Did Spike Beat Faith?

[white avenger]

Spike and Faith fought twice in Season 8, in "Dirty Girls," and in "Touched," neither time to any real conclusion, so I want to ask your opinion. If either fight had gone "all the way," who do you think would have won?

I would say Spike, if for no other reason than that Faith was barely back into Slaying since her time in prison. She wasn't at her top form yet, whereas Spike was. Give her another six month or so to get back in shape, and the outcome probably would have been harder to predict.

 

[Vengeance]

I never saw Faith as particularly powerful. Especially considering the events of Destiny where Spike bests Angel, and Angel could probably beat Faith too. Give her some time to train though and I could see Faith winning - I just don't think she ever put a lot of effort into becoming a better fighter.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I never saw Faith as particularly powerful. Especially considering the events of Destiny where Spike bests Angel, and Angel could probably beat Faith too. Give her some time to train though and I could see Faith winning - I just don't think she ever put a lot of effort into becoming a better fighter.

Yeah, I think I agree. Faith was all emotion. Her anger/adrenaline carried her through and she's extra strong, but I don't think she had the skill to beat Spike (or Angel). Given time though, she could become a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I can't recall Buffy and Faith's fight that well, but weren't they pretty even. Then think about how even Spike and Buffy were.

Now, I bet Buffy could take both of them, but considering that they seem pretty even and no more skilled than the other when fighting Buffy (from what I remember) I guess they would be pretty even. Unless their fighting styles is different enough for that to make a difference. Maybe the fight wouldn't be even at all.

I do agree that Faith probably wasn't at the top of her game, but was Spike? He did have that tussle with the demon in Get It Done, but what else? He's been in his crazy-in-the-basement-mood for months, and after the demon-fight, he might have done very little fighting. I can't remember if he seemed like he went out to fight for practise/fun after that.

So all in all, I think it would have been a pretty even fight. Depends on why they were fighting I suppose. I mean neither time were they actually in a I'm-going-to-kill-you-mood (okay, Faith was for a while in Dirt Girls). I think that the one who felt righteous enough, who wanted to win the most, would win.

 

[Eleftheria]

Faith had barely got out of prison and she was forced to fight both the Beast(which was a very strong enemy, too strong even for a Slayer, especially if you didn't know the real way to kill it) and Angelus. She didn't defeat the Beast and she had to poison both herself and Angelus to catch him. So she used a trick there.

She fought amazingly in Angel s4, but she stayed "out of the business" for a long time(was it 3 years?). But Faith always used force and took strength from her anger, plus she really enjoyed the fact that she was a Slayer. So if she had the proper training and followed rules like Buffy usually does she could become a very powerful Slayer.

Spike has some similarities with Faith. He was kind "off the game" like Faith due to his mind situation in s7, he also uses force and enjoys the fact that he is a vampire.

I really don't know. It depends on the situation I guess.If one of the two had to be put down for a reason, the other would do his/her best to win. I would reluctantly say Faith cause we saw that she could stand her ground even when she faced the most difficult enemies.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I think that Faith would've won. After getting his soul, Spike was pretty much getting whooped by everyone. And although Faith wasn't at the top of her game, she's still a slayer, and slayers are stronger than vampires. 😀 (Also, Faith just has this kicka** thing about her, whereas Spike spent a long time trying to reject his fighting side)

 

[Eleftheria]

Skytteflickan88 agrees: What rules do Buffy follow that make her powerful?

Well Buffy trained more than Faith. Even when Giles wasn't her watcher during s4, in s5 she asked his advice again. She wanted to train, to discover her Slayer essence. Faith also trains but she is more about "fun" i think. And also, Faith went for the kill. Killing vamps made her feel good and powerful. That's my opinion.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think that Faith would've won. After getting his soul, Spike was pretty much getting whooped by everyone. And although Faith wasn't at the top of her game, she's still a slayer, and slayers are stronger than vampires. 😀 (Also, Faith just has this kicka** thing about her, whereas Spike spent a long time trying to reject his fighting side)

Skytteflickan88 agrees: Not all slayers. Spike took down two, remember?

