Did Buffy love Spike?

Ok, i'm out. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you if you can say that she didn't cry in Doppelgangland because it was "suppose (sic) to be a funny episode", and yet you refuse to accept that the end of Chosen was radically different to any other episode because they couldn't end on a downer.

It would hardly be a downer if Buffy had just shed a tear.

It could have been a tear of sadness and joy.

Doppelgangland was suppose to be a funny episode, hence the no crying.

Buffy said she felt numb, so she didn't cry, smile, laugh, anything that meant thinking. She was expressionless. This is how you could tell she was upset.

Watch it again to see.
 
Buffy threw up because of the body? You just said yourself she's not new to it, so I highly doubt that was the reason. She threw up because her mother just died.

Buffy was not crying. Show me a screencap of this. She wanted Spike to get out yes, but to me she didn't look all that sad. She accepted him staying pretty easily.

She wasn't crying? How about this:
Chosen648.jpg

Chosen646.jpg


These are the best I found. But you can clearly see she's crying and upset. When she says I love you to Spike, her crying is even clearer. In these pictures it's just the start, when the tears start forming in her eyes. How can you tell me you don't see any sadness and pain?
 
She wasn't crying? How about this:
Chosen648.jpg

Chosen646.jpg


These are the best I found. But you can clearly see she's crying and upset. When she says I love you to Spike, her crying is even clearer. In these pictures it's just the start, when the tears start forming in her eyes. How can you tell me you don't see any sadness and pain?

Yes her eyes have water in them and to be honest so would mine if I had just been stabbed. She's not crying though. She held it back easily enough.

Yes she does look upset. I'm not disagreeing that she didn't want Spike to die, but I don't think she tried to stop him.

At the end there is no sadness on her face at all. Imo she got over it quickly.
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Edit:
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http://www.screencap-paradise.com/caps/displayimage.php?pid=16339&fullsize=1

^ Her eyes would have still been watering from when she had been stabbed.

She had a sword shoved through her and she continued to fight. That's gotta have an impact.
 
Airam
Airam
I don't ever do the disagree thing but it astounds me how stubborn and just plain unwilling you are to see an ounce of reason or logic in anything anyone else says. YOu find a way to refute EVERYTHING with insane troll logic. And the condescension!
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Wow. I cannot believe that you can't come up with a better explanation than the fact that she's crying 'cause she was.... stabbed.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
We got a Spuffy hater on our hands! lol
^Buffy has been stabbed before. And she is the Slayer! She doesn't go whiney over a fleshwound or a stab. She never did. The tears were because of Spike, and how she felt about the situation. Sad! Her tears didn't flow, but when have they ever? Rarely! And when she finally gives in the cry-orama, she is not in battle. She is alone, secure, without interruptions
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I think Buffy can control her emotions usually. She WAS def crying in Chosen. She did care for Spike and he was dying...of course she was upset. I think it's hilarious that anyone would think she wasn't upset in that scene...lol
Wow. WOW. I cannot believe there are people out there who would actually argue that Buffy was crying from a stab wound just so they can dismiss the emotional intensity of the Spike/Buffy scene. That is obsessive anti-'shipping at its worst, and I don't even know why people are bothering to acknowledge it by presenting counter-arguments. The post might as well have read DSFDSCASDSCUASDC.

Also, you cannot assert that the gang were not depressed over Willow's death in Doppelgangland because it was meant to be a funny episode, without accepting the validity of the argument that Buffy was not depressed over Spike's death in Chosen because it was meant to be a happy ending for her (also confirmed by Joss in the commentary). One might accuse you of a certain something called "double standards".
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Great post hun! :)
Airam
Airam
[No message]
U
Urgent Power
[No message]
Buffy has never had a sword pushed all the way through her stomach now has she?

Surely that would make her eyes water. When she had the stake pushed in her just check out her face.

Do you think she's immune to pain?

