Did Spike Beat Faith?

Hmm, fun discussion. Someone should give Deadliest Warrior a call, 'cause I'd watch that episode 🙂
 
white avenger
white avenger
Maybe they could do a whole series. Slayer vs vampire. Vampire vs werewolf. Werewolf vs Suvolte.
I haven't got into S8 comics yet (finally slogging thru S7 on dvd just picked it up few weeks back).

but yea faith never looked to me to be to much of a technical fighter. more of a 'pummel pummel pummel' with no real finnese.

not that spike isn't more a street brawler than anything else with his fighting style i just think that simply given faiths (relative) inexperience as a slayer/time off etc. that spike would thrash her if he decided he needed to.
 
I would say that Spike would probably win. Whereas the Slayers that Spike killed or even Kendra all had the weakness of being far too focused on technical skill that they lacked the passion to improvise, Faith was the exact opposite in that she never really had much technical skill and was too focused on sheer passion that she'd probably be just as easy to exploit as the past Slayers. In his prime, Spike was darn near unbeatable; not only was he passionate in his fighting, but he was also very methodical in studying his opponents so that he was ready for whatever they threw at him. Don't forget that the only time he and Buffy really ever fought fought one-on-one to the death with no advantage on either side (School Hard), Spike beat Buffy rather quickly and she was only saved by Joyce's intervention. Couple that with the fact that Spike in Angel season 5 was so intense about fighting that he even beat Angel in a fight to the finish, and Spike's definitely looking like an incredible fighter. Now I'm not saying that season 7 Buffy couldn't defeat Spike (at that point she probably could), but Faith probably would've come out on the short end had the two ever truly fought to the death.
 
I blame Buffy losing in School Hard on cramps. She was on her period! ha ha

Spike, Harmony, Xander, & Angel all referred to the fact that Buffy could kick Spike's butt. It was only that first fight that seemed to go in his favor which sometimes happens with Buffy. She doesn't completely bring her A game during her first encounter with Big Bads or gets too confident and leaves her guard down too much.

I agree that Faith was more passion and less technical. Kendra was more technical and less passion. Nikki was in the middle. Buffy was great at the passion and the technical.
 
E
Eleftheria
very nice descritption about passion and technique
Agreed, Angel and Spike are stronger than the average vampire, but when I say that, I mean that they are stronger FIGHTERS, not that they could necessarily win a weight lifting contest.
I don't know, look at Connor as the barometer, he was at least as strong as a random vamp, yet on sheer strength alone, Angel put him down (Angel was hallucinating and couldn't even through a punch or kick at the time. Through shoving he still dominated Connor).

The same thing goes, I think, for Buffy, Faith, or any other Slayer. The Slayers would PROBABLY be stronger than the average vampire, but then there are exceptionally strong vamps like Luke, Kokistos, probably the Master, and almost certainly others who Buffy just hasn't run into yet. Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Angel win their fights because of their superior SKILL more than brute strength. Or, as Master Po would have said, "Remember, Grasshopper, strength without skill only succeeds in breaking its own back."
For some unknown reason, Buffy said that Fray is physically stronger than her...

The Master's definitely stronger than a Slayer. He dominated Angelus in a fight which no one except for the Beast managed to do.
 
For some unknown reason, Buffy said that Fray is physically stronger than her...

No real shock there. Things would become downright boring if Buffy was always the strongest, the fastest, the most skilled fighter in the entire series. There would be no real challenge for her. It would really be surprising if Faith WEREN'T stronger, considering the things that she could do before even being Called. As a thief, in the society in which she lived, she had to be for all practical purposes, an acrobat, a martial artist, a rock (or wall) climber, a marksman, and almost certainly many other things, just to survive and enjoy a certain degree of success. Before Buffy was called, she was a cheerleader. Not a sedentary occupation, to be sure, but certainly less intense on the worst day that anything Fray did on her most quiet days. It stands to reason that, given the differences in their lifestyles before being Called, Fray, who was bigger, stronger, faster, more agile, and, a more experienced fighter, would retain that same degree of superiority as the Slayer.
 
You're confusing the Buffyverse with Blade. Buffy's a little blond White girl, Blade is the muscular Black man :biggrin3:

Only evidence we have is Wesley saying human blood is "thicker" and provides more sustenance in smaller quantities.

The fact that Angel and Spike remain far stronger than the average vamp, even on pig & otter blood shows that if there is a difference, it's negligible.

Angel was much more aggressive with only a few drops of Connor's blood in his pig's blood.
 