Nevermind, you said "stronger" not better at fighting, which I meant, so ignore my comment on your post. As seen with the troll hammer, Buffy is way stronger than Spike, as Buffy is stronger than Angel (mentioned in Ats season 1).

I have to say that I don't know if Faith was in a more kickass mood than Spike in season 7. But normally, they're both just as much about the asskicking, IMO.

 

[dan k]

I think it could have gone either way, would have been an interesting fight. The scene in "Dirty Girls" showed both Spike and Faith getting on top at certain points, no one was dominating the fight.

 

[white avenger]

As seen with the troll hammer, Buffy is way stronger than Spike, as Buffy is stronger than Angel (mentioned in Ats season 1).

I have to say that I don't know if Faith was in a more kickass mood than Spike in season 7. But normally, they're both just as much about the asskicking, IMO.

I'm not really sure that the troll hammer would be a valid test of the characters' relative strength, since it is a mystical weapon, and could, though this is just speculation on my part, be one of those things that can only be lifted or wielded by the person who defeated its previous owner. Again, only speculation.

And as for Faith's mood in "Dirty Girls," she had no way of knowing the real situation there in the cemetery. As far as she knew, she was rescuing a human from a vampire. She obviously knew Spike, but had no idea that he was working for Buffy, or that he had a soul. To her, it was the real thing, so I doubt that she held back very much, if at all. And Spike's "Stop..." (punch) "hitting..." (punch) "me!" (punch) sounded to me more like aggravation than any feeling of being threatened. Also, look at the expression on Faith's face when Spike walked out after their fight in "Touched." That wasn't the expression of someone who had just won a fight, that was more like, "Damn, that guy can hit!"

I'm not going to say that Spike easily beat Faith either time that they fought, but I DO believe that she made the same mistake with him that Buffy did in "School Hard" in Season 2. Spike is too good a fighter to underestimate, and that's exactly what Buffy and Faith both did did. Two other Slayers found that out the hard way, one when he was not very much more than a fledgling.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'd say Faith is physically stronger by a small margin, but Spike is far more agile & resilient. On top of that, Spike's easily one of the most skilled fighters in the Buffyverse, and has a habit of killing Slayers. If it's to the death, Spike hands down.

If it's not to the death, I'd say draw and then Spike. That's because Spike likes to size up his powerful opponents, flee and heal, and then kill them (see Nikki Woods, Buffy, Angel (In the Dark)).

I'd bet on Buffy, Angelus, and Illyria in a straight fight to the death with Spike, but outside of them, I don't think any of the leads would have much of a shot at killing Spike, especially since he has no problem with escaping if the fight doesn't look good.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I'm not really sure that the troll hammer would be a valid test of the characters' relative strength, since it is a mystical weapon, and could, though this is just speculation on my part, be one of those things that can only be lifted or wielded by the person who defeated its previous owner. Again, only speculation.

I know your only speculating, but I don't think there's even a point in mentioning it as that isn't implied at all that thats the case, it came across quite clearly that Buffy was stronger then Spike.

I think in that first fight, Spike would have won, but I'd have Faith for the winner in the second.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Skytteflickan88 agrees: Oh come on, Ilyria would pulverize him. Not sure if she would bother chasing after him, but he would have to "cheat" and use weapons to defeat her.

Think you misread my post. I said Illyria, Buffy or Angelus would beat Spike.

 

[Giantevilhead]

I think everyone is forgetting that Spike was no longer drinking human blood by the time he fought Faith. Even assuming that human blood doesn't make vampires stronger than pig blood, it still makes them more predatory and aggressive. Without human blood, Spike wouldn't have the instincts he had when he killed the other two Slayers.

 

[crazysoulless]

I agree that Buffy is the best and strongest fighter out of Angel, Spike, and Faith. She has won against each of them.