I just don't think she was in love with Spike. Here's me thinking this was a place for opinions.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Well, she was stabbed by that 80s hair vamp that one time...no crying involved.
The watering argument is just plain ridiculous! She's been stabbed before. Like in Fool For Love. It was a very painful situation, but she didn't cry. Buffy never cries over physical pain, only heart pain (like me, actually!) So that proves to me that she actually cried becauswe losing Spike was a heartbreaking painful thing.
 
The watering argument is just plain ridiculous! She's been stabbed before. Like in Fool For Love. It was a very painful situation, but she didn't cry. Buffy never cries over physical pain, only heart pain (like me, actually!) So that proves to me that she actually cried becauswe losing Spike was a heartbreaking painful thing.

Hmm, I didn't say that she cries from pain. I said that her eyes watered when she was stabbed. I even posted proof.

Buffy is still human. She feels pain, but has never had a sword pushed all the way through her.
 
-Beaten half to death by Glory
-Beaten half to death by Uber Vamp
-Had Angel suck her dry
-Almost died fighting Faith
-Fighting Dark Willow

I think that kinda proves that being stabbed Wouldn't make her eye's water.
 
I think this whole "How does Buffy express emotion vs. how does she express pain" debate is becoming threadworthy and sort of tangential to the point of this thread. We're spending more time arguing Buffy's common emotional and physical reactions to pain than we are spending arguing about whether or not she eventually grew to love Spike.

As I've already stated, I think she did. I'm not even sure it matters whether she grew to love him in a romantic way or not. I mean, given how she believed in him and helped him in season 7 and then told him she loved him, it's hard to argue that she didn't love him at all, even if you do draw a line between romantic love and other kinds of love. The type of love, though, is less important than the fact that love came about at all. The point is that they loved each other in *any* capacity and that due to that unlikely and oftentimes unhealthy love, they grew and became better, stronger people. It's really beautiful. Whether you like Spuffy or not, I don't know how you can dismiss it. The love that they shared -- whether romantic or not -- gave each other the strength to meet their respective potentials in the end. Spike became a hero. The world opened itself up to Buffy, *Buffy,* who always felt burdened and often was/felt dead. Neither of them would have reached that point without the influence of the other in their lives.

I root for a Bander end game, myself, but I can see how important the Spike/Buffy connection was to the development of those two characters. Given how powerfully and, in the end, how positively it changed them both, I find it short sighted to dismiss it as being something less than love. Their love doesn't mean that they have to end up together. It doesn't have to threaten the potential or the meaning of your favorite relationship. It just means that they loved and helped each other when it counted and that they both turned out better for it.
 
Kana
Kana
Well said
Airam
Airam
[No message]
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
you always say the right thing....except for that bander fixation of yours
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Agree with everything! (Except Bander...)
I just wrote a great, involved piece on the intricacies of the human heart and our capacity for love and all that jazz and it was lost so...

Season 7...I believe it was First Date...Buffy says: " Why does everyone think I'm still in love with Spike?"

Even if she hadn't...yeah, she loved him. It may not be the love that a lot of people idealize and consider what they see as true love but let me tell ya, love does not inhabit the black or white in the spectrum of life. It rules the grey area. Just looking at the last year of my own life I can promise you. I understand this. Yeah. She definitely loved him.

Love makes ya do the wacky...
 
-Beaten half to death by Glory
-Beaten half to death by Uber Vamp
-Had Angel suck her dry
-Almost died fighting Faith
-Fighting Dark Willow

I think that kinda proves that being stabbed Wouldn't make her eye's water.

- She's been beaten up lots of times. The pain is nothing compared to being impaled.

- She collapsed just after.

- Almost died? Hardly.

- Again, she's had worse.

I've had such pain before. Trust me, your eyes would water.

Don't forget that this isn't my 'only argument' like some of you are accusing me of.

I have plently of reasons why I dont think she loved Spike. Me not seeing any emotion at the end of the episode is just a little something I noticed.

At the end of the day it's MY opinion. Don't bash me for not giving into your opinions.
 
- She's been beaten up lots of times. The pain is nothing compared to being impaled.

- She collapsed just after.

- Almost died? Hardly.