No real shock there. Things would become downright boring if Buffy was always the strongest, the fastest, the most skilled fighter in the entire series. There would be no real challenge for her. It would really be surprising if Faith WEREN'T stronger, considering the things that she could do before even being Called. As a thief, in the society in which she lived, she had to be for all practical purposes, an acrobat, a martial artist, a rock (or wall) climber, a marksman, and almost certainly many other things, just to survive and enjoy a certain degree of success. Before Buffy was called, she was a cheerleader. Not a sedentary occupation, to be sure, but certainly less intense on the worst day that anything Fray did on her most quiet days. It stands to reason that, given the differences in their lifestyles before being Called, Fray, who was bigger, stronger, faster, more agile, and, a more experienced fighter, would retain that same degree of superiority as the Slayer.

Joss once said that Buffy was special, even for a Slayer. The quote was something along the lines of there's a reason why the show follows Buffy instead of the hundreds of other Slayers. In hindsight, he was probably eluding to Buffy & Angel's "twilight" destiny.

Buffy's nowhere near the best fighter in the 'verse. Outside of the vamps you named that were at least stronger, she's been weaker than all of the Big Bads except for Angelus, and even there, if you count the three as S2's Big Bad, Buffy wouldn't last a minute against all three of them.

Then you have Caleb, the Beast, Hamilton, Illyria, all of whom would demolish Buffy without special weapons or magicks.

Angel was much more aggressive with only a few drops of Connor's blood in his pig's blood.

Connor's not human.
 
Connor's not human.

He's more human than Hamilton and maybe even Buffy but Hamilton and Buffy's blood didn't make Angel more aggressive.

Also, Wesley saying that human blood was more substantial than pig's blood wasn't the only evidence suggesting that human blood is better than pig's blood. In "Deep Down," the episode when Wesley said that, Wesley specifically said that Angel was too far gone to be healed by pig's blood and had to give Angel his own blood.
 
He's more human than Hamilton and maybe even Buffy but Hamilton and Buffy's blood didn't make Angel more aggressive.
Connor's not human.

Also, Wesley saying that human blood was more substantial than pig's blood wasn't the only evidence suggesting that human blood is better than pig's blood. In "Deep Down," the episode when Wesley said that, Wesley specifically said that Angel was too far gone to be healed by pig's blood and had to give Angel his own blood.
Hence more nutritious, as I said. I didn't say anything more, neither did Wes.
 
Connor's not human.

Neither was Hamilton and Angel didn't go berserk when he drank from him.

Hence more nutritious, as I said. I didn't say anything more, neither did Wes.

So you're saying that someone who's malnourished should be as strong as someone who's getting good nutrition?
 
B
Buffyverse Fan
You're laughibly hostile on a friendly board (well, since BS took care of all the angry folks with the big B-A-N) :)
Neither was Hamilton and Angel didn't go berserk when he drank from him.
His power level skyrocketed

So you're saying that someone who's malnourished should be as strong as someone who's getting good nutrition?
I'm thinking concentration. Think, the caloric content of a tangerine vs. a grapefruit. You'll receive more calories from 1 grapefruit, but if you eat a greater volume of tangerines it can equal out.
 
His power level skyrocketed

Angel drank a lot of Hamilton's blood. There were only a few drops of Connor's blood in his pig blood.

Also, the gang assumed that Angel's change in behavior was due to him drinking human blood before Angel realized that it was Connor's blood. Plus they had always assumed that Connor was human. They didn't even find out that Connor wasn't human until he was repelled by the anti-demon violence spell in "Release." In fact, they were all surprised when the anti-demon spell worked on Connor.

I'm thinking concentration. Think, the caloric content of a tangerine vs. a grapefruit. You'll receive more calories from 1 grapefruit, but if you eat a greater volume of tangerines it can equal out.

Except that Wesley showed that it wasn't just concentration when he said that pig's blood wouldn't be able to heal Angel from 3 months of starvation. Wesley couldn't heal Angel by giving him more pig's blood, he had to Angel his own blood.

Also, nutrition isn't just a matter of calories, there's proteins, vitamins, minerals, etc., as well. The difference between pig's blood and human blood is probably more like the difference between plain bread and a sandwich. Bread can sustain a person indefinitely but it lacks all the nutrients you would find in a sandwich.
 
