously devestated.

She could have still looked a tiny bit upset over losing Spike.

I'm not sure what Buffy being mature has to do with it. Mature people cry. Being mature does not stop you from crying when the man you're suppose to love dies. Being used to death hardly makes you stop crying when it happens. She was used to death by S5 yet she still cried.

 

[Urgent Power]

Buffy threw up when her mother died. For me that's more powerfull than crying.

They wern't suppose to cry in 'Doppelgangland'. This has been said on Imdb. It was suppose to be a funny episode. Buffy was in shock and she said herself that she felt 'numb', so she didn't cry, but was the obviously devestated.

She could have still looked a tiny bit upset over losing Spike.

I'm not sure what Buffy being mature has to do with it. Mature people cry. Being mature does not stop you from crying when the man you're suppose to love dies. Being used to death hardly makes you stop crying when it happens. She was used to death by S5 yet she still cried.

Um, hello... Buffy was crying during Spike's dying. When she told him she loved him, she was crying. You could actually see the pain in her eyes, the love, the fear of losing him.

About Doppelgangland, yes, it was a funny episode. But inside the show, Buffy should have cried. She didn't, she just blamed herself. There was not much pain on her face, mostly shock. She still felt more pain when Spike was dying, you could see more emotion. I look at both cases, and yes, she took Spike's death alot harder than Willow's.

And Buffy threw up because she felt sick looking at a dead body. At least I think so. I know dead bodies aren't new to her, but I don't see the connection between sadness and vomit.

 

[DoctorWhovian]

Um, hello... Buffy was crying during Spike's dying. When she told him she loved him, she was crying. You could actually see the pain in her eyes, the love, the fear of losing him.

About Doppelgangland, yes, it was a funny episode. But inside the show, Buffy should have cried. She didn't, she just blamed herself. There was not much pain on her face, mostly shock. She still felt more pain when Spike was dying, you could see more emotion. I look at both cases, and yes, she took Spike's death alot harder than Willow's.

And Buffy threw up because she felt sick looking at a dead body. At least I think so. I know dead bodies aren't new to her, but I don't see the connection between sadness and vomit.

Buffy threw up because of the body? You just said yourself she's not new to it, so I highly doubt that was the reason. She threw up because her mother just died.

Buffy was not crying. Show me a screencap of this. She wanted Spike to get out yes, but to me she didn't look all that sad. She accepted him staying pretty easily.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Buffy threw up when her mother died. For me that's more powerfull than crying.

They wern't suppose to cry in 'Doppelgangland'. This has been said on Imdb. It was suppose to be a funny episode. Buffy was in shock and she said herself that she felt 'numb', so she didn't cry, but was the obviously devestated.

She could have still looked a tiny bit upset over losing Spike.

I'm not sure what Buffy being mature has to do with it. Mature people cry. Being mature does not stop you from crying when the man you're suppose to love dies. Being used to death hardly makes you stop crying when it happens. She was used to death by S5 yet she still cried.

Ok, i'm out. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you if you can say that she didn't cry in Doppelgangland because it was "suppose (sic) to be a funny episode", and yet you refuse to accept that the end of Chosen was radically different to any other episode because they couldn't end on a downer.