- Again, she's had worse.

I've had such pain before. Trust me, your eyes would water.

Don't forget that this isn't my 'only argument' like some of you are accusing me of.

I have plently of reasons why I dont think she loved Spike. Me not seeing any emotion at the end of the episode is just a little something I noticed.

At the end of the day it's MY opinion. Don't bash me for not giving into your opinions.

While I respect your opinion and viewpoint that Buffy wasn't in love with Spike, I find it ridiculous that you think she'd be crying over being impaled. I've never heard an anti-Spuffy bring that up before. It's an illogical and probably one of the most laughable that I've heard during my time as a BTVS fan and my time here on BB. Again with the fact that Buffy isn't quite like the rest of us. Yes, she has emotions and the human package that comes with it, but the pain? She's endured before and I didn't see her bursting into tears all the time. For someone to say that she was crying over the pain of an injury during that moment really shows that you refuse to see the emotion of Buffy and Spike's relationship. *shakes head*
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
You say it! Whoo!
Oh my God...this is hilarious!

People are capable of loving more than one person at a time. And you can never love two people the same way. Not even your children. So why argue it? It has nothing to do with wether or not she loved Spike on some level and arguing semantics is as pointless as denying that love, in some form, existed in the first place. You can't compare. There's no way. So just accept and let it go. She has a big heart and there's room enough for everyone in there. Why is this an issue? Why is it such a threat? Truth is not one of the men in her life have been able to give her what the other could.

We should just resurrect Walsh and she can Frankenstein the boys together and everyone can be happy. : ) Then she can love all of them at once.
 
Airam
Airam
[No message]
While I respect your opinion and viewpoint that Buffy wasn't in love with Spike, I find it ridiculous that you think she'd be crying over being impaled. I've never heard an anti-Spuffy bring that up before. It's an illogical and probably one of the most laughable that I've heard during my time as a BTVS fan and my time here on BB. Again with the fact that Buffy isn't quite like the rest of us. Yes, she has emotions and the human package that comes with it, but the pain? She's endured before and I didn't see her bursting into tears all the time. For someone to say that she was crying over the pain of an injury during that moment really shows that you refuse to see the emotion of Buffy and Spike's relationship. *shakes head*

I've said I don't think she was crying. I didn't see tears rolling down her face. Her eyes watered a little. You try being impaled and see if you don't react.

Plus I even linked a picture to her with tears in her eyes when she was stabbed.
 
I don't know if you guys read season 8. But it's pretty clear that Spike & Angel are her ideal dudes....

Angel & Buffy may be soulmates (ack)
But Spike & Buffy are like...kindred spirits.

And yeah I'd be for Bander too. But I doubt it. They're so close now, it's like bro & sis.
 
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
nice observation!
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
Nicely said! :)
wehappyfew wrote:
Angel & Buffy may be soulmates (ack)
But Spike & Buffy are like...kindred spirits.


I love that idea! You put it perfectly.

And yes, season eight does seem to put Spike and Angel on equal footing, what with the dream/fantasy panel and even in "Anywhere but Here" Buffy's first scenario is about a ruggedly handsome blonde dude (Daniel craig = Spike) and her second scenario is about a ruggedly handsome brunette dude (Christian Bale = Angel).

ya ha - Buffy loved Spike.
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
:) Your post is awesome, and your banner makes me smile. :)
Airam
Airam
LOVE your banner!
I always strongly disagree with the nay sayers who believe Spike and Buffy's relationship was disturbed, wrong, etc, it's just their own. Obviously nobody can really determine what kind of relationship a vampire slayer and a 'cursed' vampire can have, but from what I can decipher they were both very much in love. I never bought Angel and Buffy's "love" as anything more than a first puppy affection; the first boyfriend relationship Buffy was able to have that would less clash with her destiny. (I really can't put that into good enough words, but you know what I mean?) He obviously won't ask her those questions she can't answer and whatnot.
To put it simply yes, I believe Buffy did love Spike. I think their relationship was beyond us and it was beautiful in its own way.
 
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