It's never been established as to just how much blood it takes to sustain a vampire. One vampire can take so much blood from its victim that they will die from blood loss, or, at best, a pint or so from Wes' wrist can revive Angel after he's been starving for months. The most pig's blood that we ever see Angel or Spike drink at a time is a cupful, and they don't even do that very often. The point being that there has never been any kind of consistency as to just how much blood or how often a vampire requires it to sustain them, so at best we can only guess, but, since it has been established that human blood is more nutritious than animal's blood, I would assume that the same principal would apply there as would apply to a normal human. If pig's blood doesn't have as many "calories," for want of a better word, as human blood does, the most simple solution would be that Spike and Angel have to drink larger quantities than if the were using what Spike referred to as "the real stuff." Therefore, at some point off screen, they must drink huge quantities of it.
 
But the fact that Wesley had to use his own blood to heal Angel rather than giving him more pig's blood showed that it wasn't just a matter of quantity. Wesley pretty much said that pig blood wouldn't help Angel.

Also, when Wolfram & Hart spiked Angel's pig blood with Connor's blood, the gang attributed Angel's more aggressive behavior to him drinking human blood before Angel realized that it was Connor's blood. Even then, they had always assumed that Connor was human until the events of "Release." That means human blood makes vampires more aggressive and predatory than pig blood.
 
It's never been established as to just how much blood it takes to sustain a vampire. One vampire can take so much blood from its victim that they will die from blood loss, or, at best, a pint or so from Wes' wrist can revive Angel after he's been starving for months. The most pig's blood that we ever see Angel or Spike drink at a time is a cupful, and they don't even do that very often. The point being that there has never been any kind of consistency as to just how much blood or how often a vampire requires it to sustain them, so at best we can only guess, but, since it has been established that human blood is more nutritious than animal's blood, I would assume that the same principal would apply there as would apply to a normal human. If pig's blood doesn't have as many "calories," for want of a better word, as human blood does, the most simple solution would be that Spike and Angel have to drink larger quantities than if the were using what Spike referred to as "the real stuff." Therefore, at some point off screen, they must drink huge quantities of it.

Yeah, completely agree. Actually, now that you mention it, that would be a pretty hilarious scene: Spike & Angel in the break room with gallon drums of blood and twisty straws, doubt even Buffy could find that attractive 😀

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

Also, nutrition isn't just a matter of calories
white avenger and I were using calories as an example.

But the fact that Wesley had to use his own blood to heal Angel rather than giving him more pig's blood showed that it wasn't just a matter of quantity. Wesley pretty much said that pig blood wouldn't help Angel.
Ever been to a hospital? Concentration is everything.

Angel drank a lot of Hamilton's blood. There were only a few drops of Connor's blood in his pig blood.
Hamilton's not human. Connor's not human.

In fact, they were all surprised when the anti-demon spell worked on Connor.
Because Connor's not human.

Also, when Wolfram & Hart spiked Angel's pig blood with Connor's blood, the gang attributed Angel's more aggressive behavior to him drinking human blood before Angel realized that it was Connor's blood. Even then, they had always assumed that Connor was human until the events of "Release." That means human blood makes vampires more aggressive and predatory than pig blood.
Connor's not human.
 
Yeah, completely agree. Actually, now that you mention it, that would be a pretty hilarious scene: Spike & Angel in the break room with gallon drums of blood and twisty straws, doubt even Buffy could find that attractive 😀

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------


white avenger and I were using calories as an example.

It's an oversimplified example that ignores the fact that nutrition consists of dozens of different elements.

Your original analogy was that human blood was more nutritious than pig blood. Following that logic, it would be reasonable to assume that human blood possesses certain nutrients that pig blood does not or possess them in much greater quantities than pig blood.

Ever been to a hospital? Concentration is everything.

You're assuming that human physiology applies to demons. Vampires can live indefinitely without blood, humans cannot live indefinitely without food, oxygen, or water. Higher concentrations of nutrients are needed for humans because weakened human bodies are less able to process lower concentrations. Vampires don't have that problem. A vampire's body can continue to process blood regardless of how long they've gone without it since their bodies don't degrade in the same way as humans. In fact, as mentioned before, they're immortal with or without blood.

Hamilton's not human. Connor's not human.


Because Connor's not human.


Connor's not human.

What you don't seem to understand is that the characters thought that Angel became more aggressive because he was drinking human blood before they found out that it was Connor's blood and way before they found out that Connor wasn't human. Why would they simply assume that Angel became more aggressive because he was drinking human blood if human blood doesn't have a different effect on vampires than pig blood?
 
Back
Top Bottom