I think that Spike would have won against Faith, especially in that second fight because he was defending Buffy's honor. Spike could hold his own against Angel(us) while Faith couldn't and had to resort to poisoning herself. While Spike could get his ass kicked by Buffy he could at least last longer in a fight with her than Faith could. Spike fights more like Buffy; martial arts and instincts mixed with improvisation. Faith knew some martial arts but she was more about brute force and maximizing her Slayer powers.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I think everyone is forgetting that Spike was no longer drinking human blood by the time he fought Faith. Even assuming that human blood doesn't make vampires stronger than pig blood, it still makes them more predatory and aggressive. Without human blood, Spike wouldn't have the instincts he had when he killed the other two Slayers.

You're confusing the Buffyverse with Blade. Buffy's a little blond White girl, Blade is the muscular Black man :biggrin3:

Only evidence we have is Wesley saying human blood is "thicker" and provides more sustenance in smaller quantities.

The fact that Angel and Spike remain far stronger than the average vamp, even on pig & otter blood shows that if there is a difference, it's negligible.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------

I agree that Buffy is the best and strongest fighter out of Angel, Spike, and Faith. She has won against each of them.

I think that Spike would have won against Faith, especially in that second fight because he was defending Buffy's honor. Spike could hold his own against Angel(us) while Faith couldn't and had to resort to poisoning herself. While Spike could get his ass kicked by Buffy he could at least last longer in a fight with her than Faith could. Spike fights more like Buffy; martial arts and instincts mixed with improvisation. Faith knew some martial arts but she was more about brute force and maximizing her Slayer powers.

I wouldn't say Buffy's the best fighter, just the strongest. Angel's far more resilient than Buffy, it's not even close. I think Buffy & Angel are about equals in terms of fighting prowess...

 

[crazysoulless]

Buffy doesn't rely on her physical strength as much as the others do. Every fight that Buffy has had with Angel, she has won. She was a better swordfighter (Becoming #2) and beat him at hand to hand in Innocence and Passion and she learns rather quickly (could shoot arrows with perfect aim after one afternoon of practice). I think that they are evenly matched in other areas, such as the fact that they can both catch arrows mid-air.

 

[white avenger]

Agreed, Angel and Spike are stronger than the average vampire, but when I say that, I mean that they are stronger FIGHTERS, not that they could necessarily win a weight lifting contest. The same thing goes, I think, for Buffy, Faith, or any other Slayer. The Slayers would PROBABLY be stronger than the average vampire, but then there are exceptionally strong vamps like Luke, Kokistos, probably the Master, and almost certainly others who Buffy just hasn't run into yet. Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Angel win their fights because of their superior SKILL more than brute strength. Or, as Master Po would have said, "Remember, Grasshopper, strength without skill only succeeds in breaking its own back."

 

[crazysoulless]

We really don't know what Faith could be capable of since we were witness to A LOT more of Buffy's fighting scenes throughout the years since the series revolves around Buffy's journey. Do you think that Faith can throw a stake or a wooden pole into a vampire's heart? We've seen Buffy do this in The Freshman, Into the Woods, & As You Were. Knowing things like that would make the question of who would win (Spike or Faith) easier.

 

[white avenger]

We really don't know what Faith could be capable of since we were witness to A LOT more of Buffy's fighting scenes throughout the years since the series revolves around Buffy's journey. Do you think that Faith can throw a stake or a wooden pole into a vampire's heart? We've seen Buffy do this in The Freshman, Into the Woods, & As You Were. Knowing things like that would make the question of who would win (Spike or Faith) easier.

As far as that goes, Spike could stand off half a mile and get both Faith AND Buffy, and all of the Scoobies for good measure, with a Barrett .50 sniper rifle, but I was thinking more of a straight out toe to toe fists and fangs slug it out sort of fight than having anyone using weapons other than what would be appropriate for hand to hand fighting.